No wonder there's such intense debate.

On one hand the numbers are okay - 9W/8L , but on the other hand we play shit football quite often.

The top four are way way ahead of the rest.

Sugarcoating the fact that we're currently 7th so everything's rosy is just old school StKilda thinking.

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There's so much I could say...

Its not sugercoating. Some of us think 7th/8th is about where we should be. We are a young developing side. Our players in the 25 -30 bracket are not as good as players in that bracket for the top 3 or 4 teams. When our young guns are approaching or in that bracket we will be a top side. Until then enjoy watching us develop.

Those who expect more are hoping for a miracle. If miracles are what you are after then i agree Ratts is not your man.

Thats assuming noone else improves right???

The really weird aspect about how people here think is that some people believe were the only team thats trying to improve.....

The reality is for us to improve we have to improve by more than everybody else...

The passive improvement is getting us nowhere.

They know were coming....!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

...Very good post. That's exactly how I feel about the situation but I would aply it to recruiting as well - you know what I'm like.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I keep seeing players falling to ground (not slipping)... players who have been in the system long enough to know better. Why?? Why is it still happening??

I continue to see players who are leading into space being ignored for an easier 'kick to contest' option. Why??

And I keep seeing players handballing and kicking to the wrong side of a leading player rather than disposing into the leading space? Why??

They're some of the most basics of football that should be mastered first and we're shi#*ouse at them.

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There's so much I could say...

Robert Walls just said on 3AW that Ratten is coming under fire that questions being asked if he has the tactical smarts from the coaches box. He went on to say Ratts needs the rest of the year and next and then a decision must be made on him.

That makes sense. Ratts is coming under fire and at the end of next year a decision must be made on him. The criticism is good if at can help him to improve.

Some goon who cant handle not getting his ideal (as pie in the sky as it may be) will get a partition up and running before then though.

I think somewhere between 5th and 8th is about right considering where we're at but that doesn't mean I'm content with the way we're playing.

What's frustrating is that I can switch on the tv and watch 10 to 12 other teams and instantly understand what it is that their players are trying to do. I may not agree with their style of play in terms of its chances of winning a flag but it's clear what they're doing.

I watched Carlton on Friday night and I couldn't work it out at all. That's what I see when I watch some of the bottom teams in the league. Or junior football.

I'm not suggesting that lack of direction's constant; there have been times this year when I've loved watching us play. The problem is there are far too many times our players seem to be completely lacking in any understanding of what each other is doing or meant to be doing.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

agreed

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Are the boys playing for the coach?

have you ever played team sports?

becuase i can tell you, you dont play team sports for the coach, you play it for the bloke along side you, the bloke who goes in to defend you, the bloke who you will defend.

a coach is simply a vessel to help you do that.

talk all you want about playing for the shirt etc, playing for the coach ... its all rubbish.

whilst respect and effort should be shown towards both the coach, club and jumper, the reason people play footy, its for the team. end of story.

why is it, melvey, that players rate winning a premiership higher than the brownlow?

will give you a hint, its not becasue they did for their coach

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

We're not talking about running around at your local with mates here. To underestimate the value a senior coach at AFL level is absurd

I have to admit I agree with what most posters are saying about there not appearing to be any sort of a plan but if we go back 12 months Saints supporters were screaming the same thing 12 months before that it was Hawks questioning what the he'll were they doing and before Geelong started on their winning run questions were being asked of them

I hope (synners favorite word) that we are the same

I know in my own mind that they have not always selected the best side to win the game they have appeared to sacrifice wins in order to get game time into players who are not quite up to it

maybe outwardly they have stated that it finals or failure but inwardly it has been all about getting players up and assessing where some of them are at

There are two side to a football team the marketing and the playing maybe each department has a different agenda

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

there is one side to a footy team.. the side that goes out each week and its all about performance.

clubs are focusses on how that side performs.

they are striving at improving that side and give themselves every opportunity to win flags.

they should be employing the very best people money and brains could buy to make this end result tangible.

if theyre not doing this... the side is not performing to the best of its potential and the club is not doing everything it can to make it happen.

we have a massive problem.... we just dont have the best people possible to do the job...

part of the reason why some things are unprofessional is because at the very top in footy clubs often theyre run by people that do not always have the right mix of footy knowledge and business knowledge...

i reckon pratt did well up till the appt of swann... but there was too much shadow of a boys club that was still lingering which means the decions will be wrongfully influenced...and with pratt gone... swann now has nowhere really to appeal if the original plan is backfiring....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I still find it absurd that Collingwood is being issued as the gold standard... that's like holding up Adelaide of two years ago for the same reasons. I don't see the premiership cabinet getting larger, just the press bouncing in their chairs because they keep making the eight, and making up the numbers.

That's a system, a system built on placing higher value on physical and mental maturity than game breaking ability. We all saw where that's taken the Crows; they've gone back to the drawing board to an extent, and that's working for them better than ever.

Why? Because they've forgone the foot soldier/intensely tactical attitude because it stifles an individuals flair and creativity within the contest. May not necessarily snuff it out, but it really does work hard on suppressing it.

If that is really what people want, a bunch of drones who run through a closed system of tactical execution, then by all means, strike up another petition and go get the pitchforks.

But if you'd prefer to see some exciting football played by footballers, who under the intense pressure of finals football can go that extra gear (anyone seen Adelaide or Collingwood do that lately?), then sit back and understand it will be a slower process than getting a kid and giving him a ridiculously simple role; only refining the skills necessary instead of rounding out his game.

You can see it happening to the Dons now; suddenly creative types are playing on the HB running the lines and doing the high percentage plays. That's great maybe 85% of the time, but if it's going to work when it really matters, that other 15% is going to be full of moments where players have to deviate from their usual set of options.

I look at the Dons, the Pies and the Crows, and I sit back and ask myself, who are the versatile players?

It's a bloody short list, let me tell you.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I have kept away from this topic so far but the first time I am beggining to question whether Ratten is the right person for the job.
We showed improvement last year and this year was always going to be the big test as the whether we are really on the way up or not. Individual players have shown improvement-this is due to natural progression and to the new development academy we have put in place. On the other hand many players have levelled off and others have fallen away, Stevens and Scotland being two of these. I feel we have not improved as a team, I was more confident of winning games last year than I am this year.
I am still unsure what our game plan actually is. I understand wanting to find other ways of kicking goals other than Fev, but the reality is we do rely on him and have little if any other options. We cannot handle being put under pressure as was evident on Friday night.
Ratten seems to be too reactive whereas we should be proactive and let other teams worry about what we are doing not the other way around. After matches his press conferences are just quoting stats and numbers, maybe he is making it more complicated than is should be.
I loved Ratten as a player and I just hope he will always be remembered for the right reasons, being a premiership player, captain and best and fairest winner not for being a failed coach.

There was a small statistic out of Friday nights game that is a strong idicator that there is something radically wrong with the Ratten Coaching Regime.


COLLINGWOOD HAD 73 BOUNCES FOR THE MATCH- AN AFL RECORD


The lack of tackling pressure due to

(a)- inability to read a game when to contest and when to fill the zone
(b)- lack of fitness
(c)- lack of commitment
(d)- poor coaching direction or tactics, set up etc.

Whichever way you cut this "73 Bouncë" statistic its a strong indicator of a poorly coached side

The problem is that all of those coaches had a long run as assistants.

Lyon was assistant under Roos when they won the flag - so you'd say he was probably at the cutting edge of coaching/tactics etc.

Clarkson had coached I think 3 premierships for Central Districts while also being assistant to Williams in their premiership year - he may have departed coaching before the finals due to applying for the Hawthorn job.

Thompson was an assistant under Pagan in their 99 premiership while also being an assistant for 3 years at Essendon*.

With regard to Adelaide - they realised they needed to be more attacking and decided to change the way they played - more risky handball out of defence...initially they made mistakes and coughed it up but they've got better at it with time.

We seem more intent on a kick-mark approach however at stages of the year when we've run the ball we look very good. IMO we're terrible at the kick-mark approach because we are unable to make space for players to lead in to, the players who should be leading into any space don't have the mobility to get off their opponent and when there is space our players don't spread hard enough to get there.

And that is only considering when we're trying to attack. Defensively our zone doesn't push up the ground, we allow players to stroll out from kickouts and also don't seem to have players smart enough or players who haven't been instructed to drop in front of leading forwards.

The position of our defenders/midfielders seems to be easily manipulated so that space can open up...I'm yet to see much indication of us being able to make space besides pushing Fev up the ground...the defenders then just sit back and pick off our kicks inside 50. I know it will take time because of how far back we've come from but we should be making more of our entries inside 50.

So then you have to look at our assistants and ask have they had the experience under successful coaches? Doesn't mean to say we should get Hafey because he'd been successful but can we afford to use a season to let Ratten learn?

Ratten may end up being one of the best coaches of all time but should we be settling for having a learning coach?

Why shouldn't we strive to have better coaching staff whether that be assistants or the senior coach?

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I still say there are 2 sides to a football team and there are two ways of defining a successful football club . The marketing department pumped the side up above expectations resulted in record membership and masses of supporters turning out each week
Winning football games doesn't lead to a successful club Port and the swans are good examples of that . If the club is going to be able to source and afford the best it needs the off field right first and this year that side of the club has won their premiership

We have read post after post of why are we so defencive why so negative why are we turning everyone over 190 cm into a defender well there us a good reason for this and that is for the past 7 or so years we have had the worst defence in the 100 odd year history of the club it has been our Achilles heel for several years now That side of the football team has almost been fixed

They are working on the midfield still need hardness in there

the forward line is a major worry but despite that we are the 3rd highest scoring side in the comp

what needs to happen is to get all of these sections working as one

that clearly isn't happening

Ratts might not be the man but one thing for sure going into a game each week thinking that we should win this is a lot better than knowing you are going to get flogged
At least now if they lose you are disaapointed after the loss in years gone by you were disappointed before the game had even started

We have gone from hoping to win to expecting to win that has to be a step forward

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Melvey as previously quoted you obviously have never played a team sport. If you knew anything about what Scott is talking about you would know that he is talking just like it is. Sure coaches are important but players don't play for the coach. They can respect the coach, they can like or doislike him but they play for thier mates which is the team

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Go BLues