from True Blue Brad - his number one supporter in July last year:



This was from the week he was dropped, but SB is making up fantasies.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Ratts said at the time that St Kilda went in smaller and Santy didn't have any real matchup. He said it was horses for courses. Whether you can take that to the bank is up to you.

But the thing about the injury in the Bullants game was that it had been a problem for him all year and it became more problematic as the year went on. His situation was not unlike Hadley's early games - he played under duress and then finally the club pulled the plug. Same with Santy - the problem was chronic, but it was difficult to diagnose and treat. He came off in that Bullants game and complained about the problem with his nerves/leg, but it wasn't like he was fine in previous games and just did his muscle in that game. That's what is so exciting about this year. The 12 games he played out of the maximum of 15 last year were more than passable in absolute terms, and bloody brilliant when you take the injury into account. When he returns fully fit, anything is possible. Certainly, when it comes to Santy, you have to expect the unexpected

Mav when do you think he will be selected - Very much doubt round 1 as he won't have played due to the suspension - That would put round 2 & 3 and 4 in doubt as the Ants dont play until April 12 and I very much doubt he will get selected April 18 after only one game - So then we move to round 5 Bulldogs - is there a need for him there - If in the first three games he plays for the Ants are brilliant he may get selected round 6 against Hawthorn - and if Jamison- thorton- Bower - Austin and Waite are doing a job and not injured -

He is going to have to be exceptional to break back in

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Setanta should be, and will be, ahead of Austin in the whole scheme of things for this year at least.

What's your problem with him SB, did he rape your dog or something

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

Hard to say, and I wouldn't want to speculate. Depends very much on how we go in the NAB Cup.

Let's say we lose to North. That means that he'll be able to play all of the remaining games of the preseason. He'll then be sidelined for 3 weeks. In effect, he'll be in the same category as someone who has just about a full preseason, but then cops a hammie that puts him out for 3 weeks (though he'd undertake full training so he'd be better off). Many such players come back in immediately. Of course, that depends on how the other defenders are travelling. If we cop injuries, he might just have to play.

Let's say we make it to the GF. That means he'll be able to play from Rd 1. But it also means that he'll miss out on all of the NAB Cup matches, and I'm not sure he'll be able to play Bullants practice matches over that period. He'll certainly be able to play in the Bullants practice match the week before Rd 1. That might leave him short of match practice, but more importantly to get into the GF, 24 players would have played very well and would deserve spots in Rd 1. Only if injuries happen would he be able to make an early claim on a spot. Not wishing that, of course, but you only have to look back to 2005 when Thornton did his knee in the preseason cup GF and Livo did his ankle in Rd 1 to see that spots can open up.

Then it's possible we'll win 1 or 2 in the NAB Cup and he'll be eligible to play in Rd 3 or Rd 2 respectively with 2 or 1 Regional Cup matches under his belt respectively.

So possible injuries and our success or lack of it in the NAB Cup make it impossible to reach any firm conclusions.

I think I know the point you are making: First in best dressed...is that it?

Well if everyone is blitzing and we are 5 wins no losses..and Santy has only played one Ants game due to suspension and the delayed start of the VFL....well yeah, even Bosustow may struggle to get a spot in the 22.

Great to see SB that you that you can see there could be a reason other than form that doesn't allow Santy to break into the team in the first half dozen rounds of the season.

Good thing is that there's a second half of the season; it's a long season for anyones body and mind and form fluctuates.

Do you believe in horses for courses?
Do you really think Austin is really ready to play in must win games against experienced forwards in 2009? What about 200cm forwards?
Do you really think there isn't a place for Setanta in the team?
What if there's an injury to lets say, Jamison, Bower or Thornton? Is there a spot for him then?

I think you're starting to show your sft side for Setanta SB. You love everyone in the Old Dark Navy Blue...come on....say it.

No one should be saddened to know that Setanta displaced Batson, Mott, Beasy, Boyd and Angwin coming off the rookie list, and later to outstay McLean, Ackland, Bryan, Deluca, Saddington, Flint... . Don't give me crocodile tears....even if they were born in Australia and born with the game...they didn't have it...and they were discarded.

That says something about Setanta's ability, let alone courage, passion and potential.

The kids have still some ground to make up to catch up to Santy in 2009...not saying they wont thereafter.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

This whole episode might be the kick up the arse Cloke needs to take his game to the next level.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I thought Cloke was taking his game to the next level already, judging by the way he finished the season off with some big grabs etc..

I hope this doesn't scar him mentaly in some way shape or form.



This might spur Setanta on, with footballs publics eyes on him more than ever.

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

That's ridiculous, if something like this incident scars Cloke then he should be playing marbles. If he played in any game before trial by video came in he'd be in a mental institution.

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

That could be said about most young guys playing AFL...A lot has changed since then, especially people.

Some players are never the same, do you remember a bloke called Mil Hanna??

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

Long haired fella taken out early in the '93 GF?

He lost all his hair and played a blinder early in the '95 GF didn't he?

ermmmm.....!

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When's then fookin hitting start?

I am guessing you havent got anyone's side of the story, you spoke to Ratts about it did you???
Although it's hardly objective, I have one side of the story, the remarks away from media so on, it's VERY easy to pay lip service in teh press and not back it up.

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'Cause I'm J.U.D.D
I'm dynamite
J.U.D.D
And I'll win that fight
J.U.D.D
I'm a power load
J.U.D.D, Watch me explode

SB, I am sorry if I am running over old ground here, and it may be in another post, but what or where does your deep deep dislike, sometimes venomous, sometimes hatred, of Setanta come from, it's rarely objective, nearly always one eyed.
I know my view is skewed, but I know enough to see he doesnt make as much F ups as others in the backline, ok, occasional clangers, but when they happen they are highlighted more so than T bird or others, Ackland and De luca were classic examples, ADL was teh worst player I have ever seen, yet when Carlos did somehitng wrong it was labelled a jjoke, ' ah look at teh big Irishman, still coming to grips with the game' or ' that might be ok in gaelic or hurling but still getting to used to the footy', it goes on and on.
I maintain he is a useful player, not brownlow but enough to be in the panel week in week out.
My only complaint is that when Gehrig or someone like Lloyd starts messing, forarms are not enough, give him an equaliser.

_________________
'Cause I'm J.U.D.D
I'm dynamite
J.U.D.D
And I'll win that fight
J.U.D.D
I'm a power load
J.U.D.D, Watch me explode

I hated Pagan I don't hate Setanta - what I don't like about this Irish experiment is that both he and his brother are not good footballers and if they were born in Australia they wouldn't even make it to the the draft camp . I find it insulting to every kid who has busted his butt trying to win a spot in a team to be over looked because there are two players from Ireland filling a fantasy .
AFL is a highly skillful game and it takes years of playing it to read the play and play the game properly - I don't get off on this idea that you can grab any 200 cm Atheletic person and turn them into an elite footballer over the space of a couple of years - Kennelly got by because he played a game similar to ours as with Clarke - they also have speed to kill which gives them more time to hide their lack of foot skills - Aisake and Setanta don't have that .
If you pull on that Navy Blue jumper it is a privilege and a privilege reserved for the most highly skilled going around there are 22 places in that team and proberly over 200000 kids who would love the honor of filling one of those positions - These two guys were given a free ride into one of those privileges positions and I dont think for one minute that the try any harder than anyone else on that list .

So no hate for them just a distaste in my mouth over the whole concept

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Very insular view there Sydney Blue.

What do fans of American Football say when they have 3 or 4 punters playing in the NFL who up until very recently never picked up an American Football, what do they say when there are wide receivers who win college scholarships and go on to play pro football who never played in high school but could run 100 yards in 10 seconds.

What do fans of the EPL say when half the the players playing in the EPL come from European, Asian and even Australian Leagues.

You wait and see over the next 5 to 10 years there will be more Gaelic Footballers coming over here to try there luck - as the lure of a professional sporting dollar becomes even greater.

I dont think Aisake and Setanta got a "free ride" they always worked very hard at training just as hard as any other on our list.

And dont go the sook about robbing an opportunity for a local boy on the list - its the AFL who have reduced the size of playing lists over the years - and at the end of the day if any local boy was good enough they would be drafted.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Thanks for the insight SB. Good question Beano.

I never looked at it like that; and it's a fair enough position SB. I can see why you feel the way you do.

My take on the Irish experiment takes a few different points of view and facts into consideration as to why we went with the Irish experiment:

1. The Draft Penalties left us picking players on the draft list who were barely fringe players; Setanta probably had the same upside, if not more than those available at the time. There wasn't much choice at the time...it wasn't called Black Friday for just getting caught....the penalties put our club in a space no other had ever experienced (Fitzroy didn't have draft penalties imposed on them)

2. We were the shortest team in the comp bereft of talls for years, and the draft gave us no option (apart from picking at scraps which we did, mind you) so we looked elsewhere; we had to think laterally and got Setanta. Either the scraps or Setanta were going to stand up and be counted, or both. History says that only Setanta remained on the list.

3. The experiment did reap rewards for the club; who else was going to be the utility who also rucked for us in times of need at the time? We could have gone for a tall kid, but Mick Nolan types are no longer a good fit at AFL level, even if they are one of the 200000 kids busting their guts to make it. We tried getting the discards/ scraps to fill the void (Mott, McLaren, Ackland...) but none of them were as useful as Setanta (he's still on the list).

4. Of the 200000 kids available, lets face it, in a professional sport, it's not a charity, and in selecting one who was never going to make it in place of Setanta was not a good enough reason to select them in the first place; that's also a case of giving a kid a 'ride' just because he's played footy since he was a kid.

5. In professional sport you select the best you can to fit the team's requirements: Ben Graham and Sav Rocca aren't world beaters at grid iron, but fill a need...they too were an experiment. There's nothing wrong with that (maybe the parents of the kicker that didn't make it is upset). The team is bigger than the individual. At Carlton we want success and we hedge our bets to suit our charter. I don't care where they come from, as long as they have more upside than the second choice.

6. Jim Stynes, Kennelly, Smith...well they too were experiments...but they came off. So there was a precedent and I'm glad to see Jimmy Stynes win a Brownlow; he deserved it. He busted his butt. I feel priveleged to see such an underdog with everything going against him work his butt off till he reached the top; a good lesson to all 200000 kids out there aspiring to reach the top.

7. Aisake was lucky. Right time right place and the club could see some potential and required phyisical attributes; he was rookie listed as an international rookie, not a standard rookie.

8. There is an international rookie spot for teams to use if they wish, if they don't then none of the 200000 kids born in Oz can take the spot, so it's not as if they took some Ozzie kids spot.


The selection of Aisake and Setanta was within the guidelines of AFL rules; they were experiments we were entiltled to use if we wanted to...or miss out. We chose to not miss the chance, and we were in no position to turn our noses at any opportunity to add to our list at the time they were selected.

Geez, I'm glad blokes like Paul 'Molly' Meldrum didn't have to be part of any system to be considered as a 'legitimate' VFL/AFL player. He by passed 200000 kids who were busting their guts to be VFL/ AFL player but had the balls to ask for a run...that's history now. His story I do not consider as a 'free ride'. but I can see how SB's argument would well classify Molly's position as such.

How, why or when Setanta and Aisake came onto the list is now history. But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story; it's unhealthy. We move forward. We take what we can get (including a Judd, a Hadley and a Warnock where we can...who cares what opposition supporters say), and we develop them to the best of our ability. If they make it they do, if they don't they don't. Most don't make it. Lets face it Setanta has done very well and has earned the right to be on the list. It's not as if he's not been giving it 100% effort, so we have to admire that he is respecting our beloved jumper and club.

SB, the Irish are on our list through legitimate means, within the rules and guidelines of the AFL, not as you think a 'free ride'.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Two things with your post Bondi

Jim Stynes lack of football nous cost his team a shot at a flag he could have won ten brownlows but he still cost his mates a go at the ultimate prize . and on him he wouldn't survive in todays game

I feel there have been better players delisted and not picked up over the last few years to make way for these two and they have been picked on size not ability and I get tired of the old arguement that the draft penalties were the reason we did this or that - Its bullshit - We have been shit because of shit decisions made by the club and coach at the the time .
See Aisake was touted as having more upside to him than Setanta - delisted last year at 22 or 23 years of age - still very young and not one team even looked at him - so how can you say there were not better players around

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws