Ratts on SEN - 23 July

Nick · **Joined:** Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:52 pm **Posts:** 1857

Mrs Caz wrote:

Now, don't take this the wrong way...but...your profile says you are 20 years old..so...when you say our expectations are too low after the last 6 years...you are judging this on your experiences since before you were 14? And when you say "Carlton of old" you mean 1995?

No, I am judging this based on stories and anecdotes from other people as to what it used to be like. How we sacked Jezza the year after the '79 premiership, how we always demanded the best etc. It just seems a far cry from those times (obviously there's a lot more to it than that) but it just seems people now a days are judging everything based over the past few years and not where we should be getting to and striving towards. It's just a personal observation but it bugs me when everyone gives the same reason for us having a "good" year by saying "we are better than last year".

Maybe I seem more impatient than others but that'd be the case when basically you go through your whole secondary schooling life (the time that all kids are deeply into footy) supporting a club that can hardly get a win.

Quote:

we are just starting on an up-curve.......won't be too much longer

I hope so.

club29 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:26 pm

You read collingwood boards and they are bagging Malthouse. You read WestCoast and they get stuck into worsfold (who could forget his coaching blunders of last years finals)........all fans have issues with their coaches 'cept geelong (last 2 years) and the swans go easy on Roos who outcoached ratts by 2 pts the other day.

Everyone has their ideas on how things should be done but the coach makes the calls. If the coaches calls are different than the way you would do things thats ok. Their are a number of ways to skin a cat.

I trust Ratts. I dont see the headless chook bit. Players in the modern game have more than one role. In my opinion the players are getting a good football education and i am told the develpment program at the club is fantastic by people who would know. I am also told that the board/CEO and others who count are more than happy with Ratten so far and are confident he can take our list further.

Dont let any pot stiring types bug you. Spending one gameday in the rooms does not make people experts or their thoughts fact.

Go Blues !

ryan2000 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:30 pm

Nick wrote:

verbs wrote:

The Carlton of today compared to the Carlton of 12 months ago are worlds apart, for the better. Some of that has to do with Ratten.

But are they apart enough? That is the big question.

Far apart enough when you consider that it was only a year ago today when we were still pretty much favorites for the wooden spoon.

One year on and we're still a chance for the finals....... the BLOODY TOP 8 FOR CHRIST SAKE! :shock:

Yup..............Apart enough for my liking.

Not where i want my team to be (cause i always want the best) but in terms of where we were 12 months ago........ far apart enough for me.

Nick · **Joined:** Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:52 pm **Posts:** 1857

lily of laguna wrote:

Not everything can change overnight. Just because there is a new gym doesnt make the young guys any older or more experienced on the footy field.

We are the youngest team in age and experience and we are coming from a longer way back than either bombers or tiges, we are currently ahead of them and have been in a winning position in all but Brissy and Geelong games this year.

Its not just the win/loss record, its the way we stay in a game, never give up, and finish strongly no matter who we play.

Tell me how is that not a major improvement on last year, and how can that not excite and please us supporters, sure we arent winning every game but we are coming good and will only get better.

Whats more we are beginning to scare the shit out of the opposition, and they know it wont be long before they feel the pain of the last 6 years.

Low expectations

pfft....

Once again, I am not saying we haven't improved from last year, I am asking whether we have improved enough

Richmond finished lower than us last year and didn't add Judd and Stevens but are ahead of us.

You see clubs like Essendon* and they are talking top 4 in 2 years, we can laugh as much as we like at them but they are setting high standards for themselves. If you don't demand, you don't get.

I too am happy with the improvement (which Carlton supporter wouldn't be?), I am just wondering whether we are setting our standards too low with the "development year" this year and a "top 8 finish" the next year. I personally won't be happy with anything less than a top 6 position next year pending injuries.

AGRO · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:41 pm

Nick wrote:

Richmond finished lower than us last year and didn't add Judd and Stevens but are ahead of us.

You see clubs like Essendon* and they are talking top 4 in 2 years, we can laugh as much as we like at them but they are setting high standards for themselves. If you don't demand, you don't get.

Just what Richmond and Essendon* need is another 9th 10th finish. :lol:

there delusional supporters and administrators will be mutually satisfying each other again. :roll:

We are travelling very nicely thank you very much and will be way ahead in the long term. :wink:

Wolfe · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:43 pm

You are comparing to Richmond Nick who 2-3 years ago was meant to be on par with the Hawks 2-3 years later and Richmond are still outside of the 8 coming from 2007 Spooners

The Hawks are top 4 so where the tigers should have been 2-3 years on is nothing to flash. Blues on other hand last 2-3 years we havnt been able to get more 3-4 wins we have won 7 this year with still a chance of winning a few more that to me shows we are making definate in roads and have seen several players step up this year.

Blues2005 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm **Posts:** 2123

It's a fine line. It might be 'ifs and buts', but one more miserly goal last weekend, the Blues move to an 8-8 record, Ratts would be a genius for masterminding a victory over a top-4 side, we'd be talking about beating the Bulldogs this week, finals would be a genuine possibility etc. But we lost and it's a very different picture on here. I was and still am disappointed we lost a game that, on the day, we should have won. But things need to be kept in perspective.

I think we've come quite a long way, though obviously there is still a long way to go. Look at the first 16 games. I think if we were realistic, if we were told at the start of the season that after 16 rounds we'd be 7-9, most if not all of us would have taken that. But perhaps more pleasing is the fact, as others have said, that we've been in a winning position in all our games except two. Only Geelong, clearly the best team in the AFL at the moment and strong favourites to go back-to-back, have really had our measure. Brisbane was the other game where, after a terrible start, we just couldn't get into the game. Other than these two games we've generally been competitive. We should have beaten Sydney on Sunday, a battle-hardened, experienced side who will again finish top 4.

We as supporters go into games now thinking we are a genuine chance to actually win many of our games, as opposed to previous years where realistically, we would be happy not to be thrashed. This shift in mindset is evidence of the progress we either expressly or impliedly believe that the team has made/is still making.

Long way to go yet, but we will get there.

grrofunger · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:55 am

Blues2005 wrote:

It's a fine line. It might be 'ifs and buts', but one more miserly goal last weekend, the Blues move to an 8-8 record, Ratts would be a genius for masterminding a victory over a top-4 side, we'd be talking about beating the Bulldogs this week, finals would be a genuine possibility etc. But we lost and it's a very different picture on here. I was and still am disappointed we lost a game that, on the day, we should have won. But things need to be kept in perspective.

I think we've come quite a long way, though obviously there is still a long way to go. Look at the first 16 games. I think if we were realistic, if we were told at the start of the season that after 16 rounds we'd be 7-9, most if not all of us would have taken that. But perhaps more pleasing is the fact, as others have said, that we've been in a winning position in all our games except two. Only Geelong, clearly the best team in the AFL at the moment and strong favourites to go back-to-back, have really had our measure. Brisbane was the other game where, after a terrible start, we just couldn't get into the game. Other than these two games we've generally been competitive. We should have beaten Sydney on Sunday, a battle-hardened, experienced side who will again finish top 4.

We as supporters go into games now thinking we are a genuine chance to actually win many of our games, as opposed to previous years where realistically, we would be happy not to be thrashed. This shift in mindset is evidence of the progress we either expressly or impliedly believe that the team has made/is still making.

Long way to go yet, but we will get there.

ooh one of the better posts in what has been a dull week

TianaCon · **Joined:** Fri May 23, 2008 11:47 am **Posts:** 651

grrofunger wrote:

Blues2005 wrote:

It's a fine line. It might be 'ifs and buts', but one more miserly goal last weekend, the Blues move to an 8-8 record, Ratts would be a genius for masterminding a victory over a top-4 side, we'd be talking about beating the Bulldogs this week, finals would be a genuine possibility etc. But we lost and it's a very different picture on here. I was and still am disappointed we lost a game that, on the day, we should have won. But things need to be kept in perspective.

I think we've come quite a long way, though obviously there is still a long way to go. Look at the first 16 games. I think if we were realistic, if we were told at the start of the season that after 16 rounds we'd be 7-9, most if not all of us would have taken that. But perhaps more pleasing is the fact, as others have said, that we've been in a winning position in all our games except two. Only Geelong, clearly the best team in the AFL at the moment and strong favourites to go back-to-back, have really had our measure. Brisbane was the other game where, after a terrible start, we just couldn't get into the game. Other than these two games we've generally been competitive. We should have beaten Sydney on Sunday, a battle-hardened, experienced side who will again finish top 4.

We as supporters go into games now thinking we are a genuine chance to actually win many of our games, as opposed to previous years where realistically, we would be happy not to be thrashed. This shift in mindset is evidence of the progress we either expressly or impliedly believe that the team has made/is still making.

Long way to go yet, but we will get there.

ooh one of the better posts in what has been a dull week

Yep. What he said.

About the footy anyway.

:shock:

You are kidding Grro. Dull :shock:

There's been alien sightings & landings, even communication of some kind. However they had to return home, ushered away calmly & refreshingly.

There's been very spirited debate over many wide ranging issues with what appears to be some type of sanctions enforced. Not sure there!

Although I'm not really sure what's happened this week I'm sure everything will return to normal soon, I think I'm a bit dazed.

I seem to have lost time when entering the Bryce Gibbs thread. Not sure what was going on there.

verbs · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:39 am

lily of laguna wrote:

Nick wrote:

verbs wrote:

The Carlton of today compared to the Carlton of 12 months ago are worlds apart, for the better. Some of that has to do with Ratten.

But are they apart enough? That is the big question.

Have we made enough progress or are our expectations simply too low? People saying "but we are better than last year", like hell we are better! We had to be, last year was an absolute disaster under Pagan. We've got new development coaches, new fitness staff and helluva lot more facilities to improve. Don't compare to last year, otherwise Ratts would've been sacked.

Don't forget we have added Judd and Stevens from last year + Murphy and Gibbs' natural progression being outstanding + Fevola uninjured for most of the year + like I said earlier new facilities and a lot more staff.

Is it enough to get just 3 more wins despite after adding all the above (just ONE more than Essendon* and same as last year's wooden spoonersor should we be demanding more??

I think some of our supporters' expectations are too low after the past 6 years and we are too easily satisfied (unlike the Carlton of old).

Not everything can change overnight. Just because there is a new gym doesnt make the young guys any older or more experienced on the footy field.

We are the youngest team in age and experience and we are coming from a longer way back than either bombers or tiges, we are currently ahead of them and have been in a winning position in all but Brissy and Geelong games this year.

Its not just the win/loss record, its the way we stay in a game, never give up, and finish strongly no matter who we play.

Tell me how is that not a major improvement on last year, and how can that not excite and please us supporters, sure we arent winning every game but we are coming good and will only get better.

Whats more we are beginning to scare the shit out of the opposition, and they know it wont be long before they feel the pain of the last 6 years.

Low expectations

pfft....

Nicely put lily.

It's funny how people measure their expectations against what they perceive others expectations are. To be honest, you can't know what anyone elses expectations really are, so why waste your time complaining about other peoples expectations not being high enough?

What's being debated is how much we have improved in the past 12 months, and how much, if any, that has to do with Ratten. I for one think he has played an important part in our development this year. And like the team he will only get better.

fmurphy30 · **Joined:** Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:02 pm **Posts:** 1649

ryan2000 wrote:

Nick wrote:

verbs wrote:

The Carlton of today compared to the Carlton of 12 months ago are worlds apart, for the better. Some of that has to do with Ratten.

But are they apart enough? That is the big question.

Far apart enough when you consider that it was only a year ago today when we were still pretty much favorites for the wooden spoon.

One year on and we're still a chance for the finals....... the BLOODY TOP 8 FOR CHRIST SAKE! :shock:

Yup..............Apart enough for my liking.

Not where i want my team to be (cause i always want the best) but in terms of where we were 12 months ago........ far apart enough for me.

100 point losses = 0

10 goal losses = 0

Biggest loss 56 points to Geelong. I'd call that progress. Massive progress.

The best thing this year is that I've gone to the footy expecting a good game and to be competitive and the boys haven't disappointed. It's not all wins and losses. We are a lot better than the garbage we served up for the previous 5-6 years.

We will not tear the competition a new one next year, but we should be good enough to get to the bottom reaches of the 8.

We are on the way.

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6431

We have improved

These things take time

Some expectations havent been met

IMO

Wiggins
Russell
Cloke
Bentick

arnt good enough and have had enough chances to show it

Guys like Benjamin, Aisake havent kicked on or they arnt up to it

As I wrote in the Bullants column there is obvious deficincies in the reserve comp which hinders the development of these players

We still need a turn over of about 12 players and with this draft having a lot of depth and the GC and WS coming in its important Hughes gets it right this year.

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:25 am

club29 wrote:

You read collingwood boards and they are bagging Malthouse. You read WestCoast and they get stuck into worsfold (who could forget his coaching blunders of last years finals)........all fans have issues with their coaches 'cept geelong (last 2 years) and the swans go easy on Roos who outcoached ratts by 2 pts the other day.

Everyone has their ideas on how things should be done but the coach makes the calls. If the coaches calls are different than the way you would do things thats ok. Their are a number of ways to skin a cat.

I trust Ratts. I dont see the headless chook bit. Players in the modern game have more than one role. In my opinion the players are getting a good football education and i am told the develpment program at the club is fantastic by people who would know. I am also told that the board/CEO and others who count are more than happy with Ratten so far and are confident he can take our list further.

Dont let any pot stiring types bug you. Spending one gameday in the rooms does not make people experts or their thoughts fact.

Go Blues !

You trust Ratts???

Why?????

Cos he coached Norwood in Ringwood???

Like whats his track record for allowing you to say "I trust Ratts"?

He has a sensational history and track record as a coach????

zoneman · **Joined:** Fri May 20, 2005 12:03 pm **Posts:** 765

club29 wrote:

You read collingwood boards and they are bagging Malthouse. You read WestCoast and they get stuck into worsfold (who could forget his coaching blunders of last years finals)........all fans have issues with their coaches 'cept geelong (last 2 years) and the swans go easy on Roos who outcoached ratts by 2 pts the other day.

Everyone has their ideas on how things should be done but the coach makes the calls. If the coaches calls are different than the way you would do things thats ok. Their are a number of ways to skin a cat.

I trust Ratts. I dont see the headless chook bit. Players in the modern game have more than one role. In my opinion the players are getting a good football education and i am told the develpment program at the club is fantastic by people who would know. I am also told that the board/CEO and others who count are more than happy with Ratten so far and are confident he can take our list further.

Dont let any pot stiring types bug you. Spending one gameday in the rooms does not make people experts or their thoughts fact.

Go Blues !

POW Clubber! POW

zoneman · **Joined:** Fri May 20, 2005 12:03 pm **Posts:** 765

For the majority of us, from where we sit we can only go by gut feeling how a coach is, especially so early in one's coaching career.

The most important thing I recognize is that he has connected with the players as a coach should. He has the right blend of authority and distance over approachability and friendship.

He is going to make mistakes. All coaches do, but from where I see it, he is doing a good job. He's committed, he's dedicated, and he is learning, IMO. At this point, you can't ask for much more.

molsey · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:59 am

Synbad wrote:

You trust Ratts???

Why?????

Cos he coached Norwood in Ringwood???

Like whats his track record for allowing you to say "I trust Ratts"?

He has a sensational history and track record as a coach????

Synbad we knew we weren't getting that. For whatever reason that decision was made and now we have Ratten. We have a range of things that the fans can judge him on and a range of private things that only members of the Club would see.

Ratten's public image is very good - he is enthused in press conferences, very happy to be there and talks up the Club. Compare to previous admin - TICK. Compare to other first year coaches - TICK. Compare to senior coaches - Still very good.

Ratten's game plans / matches - we probably wont get to a landing here until he either wins a premiership or gets sacked. There's a strong argument that we're starting a long way back but there's equally some problems (of which you've talked about a few). team selection is my main gripe this year but not so much what they're doing.

Ratten's impact on the players - TICK. They are dead set keen all of the time. Yes, some of this is general improvement, some of it is Judd, some of it is maturity, but Ratten doesn't have a negative impact.

Ratten's regeneration of list and promotion of debutees - TICK. To some extent this had to happen but equally all of our first year draftees have been given material games. We had 6 or 7 debuts by Round 10!

On what we see we can have confidence. Whether he is the best coach for us or not we will most probably only know in hindsight.

camel · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:03 am

What molsey said. :-D

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:07 am

Look im not saying he will or wont make it...
im not impressed so far....

he has his favourites and theyre obvious.

he also has a pretty good list even if its a tinge green....

i wouldnt come out and say "i trust ratts"... not because i wouldnt if i loaned him $20 to come back and pay me back.. he most likely would.. and i would...

... but the problem is his background in coaching is not really what i would consider adequate....

... secondly if he was knights wed be going to town on him right now...

... third .. my biggest beef is its a season gone and we havent addressed some massive deficiencies...we have gone in week in week out with cloke and kreuzer... and week in week out they get smashed in the game and physically...
.. our movement of the ball going forward is shithouse....and our forward structures are lame...

... and a big beef i have.......dropping some players.. and making others untouchable...

EVERYONE should be held to the same standards of staying in a team...

The regeneration of the list happened organically.. thats what hapens when you come last for a sustained period of time...

nothing to do with Ratten..

camel · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:19 am

I think that post is fair enough Synbad.

But the board only gave Ratten a 2 year deal, so it is encumbent on him to prove that he is capable of a longer deal. Given the coaching options available at the end of last year I think Ratten was a perfectly acceptable choice. He has reintroduced pride and a love for the club back to the coaching table, something we sorely needed.

If Ratts only gets a two year gig and hands someone a potential premiership list on a platter, so be it.

This year is not the year to be judging Ratts harshly (I don't think). Next year will be the key (obviously). How will our guys react to starting a year where they are expected to push for finals, rather than simply not coming last. More importantly, how will Ratten guide the team through such expectations?

We've made good progress so far this year. Yes, there is room for improvement. The ruck is an obvious area, although, apart from agreeing with you that Kreuzer should probably be spared a little more, we are not really flush with options. That said, Hampson getting more game time would be something I'd like to see, but that's from my outside viewpoint.

Yes, we also need to desperately improve our ball movement inside/into the F50. But these things take time. We just can't flick a switch and make everything right. We had so many deficiencies that perhaps the priority of addressing our forwards was down the list a bit. I'm not sure, but it would be a reasonable assumption I reckon.

The point is, our progress this year may not have the silver shine on it that we may yearn for. However, we've earned respect of the football world, our players all talk about what a great place it is to be and our coach loves the club.

It's great that you want more, and that you're asking questions about Ratten's capabilities.

Just don't forget to stop and smell the roses once in a while.

molsey · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:20 am

Synbad wrote:

... and a big beef i have.......dropping some players.. and making others untouchable...

EVERYONE should be held to the same standards of staying in a team...

The regeneration of the list happened organically.. thats what hapens when you come last for a sustained period of time...

nothing to do with Ratten..

That's my main gripe too. Edwards in and out, Ackland in at all, Hampson in and out..really doesn't look good. I think to a large extent he has been hamstring by list structure and the shortage of forwards we have (and those that we have being too similar) but having gripes doesnt mean he's failing. There's probably good reasons for most of it.

Regeneration of a list by picks does happen organically but seeing them out there doesn't. As we saw with the previous admin.

Ratts on SEN - 23 July

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