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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:57 am 
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Rod Ashman

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blueboy8 wrote:
We should have redeveloped PP.

Then the AFL as promised not schedule games there

Go broke

Then end up relocating to Gold Coast and forever be know as Goldcoast blues

I'm shattered we went to the Dome have 40K members and have a viable future. life sux :donk: :donk:


A general :garthp: to this entire post...


...and although I don't really feel the need to explain why, I will just say that the break even for the Dome is a shitload higher than the break even was for PP when we were playing there - but hey that's cool I'm quite content pulling 50k at the Dome and making a dollar fifty to go towards a viable future... :donk: :donk:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:36 am 
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Bruce Comben

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Jesus, if we didn't play Freo at Carrara we would be PAYING to play the game at the Collodome! Wake up peoples!

We supposedly have the best terms aside from Essendon* at that shithole. We got raped by our own president! :evil:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:55 am 
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Rod Ashman

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FiveIsAlive wrote:
Jesus, if we didn't play Freo at Carrara we would be PAYING to play the game at the Collodome! Wake up peoples!

We supposedly have the best terms aside from Essendon* at that shithole. We got raped by our own president! :evil:


Exactly.

Cue all the forum posters who have the wool pulled over their eyes.

*SparkyBlue pauses with a handful of popcorn two centimetres from his mouth*

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:53 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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BlueMark wrote:
Budsyblues wrote:
The title of this thread should be enough of a giveaway.
John Elliot was, is, and always will be an opinionated, pompous buffoon.
He bankrupted the club, constructed the worst playing list in our history, paid a wooden spoon side $4 Mil over the salary cap, cost us two years of cream draft picks and built a white elephant grandstand at enormous cost that was full once in it's sorry history.
Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple.


That sums it up for me.


budsy and teaguey couldn't come up with anything Mark. Perhaps you can give a balanced view of Elliott's first 15 years with the club.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:38 am 
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Bruce Doull
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FiveIsAlive wrote:
Jesus, if we didn't play Freo at Carrara we would be PAYING to play the game at the Collodome! Wake up peoples!

We supposedly have the best terms aside from Essendon* at that shithole. We got raped by our own president! :evil:



Ah yes.... but if you understood anything about business... youd know if you made 22 investments you wnt win them all... and u look at what youve done at the end of the year....

And if you were clever... youd realise you dont need massive profits ut of this game... you need premierships.

And if you look with a bg picture... youd understand that if you made $1 profit from a game at the Dome in front of 30k .... its much better than making 100k in front of 15k people...long term

Cos if youre getting the people to the footy... you survive and the game survives...

But then some people arent big picture people... and they certainly dont understand standardisation and the reality of business.

Its all a numbers game.... and ultimately about flags.

You wont get anythng at Princes Park... you might get some cheap dollars... but youre not playing finals there...
You wont get night games there
You wint get sponsors there.
And you wont get bums on seats there... (ultimately the conditioning of the next generations of Blues)

So shrot term gain...long term pain...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:42 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Oh and the AFL dont want a 3rd ground..... unless we get the rights to hosting the world cup and i doubt that.

Why have 3 grounds when u need 2???

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:52 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Synbad wrote:
FiveIsAlive wrote:
Jesus, if we didn't play Freo at Carrara we would be PAYING to play the game at the Collodome! Wake up peoples!

We supposedly have the best terms aside from Essendon* at that shithole. We got raped by our own president! :evil:



Ah yes.... but if you understood anything about business... youd know if you made 22 investments you wnt win them all... and u look at what youve done at the end of the year....

And if you were clever... youd realise you dont need massive profits ut of this game... you need premierships.

And if you look with a bg picture... youd understand that if you made $1 profit from a game at the Dome in front of 30k .... its much better than making 100k in front of 15k people...long term

Cos if youre getting the people to the footy... you survive and the game survives...

But then some people arent big picture people... and they certainly dont understand standardisation and the reality of business.

Its all a numbers game.... and ultimately about flags.

You wont get anythng at Princes Park... you might get some cheap dollars... but youre not playing finals there...
You wont get night games there
You wint get sponsors there.
And you wont get bums on seats there... (ultimately the conditioning of the next generations of Blues)

So shrot term gain...long term pain...


*chomp*

Ah Synners, such a funny fellow.

Short term gain, long term pain?


Short term gain, long term pain?!?!?!

Tell me - after our incentives to move to TD in the first place dry up (not exactly sure when they expire, but I know it is soon), then
all we will be stuck with is a shit contract at a home ground that isn't really our home ground, with a way higher break-even than PP ever had...
and we'll have no 'bonus' AFL payments for moving there to subsidise or justify it...


Now THAT sounds like short term gain, long term pain.




And a lot more painful than using a ground that could be used by other AFL teams WHERE WE PROFIT FROM IT AS A RESULT.



As in - we don't get a cent for Essendon* playing at the Dome.

Or their merchandise sales.

HELL WE DON'T EVEN GET THE PROFITS FROM OUR MERCHANDISE SALES AT THE DOME....

Now.

I'd like somebody to rebuke that. Doesn't have to be Synners, I dare say he'd skip straight over my points anyway. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:02 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Your pints are silly so they do get skipped over...

Why would anyone build you something so that you can profit directly by having other teams playing there?


You sound like someone who mistakingly thinks he is worth squillions....

In case u missed it we are still holding ont the interest free loan the AFL gave us years ago... that we were meant to have paid back years ago....

WE actually owe a swag of cash....!!!... could take years n years to pay off...

And in reality were building a training facilty for our players... to get better... to win a flag......

... or we would have another white elephant on our hands if we listened to sme people... be broke.... and train at shit creek???

Its not like u can have pools and gyms and medical facilties as well as a ground to play on at PP....

Reality bites!!!... in reality....

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:30 am 
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Harry Vallence

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ScottSaunders wrote:

and im still yet to hear of a reasonable arguament as to why it couldnt have been used by all clubs for the lower drawing crowds. and in light of recent discussions and considerations or admissions if you will, by the AFL, it just proves my point at the times.

You have heard plenty of arguments why it couldn't be used for low drawing crowd, but fail to listen to them.

1. The goal of the AFL is to allow access to as many poeple to watch the sport as possible.
2. Even a poor crowd at Docklands is greater than 20,000 which is about the amount of car park space at PP
3. If North Melbourne was to play Freo at PP, I doubt they would get 15,000 people there, at Docklands that same game will get 20,000+
4. There are not enough low drawing crowds to justify a third stadium in Mebourne
5. If there is only going to be 2 stadiums, then PP is never going to be one of them.
6. All stadiums must be able to play night games

Quote:

i have always opposed the move to TD. i said it then, and i say it now, we should have played all victorian based clubs at MCG, and perhaps Brisbane, WC, Adelaide etc.. to be played at PP. Im still yet to here an argument as to why we couldnt do that, other than the AFL tells us where to go and when ... and i said it then and i say it now, thats rubbish. Not a year was passed after our move, and Collingwood, the shining lights, got the exact deal we wanted.



So based on that we should have been playing the brisbane game at PP :roll: Considering that we had 42,000+ attend that game in round 2, do we play it over 2 days so that everyone that wanted to watch the game were given the oppertunity to do so?

As for Collingwood, unfortunatly as painful as it is to say, but they deserve the right to play all their home games at MCG. The fact of the matter is because they had easy access to a larger stadium over a longer period of time meant that more of their supporters attended their games. Poor access to PP meant that only our supporters went to watch us play and it's a bit rich for us to ask to have the MCG as our sole home ground when our attendances is half of Collingwood and Essendon* attendances.

Some people think that our club is on a par with Collingwood and Essendon* as being the big 3, but reality is that we have for a long time been a closed club that failed to be inclusive of all supporters (some of the social club members on this site still feel that way) and alot of the arguments of the viability of PP is still centered of this way of thinking. Thankfully the move away from PP has opened the club to allow more supporters to become members and grow the club to a point somewhere in the future we might be able to claim being equal to Collingwood & Essendon*, but we still have a way to go. If we grow the club to that size, then no-one will be complaining about the deal with Docklands as we will regularly have big enough attendances to make profit at the gate, but really make it big in membership sales.


Some can see the bigger picture, others are to busy looking back to see it. Finally the board at Carlton now can. :clap:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:36 am 
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Steve_C7 wrote:
1. The goal of the AFL is to allow access to as many poeple to watch the sport as possible.


Why are there still lockouts at Docklands then?

What happened to the best fit policy?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:40 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Synbad wrote:
Your pints are silly so they do get skipped over...
Why would anyone build you something so that you can profit directly by having other teams playing there?


You miss the point. :thumbsup: This is not the only option there are plenty. If you know business so well then you will know there is never one option so move on.

If there was going to be a 3rd ground and I believe there will be considering the AFL planned for less teams in Melbourne AND we have GC and WS coming into the competition shortly then it will need to be backed by all Melbourne clubs. You are right, teams won't want Carlton to benefit only - all teams will need to benefit.

One option would be to still play at PP (or a third ground) against West Sydney, Freo etc at a ground the AFL supports and the AFL negotiate a fantastic deal for all clubs so Carlton are not the only ones who benefit. If this third ground happened to be PP then what a bonus. This is highly possible if the AFL and Carlton could negotiate changes to the current lease.

There will be a third ground, two is not enough. All teams will need to accept it though. Playing teams like Bulldogs and WS or GC at the Dome will mean Melbourne clubs go broke. It won't work. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:47 am 
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Harry Vallence

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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
1. The goal of the AFL is to allow access to as many poeple to watch the sport as possible.


Why are there still lockouts at Docklands then?

What happened to the best fit policy?


The best fit policy went out the door when docklands was built. The issues with medallian club members, MCC members, Food outlets & restaurants means that too many people/businesses will be affected for the small increase in attendance if the game were moved.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:51 am 
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Harry Vallence

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DIAMOTISM wrote:


If there was going to be a 3rd ground and I believe there will be considering the AFL planned for less teams in Melbourne AND we have GC and WS coming into the competition shortly then it will need to be backed by all Melbourne clubs.

There will be a third ground, two is not enough. All teams will need to accept it though. Playing teams like Bulldogs and WS or GC at the Dome will mean Melbourne clubs go broke. It won't work. :thumbsup:


The new teams will actually take pressure of the Melbourne stadiums as there will be more interstae games played each week, meaning that less games will be played in Melbourne.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:48 am 
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Steve_C7 wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
1. The goal of the AFL is to allow access to as many poeple to watch the sport as possible.


Why are there still lockouts at Docklands then?

What happened to the best fit policy?


The best fit policy went out the door when docklands was built. The issues with medallian club members, MCC members, Food outlets & restaurants means that too many people/businesses will be affected for the small increase in attendance if the game were moved.


So what? If the goal of the AFL was to allow access to as many people as possible then the games would either be moved or scheduled better in the first place.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:12 am 
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Budsyblues wrote:
The title of this thread should be enough of a giveaway.
John Elliot was, is, and always will be an opinionated, pompous buffoon.
He bankrupted the club, constructed the worst playing list in our history, paid a wooden spoon side $4 Mil over the salary cap, cost us two years of cream draft picks and built a white elephant grandstand at enormous cost that was full once in it's sorry history.
Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple.


That sums it up for me.


budsy and teaguey couldn't come up with anything Mark. Perhaps you can give a balanced view of Elliott's first 15 years with the club.


are you trying to suggest his early 'better period' outweighed the effects of his latter years, which almost resulted in the club folding + 3 spoons?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:19 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Megaman wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Budsyblues wrote:
The title of this thread should be enough of a giveaway.
John Elliot was, is, and always will be an opinionated, pompous buffoon.
He bankrupted the club, constructed the worst playing list in our history, paid a wooden spoon side $4 Mil over the salary cap, cost us two years of cream draft picks and built a white elephant grandstand at enormous cost that was full once in it's sorry history.
Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple.


That sums it up for me.


budsy and teaguey couldn't come up with anything Mark. Perhaps you can give a balanced view of Elliott's first 15 years with the club.


are you trying to suggest his early 'better period' outweighed the effects of his latter years, which almost resulted in the club folding + 3 spoons?


Thats not my point. Its unfair to judge him only on the last 5 years he was at the club.

Are you agreeing that 'Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple'?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:34 am 
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Megaman wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Budsyblues wrote:
The title of this thread should be enough of a giveaway.
John Elliot was, is, and always will be an opinionated, pompous buffoon.
He bankrupted the club, constructed the worst playing list in our history, paid a wooden spoon side $4 Mil over the salary cap, cost us two years of cream draft picks and built a white elephant grandstand at enormous cost that was full once in it's sorry history.
Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple.


That sums it up for me.


budsy and teaguey couldn't come up with anything Mark. Perhaps you can give a balanced view of Elliott's first 15 years with the club.


are you trying to suggest his early 'better period' outweighed the effects of his latter years, which almost resulted in the club folding + 3 spoons?


Thats not my point. Its unfair to judge him only on the last 5 years he was at the club.

Are you agreeing that 'Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple'?


Probably not no, however he took us from league powerhouse to laughing stock and near financial ruin

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:44 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Megaman wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Megaman wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Budsyblues wrote:
The title of this thread should be enough of a giveaway.
John Elliot was, is, and always will be an opinionated, pompous buffoon.
He bankrupted the club, constructed the worst playing list in our history, paid a wooden spoon side $4 Mil over the salary cap, cost us two years of cream draft picks and built a white elephant grandstand at enormous cost that was full once in it's sorry history.
Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple.


That sums it up for me.


budsy and teaguey couldn't come up with anything Mark. Perhaps you can give a balanced view of Elliott's first 15 years with the club.


are you trying to suggest his early 'better period' outweighed the effects of his latter years, which almost resulted in the club folding + 3 spoons?


Thats not my point. Its unfair to judge him only on the last 5 years he was at the club.

Are you agreeing that 'Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple'?


Probably not no, however he took us from league powerhouse to laughing stock and near financial ruin


That doesnt mean it was all his doing and Aby idea he's ever had is poison, pure and simple.

All I've asked if for anyone who thinks it was to provide a bit of balance and provide a summary of his first 15 years.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:03 pm 
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..moot point, there's not gonna be a 3rd venue in Melb., pure and simple.. ..it's just BS and politicking by the AFL, expect the 3rd venue rubbish to be trotted out as deflection tactics.. ..lookit, when the docklands and mcg are holding games simultaneously again and again and again, then, we might start thinking a 3rd venue is viable.. ..but it's hugely doubtful..

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:59 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
TruBlueBrad wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
1. The goal of the AFL is to allow access to as many poeple to watch the sport as possible.


Why are there still lockouts at Docklands then?

What happened to the best fit policy?


The best fit policy went out the door when docklands was built. The issues with medallian club members, MCC members, Food outlets & restaurants means that too many people/businesses will be affected for the small increase in attendance if the game were moved.


So what? If the goal of the AFL was to allow access to as many people as possible then the games would either be moved or scheduled better in the first place.



Name me which games would will be a lockout at the dome this season.


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