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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:01 pm
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cj69 wrote:
The fact of the matter is that we had every reason to win today and we couldn't.

Hawthorn have been struggling and are nowhere near their best yet.
If Pratts death couldn't get us up nothing will.
We were behind all day and only got a run at the end when Hawthorn dropped off.
Our better players played well.

We are still a long way off.


Some strange posts from you on this game, CJ.

We lost to the flowering reigning premiers by 4 pts. 4 pts. One more scoring shot, more inside 50's etc. Cats played them in Rd 1, yes the almighty ones, and won by only 8 pts and they had more out that game than this. Don't worry about their other games - they were tuned in big time today and played very well. A far different team on the big stage - refer GF last year.

Joseph has been outstanding of late as he was today - he's a 2nd year rookie and yet he's one you want to torch? God give me strength. Manna from heaven this guy, how lucky we are he's developed as such a fast rate.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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The decision to play Bentley over Hadley was a joke.
The MC has a lot to answer for.
That guy was just so lost.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm
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eric pascoe wrote:
The decision to play Bentley over Hadley was a joke.
The MC has a lot to answer for.
That guy was just so lost.


My sentiments exactly.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Hawthorn did their homework on Jamison.

Franklin played as a decoy...he dragged Jamison out of the 50 so that Roughead could be one on one. Then Jamison had different opponents such as Moss, all trying to take Jamison away from deep in defence.

Not many defenders can beat Roughead one on one...they were able to spread our defence so that Jamison couldn't be a second man up with Roughead.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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One has to wonder about the wisdom of playing T-Bird on the forward with the big body and a head to match his name. T-Bird tried hard but he has always struggled against that type of player - so has Jamo but his credibility didn't suffer because he was not even asked to try. We have only one player who has the size to match up on these types and he should have been given more than a couple of minutes at it.

Waite should never be allowed to kick in - ever again. Bentley's selection ahead of Hadley was difficult to explain - especially when Mitchell dominated the clearances in the final quarter.

If the MC expects Kreuzer to combat Sandilands with only Setanta and Cloke for back-up next week, it should be dumped. If Sauce isn't fit, it has to be Hammer time.

Very good efforts from Bower, Carrazzo and Joseph.

Apart from the weak umpire who didn't pay an obvious 50 metres in the final quarter and the dodgy mark to Roughead in the first qtr, I thought the umps were ok - even if I didn't agree with all of their decisions; at least I could see how they made them.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:19 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Bower was great today... again. in fact since the Essendon* game, his last 3 weeks have been back to the form he was showing last year. He deserves a big pat on the back... even if he is heart in the mouth stuff when he has the ball.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:22 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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coryne wrote:
cj69 wrote:
coryne wrote:
cj69 wrote:
The fact of the matter is that we had every reason to win today and we couldn't.

Hawthorn have been struggling and are nowhere near their best yet.
If Pratts death couldn't get us up nothing will.
We were behind all day and only got a run at the end when Hawthorn dropped off.
Our better players played well.

We are still a long way off.



So we played off in a "CLASSIC" game, and lost, but it wasn't good enough and we should hold no hope for improvement because if we couldn't use Pratts death as motivation then nothing will get us over the line ???

Can you say overreaction ???

Why is it that 95% of the football world will see this game as a CLASSIC for the season, but Carlton supporters will see it as a FAILURE ???

Pull your finger out people !!!!!!!!!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


My apologies, I should be jumping up and down about a loss. What are we, Richmond?

Plus where did I say Failure?

The fact of the matter is that what I want is a premiership. Unlike some people near enough isn't good enough for me and to achieve this we need to be realistic about where we are at. Yes, our effort was fantastic but we have issues we need to address.


Where did you say failure ??? Indicating that we couldn't even beat an underperforming team even after the death of a loved Carlton member = implying the game/effort was a failure in my, and probably most peoples books


You wan't a premiership and DEMAND it right away ??? Anything less isn;t good enough (eg a failure). God what number were you wearing out there tonight ??? How much blood, sweat and tears have you put in at training and on game day to be able to DEMAND a premiership, and anything less isn;t good enough ???

You say that we need to be "realistic about where we are at". Where we are at is coming from 11th spot with a young, developing team and a young, inexperienced coaching panel. Where we are at is a Captain stating at the start of the season is Finals as the goal (not the premiership you want). Where we are at is a team growing together, learning how to play as a team and developing as players individually.

It is the marketing department (slogan that Stick's kinda laughs at), Media and Supporters that have Carlton as a Top 4 team. It it Carlton who are trying things out in the senior team (Cloke as a CHF, Setanta in the Ruck/up forward) and the Ants (Harlett in the backline, Hampson up forward or up back) so address the weaknesses in the team.

How long do you think it took the Cats and Hawks to learn the game plan their young coaches (at the time) implemented ??? How many years of losses before the gameplans became effective ???

To be as negative as a large proportion of the TC posters have been after NARROWLY loosing a CLASSIC game aainst the REIGNING PREMIERS is REDICULOUS and, as you would put it, very "Richmond" like ................ It sounds like we need to start rebuilding again, sacking the coach and recruitment team because out gameplan sucks, we have no KPP and we are doing NOTHING to address these problems ...........


To be fair, a club should never stop rebuilding. Also; the more people start demanding others "remain positive" the more the negative posts start to mount up. All that is needed is a little perspective.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:32 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Our bottom six was less effective than theirs today. That lost us the game. Plenty of positives and no need to slash our wrists.....

Bentley had a 'mare, but it happens.

Cloke likewise. I would like to see Hartlett get a go and Cloke made to realise that he has to fight for his spot. He is not a ruckman - it remains to be seen if he can be a key position threat.

Wiggins quiet. Russell's worst game for the year (particularly first half), but he has been good so far and some guys want him hung, drawn and quartered. He worked hard to get into it in the second half.

One kick in the end. One kick. Could have been a goal. Not the end of the world.

We have been two kicks away from 5-1 start. If our form holds, we will be a good side this year.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:54 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
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I'd like to ask, what would be the reaction if we had lost by 25 points? Is the reaction so savage because we could have won if Fev had kicked straight? I also wonder what the reaction would have been had we won.

Yes, we have holes, we were missing Grigg, Walker, Hadley, Browne, Hampson who in my opinion would have provided more than the bottom 6 we had.

I think there is no doubting that we are probably a little short of a genuine chance this year and tough decisions will need to be made on some players but the determination and effort could not be doubted. I think some of the reaction needs to be more measured. It is disappointing to lose like that but some of the reaction in this thread is over the top.

Whether that effort from some players is good enough for a premiership side is another question.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 11:57 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The_Cranium wrote:
Today is without doubt the most devestating loss loss I have ever been at in 25 years of going to the footy.


Plenty more devastating than that.

Against Hawthorn at the G when Dixon kicked the winner after the siren for one.

I hated that we lost, but I liked the overall effort, if not the outcome.

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:04 am 
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Harry Vallence
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RiverRodent wrote:
Apart from the weak umpire who didn't pay an obvious 50 metres in the final quarter and the dodgy mark to Roughead in the first qtr, I thought the umps were ok - even if I didn't agree with all of their decisions; at least I could see how they made them.


That free against Juddy for holding the ball was a shocker. Got grabbed as soon as he had the ball and got pinged. Disgraceful...


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:05 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
The_Cranium wrote:
Today is without doubt the most devestating loss loss I have ever been at in 25 years of going to the footy.


Plenty more devastating than that.

Against Hawthorn at the G when Dixon kicked the winner after the siren for one.

I hated that we lost, but I liked the overall effort, if not the outcome.


The first final against Melbourne in 2000.

I was pleased that we still were competative with the pressure that our players were under. Hawthorn are one of the best at shutting down space and applying pressure and today I thought the hawks played really well in that reagrd.

If we play like we did today we will beat 12 out of 15 teams every time. A the moment we are still 4th on the ladder and the lowest we can go is 6th. Its not a tragedy.

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:30 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
The_Cranium wrote:
Today is without doubt the most devestating loss loss I have ever been at in 25 years of going to the footy.


Plenty more devastating than that.

Against Hawthorn at the G when Dixon kicked the winner after the siren for one.

I hated that we lost, but I liked the overall effort, if not the outcome.



Ooh the horror the horror.
I have flowering bad memories of that day. I destroyed a lovely piece of antique furniture that afternoon. That pompous little flowering genitalia.

My god I used to get emotional. Im glad that Im all grown up now!


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:43 am 
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Geoff Southby
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All I can say is games like this make our passengers look glaringly obvious.

We need to blood our talent and stop relying on big bodied battlers...weed it all out I say.

We need Warnock or Hampson to come good, more games into Bower and Jamison and our backline fullstop, Yarran /Garlett to be the goal kickers we all hope and get another couple of good users to rotate in the middle and we are on our way kids.

Although I was the most devastated I have been for quite sometime all I can wrap it up with is with a big :thumbsup: to the CFC because this game just shows you how far we have come.....Get up, over it and on with it boys.

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:07 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:48 pm
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RiverRodent wrote:
One has to wonder about the wisdom of playing T-Bird on the forward with the big body and a head to match his name. T-Bird tried hard but he has always struggled against that type of player - so has Jamo but his credibility didn't suffer because he was not even asked to try. We have only one player who has the size to match up on these types and he should have been given more than a couple of minutes at it.

Waite should never be allowed to kick in - ever again. Bentley's selection ahead of Hadley was difficult to explain - especially when Mitchell dominated the clearances in the final quarter.

If the MC expects Kreuzer to combat Sandilands with only Setanta and Cloke for back-up next week, it should be dumped. If Sauce isn't fit, it has to be Hammer time.

Very good efforts from Bower, Carrazzo and Joseph.

Apart from the weak umpire who didn't pay an obvious 50 metres in the final quarter and the dodgy mark to Roughead in the first qtr, I thought the umps were ok - even if I didn't agree with all of their decisions; at least I could see how they made them.


i went crazy when that happened :mad:

anyway i was thinking the same with Hampson.. if he plays above average for the bullants this week he just has to play.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:11 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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being a glutton for punishment I have just finished watching the replay on fox.... A little less devestated now.... still heart breaking stuff. Felt so sorry for fev at the end of the game. He no doubt blames himself for the loss, but he shouldn't. He was fantastic today. We had the best of the umpiring through the day I reckon, but in the last 1/4 they maggots made up for it. The Hloding the ball decision against Judd was a disgrace and the non 50 metre penalties to firstly Waite after he took the mark and Brown ran over the mark, and then Joseph after he was held and Buddy looked at the umpire and kicked for goal anyway were nothing short of weak pathetic umpiring.

It didn't cost us the game in the end, but didn't help the cause. I still can't believe Fev hit the post. :cry:

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:11 am 
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Craig Bradley
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just watched the replay.

and again, i walk away saying, there wasnt much more we could have done

and all i ask out of any carlton side, is to give as much as they can, and they did that.

a couple little incidents during the game, not just the fev poster, was the difference in the end.

just a couple little things.

eventually, we will turn that around.

again, after watching the game, we have come so far already, our kicking, our handball in general has improved in leaps and bounds.

sure we have the occasional nightmare kick (prime example being Waite costing us a goal - one of those little incidents) but outside of that, we are fast becoming a football side that uses the bal very very well.

p.s. must add, well done to Robert Walls. He simply hammered the ref who didnt reward the 50m penalty against Franklin (another one of those little incidents) and he was spot on. The umpire at the time, didnt have the courage to pay the right decision ... and who knows what could have happened from there..

but again, it was a very good performance by our up and coming side :) they know we are coming.

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:25 am 
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Trevor Keogh

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I can't blame the MC for today's loss. We made some silly mistakes and some players didn't perform to their best but we were in it to the end and it looked like we were going to run over them. The MC will learn a lot from that game and some of the tactics worked in our favour. We all make mistakes and they gambled on a big body who could kick the ball long but on the day it didn't work out. The tactic may have been right but the personnel wasn't up to it on the day so next time let's see if a change in personnel or positioning makes the difference.

The best thing about today from my point of view was that our youngsters got to play against hard tough competition in a pressure game with a finals like atmosphere. That could be worth a lot of games to some of the kids and very handy in the last half of the season. By my count we had 14 players out there today who had played less than 100 games. That's a young team and some of them may not take the next step and some lost a bit of concentration at times in the game or got caught napping. That can happen with a young team and they will learn from it. However when we were crying out for someone to open the game up and get it down forward Judd Murphy Gibbs and Kreuzer in the middle and then Armfield going straight down the centre, brushing aside a tackle and giving us a chance to win. Looks like he still needs a few kilos but you have got to admire that effort. He and Joseph have added pace and are both tough at the contest. Eddie has stepped up to another level and with improved fitness can now play further up the ground.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:45 am 
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Robert Walls
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A lot has been made of our "bottom 6" not being good enough. Anyone want to hazard a guess at who they would be?

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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:52 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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From Today's game....

Bentley
Cloke
Setanta
Wiggins
Armfield

Maybe Joseph as the sixth, though I reckon he's done fairly well. Maybe not bottom 6 but those 5 I reckon struggle

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