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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bagger wrote:
After reading most of the 45 pages regarding Ratts coaching I believe that many of the observations regarding his performance are taken out of context.

Now I'm happy to admit that Ratts may not be responsible for everything that has gone right, but given that his detractors hold him responsible for everything that goes wrong in the football department, I'm happy to credit him with the things that have gone right.


In my experience, any team that has under-performed for a long time will have developed certain characteristics, the team culture will be poor, their processes (game plan) will be weak and more often than not the group will be fractured with many cliques. In the corporate world this can be corrected more quickly, but in the AFL with your recruitment processes controlled by an outside agency I believe it takes a minimum of 3 years.

Anyway the process that need to followed has 3 main steps.

Culture (phase / year 1)

I think we have made huge strides in this area, the footy department has concentrated on improving the support network that the players have, with new fitness team, medical staff, specialist coaches, etc. Simultaneously making it easier for the players to do their job and removing any excuses they have for presenting themselves in less than peak condition.

I believe that we have made progress towards becoming a single cohesive team membership, the MC have been providing some of the younger guys with opportunities and many of them have spoken in interviews of their belief that hard work will be rewarded. (something that was not the case previously)

Training intensity is 10 times better than it was 3 -4 years ago and the players presented themselves in excellent condition at the start of the year.

Goals have been set, the team understands that finals are expected, the football department seems united and even our recruiting seems more purposeful in the last couple of years (Maybe Cazzes can comment).

All in all I think we can consider this phase to be a success.

Team member management (phase / year 2)

At this stage it is important to work on the processes (Game plan) that simply don't work or encourage bad habits, and present the team with new ways to achieve success.

Unfortunately with any team that has been under-performing for a long time some members will have developed a siege mentality and will be highly resistant to the changes in the processes and culture. It is important to break this down, but it must be done gradually and carefully or else you run the risk of fracturing the new team unity and culture.

You need to provide these people with every opportunity, but if you can't educate them, you need to manage them out of the organisation

I think this is where we are now.

1. Wiggo and Cloaky were provided chances early, and once it became obvious that they were not up to it they were replaced in the team, without much fuss
2. Our new young backline has been established and Thorton now finds himself relegated from key position player, to a sweeping role.
3. Fev has been trasnitioned from our Key focal point, to a more team oriented games with a focus on the defensive aspects.
4. Stevo and Scotty have now been dropped after numerous chances to repair the defensive side of their games.

All in all I think this transition is going well, I fear that if the above players cannot adapt to the changes that must take place, they could find themselves delisted or trade bait at the end of the year.

Process refinement (phase / year 3)

Once all the organisational, personal and personell have been sorted out, it is important to review and tighten all of the processes surrounding the team, to the point where success is almost a given as long as everyone does their part and follows the process.

At this stage it becomes easy to transition new members into the team as the older members leave, and it is now that we have a team that is setup for sustained success. I think that this is next year, when I would expect to be pushing a top 4 spot, on the back of better understanding and execution of Ratts gameplan.

All in all I think that Ratts is doing a fine job at repairing the damage that had previously been done and building a team that is positioned for long team success.

Anyway my two cents

Bagger


That's all very good but where is your knee jerk reaction, where is your desire for instant gratification, where is your mind numbing misunderstanding of the modern game and all it takes to reach the top, where is your blinkered view on CFC that is swayed by the visual media and talkback radio ....................where is it all I ask you :?: :?: :?: .

You'll never last :wink:

Regards Cazzesman

PS. Welcome :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:04 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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I would highly recommend everyone reads james hird's article in today's herald sun. Provides some great insights into coaching and development


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:10 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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Location: Nth Fitzroy
in8 wrote:
I would highly recommend everyone reads james hird's article in today's herald sun. Provides some great insights into coaching and development


Yep great article. I will take Hirds word over those in this thread unhappy that Ratts hasnt performed a miracle.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
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MarkNo3 wrote:
Keogh you call me screwy becuase I highlighted your Livo thread where I believe you refer to the fact their is hidden talent yet all you do is harp back on the same name and one that is made with hindsight not foresight. Ive thrown a name in for you how about you try and spot some talent. Actually I throw another name up for you - Kershaw - already plays in the right colours somewhere in this great land of ours. In fact I can keep throwing name up for you try Guthrie.

Heres a tip - if you spot a good kid email his details, detailing his positive and negative attributes etc to our recruiters or to someone who works with them. Far better to actually do something positive for a change than whinning.



Whats wrong with whinging
Lets see how those 2 spuds go tomorrow
And I can whinge as much as I want
Thanks very much :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Seems like this thread needs a new name like "Its becoming very clear that Ratten could still be the man, just give him time"

Which is what it should have been all along.

I guess the name change comes about IMO by the strong argements put by most of the posters

and


The recent absense of a couple of posters.

Wonder who they could be :grin:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:57 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/ ... ink_again/

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Rats just gave Sticks a copy of this article. Sticks has just extended Rats contract for another 2 years on top of the other 2 year extension. The seat in the box is not up for auction until 2014.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:11 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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in8 wrote:
I would highly recommend everyone reads james hird's article in today's herald sun. Provides some great insights into coaching and development


Yeah/Nah. James is P 1 5ing into the breeze. He's beating this Coaching lark up abit me thinks. It's all a snap, dead easy and as simple as dotting an I and crossing a T. No need for all this schooly type stuff. It's not rocket science. You just get a footy and kick it around the park to your mates.

Then again..............................................................If a budding Coach like James says it.......... maybe................................just maybe it has some merit................................................maybe. :wink:

Still if Ratts team doesn't beat the Tigers by 20 goals he will be seen as useless by many...........................and yet if he does beat them by 20 gls he will still be seen as useless because the Tigers are useless and he should have beat them by 25 gls and the games was a complete waste of everyones time. :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Cazzesman wrote:
in8 wrote:
I would highly recommend everyone reads james hird's article in today's herald sun. Provides some great insights into coaching and development


Yeah/Nah. James is P 1 5ing into the breeze. He's beating this Coaching lark up abit me thinks. It's all a snap, dead easy and as simple as dotting an I and crossing a T. No need for all this schooly type stuff. It's not rocket science. You just get a footy and kick it around the park to your mates.

Then again..............................................................If a budding Coach like James says it.......... maybe................................just maybe it has some merit................................................maybe. :wink:

Still if Ratts team doesn't beat the Tigers by 20 goals he will be seen as useless by many...........................and yet if he does beat them by 20 gls he will still be seen as useless because the Tigers are useless and he should have beat them by 25 gls and the games was a complete waste of everyones time. :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

Regards Cazzesman


Remember, we have the worst half back line in history.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:34 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Great post Bagger :clap:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Cazzesman wrote:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/thestars/index.php/heraldsun/comments/think_again/

Regards Cazzesman


Thanks for the link. An interesting article. Talks about just how long it takes to set the framework up. The last part in particular is relevant in how to view a coach's work.

"Coaches will always be in charge of a football team and the way it plays, but coaches who give their players a framework to play in, train their players to play in the framework and can trust the players on the ground to make the right decision, are the ones who get the most out of their teams. "

Some say he can't get the most, some say he does or will.. In either case we will find out, but I think the result will be a good one. I'm not a patient person when it comes to footy, but I think we'll have to be. Sure, we have finally got most of the ingrediants needed, put them together, mixed (allowing TC posters to stir) but now we have to let it set/bake (depending on the metaphor preferred). :donk:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:54 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
woof wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
We went on the attack mid way though the second term and got a few quick goals that were erroded by the umps.


In your eyes what you are saying is that the umps were the trigger point for us to get smashed by Essendon*?


What I was saying is that good football side control the momentum of the game. No team has the ability to play full on attack football for every minute of the game, so you have a different gameplan for when we need to recharge after having a burst of goals.

Goals gifted by umpires negates any gameplan that the players are following, so it can confuse the players as momentum is being taken away from them, without them understanding why. We got smashed because not enough players were prepared to do the work required to win back momentum and Stevens was gifting them goals constantly.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:13 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Cazzesman wrote:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/thestars/index.php/heraldsun/comments/think_again/

Regards Cazzesman

rubbish article!

I have read on this site that our players are confused by the schooling - I blame Ratts

I have read on this site that we should have at least three fully fledged working game-plans with instructions easily downloaded from the website - I blame Ratts and Sticks

I have read on this site that we go around the boundary - I blame Ratts and Hirdy for that idea (and maybe Malthouse)

I have read that Ratts has coached this side 48 times which, given we are carlton, is the same as 6 years for the other clubs, so we should already be sitting undefeated on the ladder - I blame Ratts

I could go on but really the question is this, who would you believe Hirdy or those who know they know more than they think they know and much more than anyone else can guess they know? I blame Ratts

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
Synbad wrote:
Quote:
I will say this, it is concerning when you say a father of one of our young guns is disappointed with the lack of teamhood......... :cry:


I truly believe that in life you improve and evolve if a) you really want to b) you have the correct instruction.

There is a sense of confusion, apathy, ineptedness,

The bit where Armfield is running past for a handball receieve.................. if thats what we have been working towards.................. :screwy:

Now we have had all preseason last year.... the season last year.... pre season this year... and 14 games to have Army being the quarterback??????

I love Army... dont blame him for his mistakes... it shouldnt have been him doing what he was doing....he doesnt have the decision making or the execution skills yet......
He never should have made thise mistakes because he never should have been in the playmakers position...

But hey!!!... thats where were at with our gameplan.. and structures...after all this time............ not much improvement.. a muddled mucking mess.. in so many areas...

Thats just an example...


You have used Army a few times in this thread to illustrate how Ratts can't coach, but in other threads you have criticized Ratts for wasting him as a tagger rather than provide run out of defense :razz: You seem a bit confused yourself.

Not that I think Army averaging 10.33 disposals over the last three games in anyway indicates he is being used as a quarterback. How dare he run past for a handball receive :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:27 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
Cazzesman wrote:
Synbad has thrown out a few bits of 'bait' suggesting there is some behind the scenes 'angst' at CFC .

My question would be...........................If these people with angst actually exist what makes these people any more right in their thinking than those they are unhappy with. How is it that Synbad can hint that Ratts, Sticks, Icke and Swanny have got things wrong and then know his 'source' has all the right answers. What makes his source any better than those in Power.

Just because there might be some nervous nellie behind the scenes who may or may not have a bee in his bonnet about something that annoys him, that doesn't mean there should be a Royal Commission into all things CFC.

At all clubs there are many people behind the scenes who are just supporters who are simply higher up the food chain than the rest of us. As supporters they still jump at shadows like many supporters on TC. Just like The Cranium posted his public venting on TC many people in coterie groups and on boards vent in private about who they believe is and who isn't capable of certain things within a club. The private then becomes public because that's human nature. Guys like Hutchy thrive on people with big mouths who have an opinion.

In every office, in every building, in every town in the world there is the 3rd in command who believe's he can do a better job than the bloke in charge.

Ego might not be a dirty word but in sporting organisations it's a bigger killer than cancer.

Regards Cazzesman


...and the discontented without fail congregate together and reinforce their views to eachother. Thus molehills become mountains. Happens in all organisations, but is heightened in sporting organisations due to the participation of the fanbases.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:33 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
Cazzesman wrote:
in8 wrote:
I would highly recommend everyone reads james hird's article in today's herald sun. Provides some great insights into coaching and development


Yeah/Nah. James is P 1 5ing into the breeze. He's beating this Coaching lark up abit me thinks. It's all a snap, dead easy and as simple as dotting an I and crossing a T. No need for all this schooly type stuff. It's not rocket science. You just get a footy and kick it around the park to your mates.

Then again..............................................................If a budding Coach like James says it.......... maybe................................just maybe it has some merit................................................maybe. :wink:

Still if Ratts team doesn't beat the Tigers by 20 goals he will be seen as useless by many...........................and yet if he does beat them by 20 gls he will still be seen as useless because the Tigers are useless and he should have beat them by 25 gls and the games was a complete waste of everyones time. :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

Regards Cazzesman


I doubt the article will change their minds in anyway :grin:

They will take what they want from it, just as they do with the games. Everything bad is Ratten, everything good is the players, although curiously at the same time players don't have any personal responsibility for their own performance :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
Koro wrote:
Great post Bagger :clap:


Agreed :thumbsup:

Bagger put a lot of thought into it, although I doubt it will get through to the discontented as it isn't quite as snappy as burn the witch :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:01 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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baz_baz wrote:
Seems like this thread needs a new name like "Its becoming very clear that Ratten could still be the man, just give him time"

Which is what it should have been all along.

I guess the name change comes about IMO by the strong argements put by most of the posters

and


The recent absense of a couple of posters.

Wonder who they could be :grin:


The moment we loose a game they will be back in full force...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:03 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Belisarius wrote:
Koro wrote:
Great post Bagger :clap:


Agreed :thumbsup:

Bagger put a lot of thought into it, although I doubt it will get through to the discontented as it isn't quite as snappy as burn the witch :lol:


You know it is ok to have a difference of opinion...u should look at it from a positive viewpoint and dont take it personally.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:02 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Belisarius wrote:
Koro wrote:
Great post Bagger :clap:


Agreed :thumbsup:

Bagger put a lot of thought into it, although I doubt it will get through to the discontented as it isn't quite as snappy as burn the witch :lol:


You know it is ok to have a difference of opinion...u should look at it from a positive viewpoint and dont take it personally.


You must be confusing me with someone else :grin: I've never called for the discontented to shut their traps. I have actually conceded a few valid points, but some of the arguments put up have been ridiculous and lacking in consistency...at times downright silly. So please allow me a giggle or two :lol: I actually find that very positive :wink:


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