I will admit that I am not a fan of Stevens as I believe he is an average player at best but I do believe he has a role to play in the side. However, two main points have worried me about him and they have become evident over the last two weeks.

1. WHY does he not play well with Judd in the team?

and

2. WHY does Ratten play him deep in defence in the last qtr in a tight game when his last qtrs have been his best?

1. He's jealous.
2. Ratts is teaching him the defensive of his game.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

If that was it DUC strange time to do it!

Hi Cj.

I'll say, maybe Stevo is more noticeable when Judd's not there.
Maybe he has to pick up the slack that Judd's hole leaves when he's not there. Maybe he hates Juddy's guts & thinks when he's not there - I'll show you, & when he is there he thinks - ya big JERK, I'm not playing properly now - who knows. Someone should ask him. All I know is I'd rather have both in the team than just one.

On point 2, IMVHO, Ratts is simply a new coach, learning the caper at the highest level against experienced, premiership winning coaches & maybe he's still learning (along with the assistant coaches) how to play one of 22 different players in any particular role at any particular time, against any particular opposition. Alot to take in IMO.

Whaddya think?

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"You will always miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- Michael Jordan

Stevens may not have played a 4 quarter game yesterday, although, that may not have been all his doing, as noted. But all the experts criticising his effort must have missed the first quarter. He didn't rack up the possessions so much, but he was in and under for a fair bit of it.

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G'day TC, always a pleasure.

I just think that Stevo is a laconic personality, it takes something new and special to get him to the next level. Captaincy obviously does that. The issue with asking him anything you will get the standard answer that they have all been trained to give.

As for Ratts, you may be right but I do not see the point of leaving him in a back pocket in the last qtr of a tight game. Surely the win would of done a lot more for the team that teaching Stevo defensive football, which I think is a waste of time at his age.

I reckon Ratten lost it at the selection table, going in to tall with less midfield flexibility and without a genuine small defender being Browne or Anderson.

C'mon cb, I know you have some sort of connection with Stevo and want to go in to bat for him but he's a highly remunerated vice captain who's effort/output should be consistantly higher than what it currently is.

No doubting his class, it's his consistancy of effort that's causing concern.

You have no idea about football.

Russell dropped a easy chestmark 30m out cos he heard footsteps. Sydney get the ball, 3 possessions n kick a goal in the next 10 secs when the game is in the ballance.

Stevens has had a great season so far.

His last last 12 rounds in possession totals
11, 18, 26, 30, 20, 19, 26 , 28 , 27, 28, 24

Not bad hey?

You really have no idea if you wanna drop one of your better midfielders, then you got no idea. he was tagged on the weekend. When Stevens and Judd are tagged you know Gibbs, Murphy and the other players get a free run. Or would you rather Stevens gets dropped and Murphy gets the tag?

If you wanna drop Stevens, then drop judd, he only got 14 possessions

Stupidest thread i have ever seen

Possessions last 11 games.

Stevens - 11,18 ,26, 30, 20, 19, 26, 28, 27, 28, 24

Hes had 3 games under 20 possessions.

Pull the knives out boys, or are we the new richmond supporters.

How about u put the knives in carrazo, cloke and russell instead, who don't deserve a game.

Stevens is allowed to have one bad game like judd. He barely got a possession in the 2nd half

You maybe right about all that CJ. I don't know. I've never coached a football team at any level so... All I can hope is that if Ratts did make a mistake, he acknowledges it, as I'm sure he will do, with his assitants when they review the game & their performance, which I'm sure they do & will, & by doing so, he/they doesn't/don't make the same mistake again or at least minimise the risk of doing so. Football, like life, & learning about both, is alot about learning through trial & error. I know you know that.

With Stevo, as with any player, in short, you get what you get. Is he laconic? I can see that.
However, as I've stated before - Is what he gives the Carlton FC better than what he doesn't? IMO, it is.

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"You will always miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- Michael Jordan

What connection is this? I certainly don't know about it. I was right behind hammer on the "But he gets the best tagger every week" bandwagon a year or two back and would have been happy to see Stevens traded. I've never rated him highly, but I am able to acknowledge and respect when a bloke is having a go.

I have no problems with the comments on his consistency, I'd like it to get better as well. I just reckon people scrutinise our defeats too much in search of scapegoats. In theory, there's nothing wrong with that, looking for areas of improvement is exactly what we need to do.

But, c'mon, Stevens was well tagged by a side known for their ability to stop their opponents. Stevo maybe could have run harder later in the game, but in the first quarter, at least, he was trying pretty bloody hard I thought.

It's like a player gets labelled something by the "experts" and every time a player repeats a negative aspect of his game that gets harped on about over and over again, yet any good they do is just ignored.

Same thing is happening with Fisher.

Sure, both guys have room for improvement after last week's game, but they're not alone there. And more importantly I am sure they are aware of this and will be doing a shitload more to address it during the week than anyone else here will be doing to improve their work output.

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Can't disagree. In my opinion Stevens future is as a role player off the bench. Come on at periods during the game when the heat is out and use his run and skills. He is on our list and will be there next year so we have to get the best out of him. He has never been and will never be an in an under player so why make him? But as you say I am not a coach either.

As for Ratten I was not impressed with the selection process for his appointment. He has done some things that I don't understand and has on several occassions contradicted himself. BUT, he is our coach now and deserves a chance and he has another 14 months to prove himself.

I personally would like to see us chase a Buckley or alike to assist. There desire and strong will is what we need.

]
and you do cos you know you can read stats...great. So how's the coaching job going then?

and rather than looking at the thread, try reading it, I was not really going for pictoral quality.

But here, try this as a read.

Do you think stevens is as good as he can be?

do you think stevens is more important to our side than JR?

so who would you put thought into in trying to help them?

Or do you subscribe to the theory - just drop the kids over and over and leave the older blokes alone?

Stevens in a leader - how well does he lead?

Or maybe this thread should be - should Stevens be in our leadership group?

How's that...oh and remember I know nothing about football - particularly trying to draw it.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Ratts has made some mistakes, but what I loved about Ratts appointment & since, is that he has brought the "Carlton" back to the playing group, not flowering shinboner crap (what is that anyway - bloody made up name) & for mine that's far more importnt for this group than any mistake he has or will make.

I like ya idea on Stevo as he gets older (no offence Nick). He could be our pinch hitter off the bench with such devastating kicking skills, but I still think he gets in & under enuf. Watch the first quarter again & specifically him & I think you will see what I mean. As he gets older & more battle weary (not yet he's only 28/29 without looking it up) he won't be as effective at doing that but that happens to all players alike.

Who knows though, the demographic of the team may be changing at such a rate with the current steep learning curve of kids, that the MC at the end of the year say to Stevo, sorry mate, we just don't need what you give us, or we have it in such n such, & trade him. If so, he is regarded highly enuf to attrack a very nice offering (sorry to talk about you like your a piece of meat Nicky but thats AFL).

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"You will always miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- Michael Jordan

just a little thing

again

I was very happy with the effort on the weekend - still am.

but that effort of stevo's in the last bugged the absolute shit out of me - those efforts always do - especially then, when the game is there to be won by the side at pushes itself the hardest.

How would stevo's effort have gone down with the swan's players?

My take is that they would not accept it.

Should we?

Or, again, rather than going of (you know all sort of name-cally-cally cos its easier than thinking) because I asked the question, tell me, are you prepared to accept those efforts - say in a final?

Can they not be remedied?

Or is there some other way?

and remember, this is just a chat - I actually couldn't give a @#$%&! either way, but you know, thought it might be worth a chat.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

There is no doubt Stevo is a classy midfielder however this does not excuse hime from being accountable for his man when the opposition has the ball.....Stevo does not run as hard when we haven't got the ball...It is his consistancy which is in question, not his ball getting ability....As for being a Leader, well he must lead all the time not just when it is convenient to him.......

having said all the above, we can't afford to be without him at this point in time as ther is no doubt that Gibbs, Murphy and Simpson benifit from not being tagged and they would be tagged if both Judd and Stevo were not in the team....

I love your PASSION db?

If he's a problem, he'll be found wanting & won't last much longer - not at Carlton anyway. We don't tolerate it. Never have, never will.

The reason we're the best/most successful (etc) is winners & greats always have greater expectations on themselves than the others - That's wot sets them apart. Blues fans & supporters are no different. We set high expectations on our players & so we should.

If he aint no good he will be found out & you won't have anything else to worry about, except maybe the guy that replaces him

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"You will always miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- Michael Jordan

which brings us back to the start - is that smart by the club? Just leave him as is and then replace him? Is there no way to help him improve himself in those little areas when the things he does he does so well?

In a way this touches again on the JR problem.

With the difficulty in list management (and especially with the new clubs coming on board) just shedding 6 or more players a year is a poor example of list management (though i think we need to do it again this year )
so finding ways to get the best out of every player (and especially your better players like stevo) is paramount.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Nick Davis come to save us.

1. Your comments re Carrazzo, Russell and Cloke portray you as the Richmond wanka. How hypocritical can you get?

2. If you think Stevens played anywhere near Carrazzo's level yesterday it is you that has no clues.

3. Stevens has had more than one bad game this year and possessions don't count for everything.

I think Ratts made a huge statement by leaving him in defence in the last quarter. We all know he doesn't rate Bentcik as high as others in the side yet quite happily went with him instead. Read into it what you will.