For Judd and Army we gave up JK, 3, and 20

JK, Morton/ Rioli/ Dangerfield and one of Pears/ S Selwood /Notte / Collier/ Otten

Can't complain about getting Judd, but three young guns to come up with the rest of the group...

If we'd traded Fev last year we'd probably have had something like a top 10, a top 20 and a top 30 pick to add. Of course it's fantasy (like the rest of the post) to suggest the club would have traded Fev after 99, but anyhoo...

Or add a trade of Thornton to the Hawks in 06 for 2 2nd rounders - Petterd and Tippet / Renouf

By recruiting Judd and keeping Fev, the club were putting faith in a batch of 6-8 young guns (Gibbs, Kreuz, Murph, Grigg, Hammer, Walker, Bower) to get Judd, Fev and our young vets (Waite, Thornton, Simmo) to the top of the mountain within 4 years. Is 6-8 young guns enough?

We'd have been crap last year again - maybe some better picks. But assume we finished 11th

But add in: JK, C Morton (or if you think the recruiters are geniuses - Rioli), Otten, Rich, Blease Zaharakis, Petterd and Tippett (basically doubling our collection of young guns)

take out: Fev, Judd, Thornton, and Army

By getting Tippett to add to Hammer and Kreuz, we could leave Warnock and get Sam Wright plus Aaron Cornelius.

This may be more radical than the model Hawks used (they had a better core of 21-24 yr olds when they rebuilt, and it would have led to 2 more years of struggle (more draft picks?) but it would have given us a wider and deeper "window".

FF Betts Tippett Wright
HF Cornelius Kennedy Yarran
C Waite Gibbs Walker
HB Grigg Morton Blease
B Petterd Jamison Bower

R Kreuzer Murphy Rich
INT Hampson Otten Zaharakis Robinson

Imagine that team in 3 years and the 7 years after that!

Joseph Stevens Scotland Russell Browne Simpson Anderson Johnson Garlett O'Keeffe Tiller Hill etc to play their parts

Anyway, just daydreaming... but that's what WCE and Melbourne are doing, stocking up big time. We went for 2 big fish and wouldn't sell ours.

God help us!

The inmates have taken over the asylum, stolen a car and driven off in reverse using the rear view mirror to look where they're going.

What a bunch of boring drones who keep ranting and drowning out everyone else's opinion with their non-stop rhetoric about what we should have done.

Joan of Arc had a passionate belief, yet look where she ended up...

The Woody Woodpeckers just keep banging away until everyone is bored.

Or the rest start believing it's true and start regurgitating the group think as their own opinion.

I was taught to never repeat myself...

You just go on and on....

What were you taught?

If we had done that, our average age of the starting 22 would be? - how much game experience/weight would we be giving up?

This year is the first year that we will confidently able to trade a lot of 'seniors' in fev, thornton, stevens (aka hawthorn model). Previously we could have afforded to trade 1 of those players (as stated previously I would have traded Fev). We couldnt have afforded to trade all 3 players. If we had done that we may as well have run an under 18s team.

We can afford to make those trades now (given that murphy, russell, grigg, walker, gibbs would have all had 3+yrs by next season to bulk up) - I doubt many would be happy to accept the trades now though given the trade values of the players listed (I'd do it though)

Our best 22 from out main list

Backs
Thornton Jamison Grigg
Bower Waite Scotland

Midfield
Simpson Stevens Walker
Murphy Judd Gibbs

Rucks
Hampson Warnock

Forwards
Betts Kreuzer Houlihan
Carrazzo Fevola Yarran

In the mix for Bottom 2 spots
Anderson, Johnson, Armfeld, Browne, Cloke, O'hAilpin, Fisher, Austin, Joseph, Jacobs

Edwards and Hartlett still have massive questions marks beside their names.

Not up to the standard.

Russell, Wiggins, Bentick, Bannister, Hadley*

Cant be judged

Tiller, O'keefe,


Rookies

* Bentley, Greg - Gone
* Ellard, David - Gone
* Gartlett, Jeff - Prospect
* Hill, Lachie - Prospect
* Pfeiffer, Darren - Gone
* Stanton, Luke - Prospect

_________________
WE ARE CARLTON @#$%&! THE REST

How many teams offered us a first round pick for Fev, which by the way would have been ridiculousy under value.
Which teams offered us a first round pick for Thornton?
Fair dinkum, you reckon we're bad now, imagine how bad we'd be without Judd?
Whats the difference between a kid we would have drafted at Pick 24 and Warnock? Especially given we'd have drafted Mitch Robinson at 24 anyway.

If you're only going to answer one question, please pick the Thornton one as someone, may have been you, mentioned this a week or so ago and I don't remember seeing an answer.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

*bump*

Which clubs offered us first round picks Melvey?

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

We were holding out for a first rounder (I think the Hawks had pick 6 - I think the rationale was that they blew pick 6 on Danny Jacobs - which explains why the Hawks weren't keen on letting go of it) and the Hawks offered 2 2nd round picks - which I thought at the time was pretty generous.

Oh, and Melvey, if you don't have the answer (and you might - there may have been a quiet offer of a 1st rounder), there's no harm in admitting an error. We all get it wrong at times

The Thornton thing was answered in another thread.

And we'll se in 5 years time...................

Yeah, the Thornton thing was answered in another thread when he out the question back to me. Didn't want to admit he was wrong there either.

Next week he'll mention it again.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

we'll see in 5 years time........................

we'll see in 5 years time........................[/quote}


Here we go again. First Melvey thinks Chris Johnson is a gun (based on the fact that his mates had him in their Supercoach team last year) and now he claims Thornton was worth a first rounder..... yadda yadda yadda...drivel...

Add t that Yarran will be a dud

What a horrible thing to say.

Melvey do you post on CSC?

what's CSC?

maybe dud is a little harsh. im sure he will be better than tambling

Missing off half back are Scottland, Johnson, Waite, Carrazzo, Walker and Grigg. Add those guys into the back half then the next line up from that is Murph, Gibbs, Stevo, Simpson and Judd who become the guts of our midfield.

At the moment with those guys missing the likes of Juddy, Murph, Stevo, Simpson and Gibbs are covering more ground and forced to get back to create the run.

With Waite, Carazzo, Walker, Johnson, Scottland and Grigg in the team allow Murph, Gibbs, Judd, Stevo and Simpson can play a more attacking role and be far more damaging.

In the next few weeks we have Carrazzo, Scottland, Grigg and Johnson to return and there run off half back is most wanted right now

With the season is at half way point, just where do fit the following players into the current Carlton team?

Top shelf..
Warnock Waite Walker Thornton

Oldies...
Wiggins Cloke Fisher JRussell Hadley Hartlett

Forgottens...
Bentick Pfieffer Johnson

Hopefuls...
Bentley Jacobs

Youngies...
Yarran Robinson

Unknowns...
Edwards Tiller O'Keefe Ellard Anderson Hill

Assuming that there were never any injuries, how do you choose the best team for now? Or do you look at 'grooming' for a big future? Say a tilt in 2010?

Obviously Warnock was selected for the Ruck. So what happens to Kreuzer and Hampson?
If Carlton can bed down a solid defensive unit, maybe Waite can be freed up to play more attacking role forward of centre. He is a natural goal kicker. So maybe Kreuzer and Waite become the two tall options to Fev.
Walker provides much run and grunt, and is a naturally gifted footballer. Where to play him?

I can't see any future position for Cloke, Wiggins or Fisher on forward line. Looks like Hartlett has been at club too long for little return. Setanta, on the other hand, for all his limitations, has provided much movement up forward, can reach a contest and keeps his feet. Skills that the others lack. He is difficult to match up.

Ratten's plan this year was to improve the forward options, speed out of defense, kicking skills and to limit the possibilty of 'blowouts'.

This week, with the new personnel, Carlton played with plenty of speed out of the backline. Thornton was not missed. The downside to his game is that he is slower and tends to look sideways for options. He prefers to kick lollypops which slows the process down too. Bower, Austin, Scotland, Armfield, Joseph and Browne not ony supply heaps of speed, but can also reach the contest. Once they worked out how to 'fill the space' into Reiwoldt, the St Kilda had far less impact on the game.

The biggest surprise this year is the development of Joseph. He is shaming opposition forwards with defensive nouse and attacking exuberance. He has only played 12 games!

The other issue is trade time. Me thinks that Thornton is tradeable as he still has value. Hawthorn has shown interest in past few years, and they are really short on defense personel. Maybe Carrazzo has value too (Richmond). And in two years, even Nick Stevens (Too the Filth). Jacobs will need to find another home (Melbourne), but may not have any trade value.

As far as game strategy goes, Ratten and the MC need to find a way to protect/support Judd. He wont last another 6 years with current exposure to heavy traffic. Maybe Blues have to breed/buy a 'protector' around the stoppages for the leader.

I look forward to Yarran, Robinson and O'Keefe cementing positions in the team next year. But the question is, at who's expense?

My 2010 Grand Final team...

Browne Jamison Joseph
Scotland Bower Austin
Simpson Gibbs Murphy
Waite Kreuzer Stevens
Betts Fevola Yarran

Rucks/Rover
Hampson Warnock Judd

Interchange
Grigg Walker O'hAilpin Gartlett

Emergencies
Robinson Carazzo Armfield Russell

NB. No Thornton Wiggins Cloke Fisher Hadley

Hey, Benji, your best 22 doesn't even closely reflect what is on the park.
Warnock hasn't even played in the Ants yet.
Yarran is playing in the Ants.
O'hAilpin is in the team.
So is Garlett

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

Time for an update as it has been a while and is getting interesting!

B: Armfield Jamison Bower
HB: Russell Austin Grigg
C: Walker McLean Waite
HF: Yarran Henderson Gibbs
F: Betts Cloke Kruezer
Foll: Hampson Judd Murphy
Int: Thornton Joseph Simpson Carrazzo

Try fitting them all in now????????????? I would also be happy with Anderson, Browne, OKeefe, Jacobs, Garlett, Warnock, Scotland, Houlihan, Hadley, Johnson, Setanta, Robinson and Pick 12.


Even then I didnt have Fev or Stevens in it!

_________________
#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015

FB: Joseph, Jamo, T-Bird
HB: Russell, Bower, Armfield
C: Walker, McLean, Simpson
HF: Murphy, Waite, Yarran
F: Betts, Henderson, Kreuzer

RCK: Warnock, Judd, Gibbs

INT: Robinson, Carrots, Austin, Grigg

EMG: Hadley, Hammer, Carlos

Will review again after ND and PSD.

I'm expecting Austin to come on next year and play 22 games pending injury. Adds flexiblity.

JR will continue to take massive steps from half back in 2010.

Carlos if he finds that form he had towards the end of the year will be our CHF, I've left him out for now pending Waite's return.

I look at our list and we are very athletic and flexible, but most of all we have plenty of hard bodies who attached the contest.