We're one of the worst teams in the comp and will be until the kids take the next step. Ratten and Judd can't change that.

First of all...what a shit game of footy played by both teams. I thought I was watching the VFA reserves 1978. The ball handling and movement of the footy was...mmmmm..not AFL standard.

The avalanche of forward thrusts had nothing to do with the backline. I thought the backline held its own. Just needs to be more attacking, and that would come from midfield support.

Good effort to run out the game and score 6. Should have kicked a lot of the shots at goal...cost us!

PROS

I still love the Old Dark Navy Blues
I still believe we will get better and move up the ladder as we develop (players and game plan)
That first quarter.

PROS: WAITE is a star; no question. No one in our team could have done a better job on Reiwodlt. He's our best CHB by a long stretch.
CONS: Waite is the answer at CHF. He has a huge heart, huge leap and never say die attitude. Hard to match up on.

PROS:

Backs:

Waite BOG.
Bower is our only attcking backman.
Thornton was solid on his man.
Simmo looked good (in patches)

Forwards

Great to have Fisher presenting again.
Betts' best game in the Dark Navy Blue.
Edwards...OK

Midfield


Gibbs is class.
Murphy is class.
Hammer is a superb athelete (and he's not 20yo yet)
Cloke has a huge Navy Blue heart

CONS:

Seriously missed Jamison; that's the way I saw it right from the start. Needed Setanta in a more attacking role (HB). Would have been the right match up for Gherig. (not saying Setanta was disgraced, but looking purely from the match up pt of view).

I'm not even going to bother about the rest. Really ordinary in the leg speed department. What happened to the handball at all costs and running the ball together in packs we saw in the preseason. We've gone into our shells.

Really depressing as the game wore on.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

TEAM PROS
Backline - See in the first quarter when the ball wasn't coming down at a hundred mile an hour, we were fantastic, zoning of opposition players and helping mates. Later in the game we couldn't do that because of how quick it was coming in. BUT we still did great down there. Any marks they took, we were right there and I though waite, setanta, bower thorton were fantastic.

Midfields first 20min. this is what we have to look forward to. It is amazing when we run the other way too. We made st Kilda look slow and unable to find options. Sadly we just ran out of puff because skill errors crept in and we couldn't keep it in the forward 50. Once the skill errors are eradicated, and we have a few more options up forward, plus some crumbers to keep the thing in, we are going to kill it.

CONS
Forward line pressure - There is no team in the league hat lets the ball out of it's forward 50 faster than us. I still don't now what we do differently here or why it happens. Maybe because we take so long to get it into the 50, that the opposition ALWAYS has a million and one players back or siting in the corridor ready for us to stuff up and not provide any pressure.

Skill and Playing on - until this gets better we will always be down the ladder. I don't think we are less fit than the opposition ( judd, stevens, hadlee excluded but will get to this). It is just our midfield is basically doing shuttles from forward to back 50 more than any other team. WHY? Because
1 - Poor skill turns the ball over.

2 - Many of our players are expecting a turn over, so don't run hard enough into space because they know that will be just further they have to run back when it is turned over ( net effect - we have fewer options when looking up forward)

3- Our midfield is UNDERDONE. How bad is it when you are playing with ONE midfielder that lets their opponent run off and get ball. But at the moment we have 2 to 3 on the ground at all times doing this. Catch 22. Judd, hadlee, stevens need fitness, but we really shouldn't be playing them. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that until they are fit, we will keep getting pumped (except for next week which we will win by 15 just cause we actually will back ourselves)

4- Young kids, less strength in bodies. the rest of our midfield and team is made up of highly skilled yet less physical young players who just cannot compete in the hard stuff YET against match hardened MEN. They will eventually but now, they have to reply on skill or a lucky bounce to have half a chance on on one with a stronger, tougher opposition player.

PLAYER PROS
Waite - 8/10 YES yes yes

Setanta - 7.5/ 10 I dont care what the papers say today. Gehrig didn't dominate. With the speed the ball was coming in and thus our other backman having to play individually on St Kildas other forwards rather than being able to asses the situation and zone off. Setanta did a bloody great job. When he has the ball, he is one of the few players we have now where I am confident the disposal will be great. And what about the brains to stand 3m to left of gherigs mark. Awesome. Please please leave him back or forward.

Gibbs - 7.5/10 Sure 2 OB on the full, and yes he held the ball up a lot instead of playing on quickly. But HOW composed is this guy? How skilled?

Thorton - 9/10. Kosi too. In a game where ALL the St kilda forwards should have dominated. Apart from the first 20 NONE of them were double teamed, kosi was SO outplayed, they had to give him a run in the ruck to let him get the ball LOL.

Bower - 7/10 Yes he bombs it long. But defensively he was great. Is getting caught less, while still backing himself to run it out

Murph - 6/10 I love how no one can lay a hand on him when he gets the ball. Just weaves back around etc til an option presents. Great skills and the only midfielder who played a full game where I really cannot say a bad word. The 6/10 is only because I rate him tough because I know there is a LOT of improvement left.

Cloke -6.5/10 gee he gives it is all. dropped back into the spot and helped out the backline well a couple of times and how bout that rocket pass in the last. Awesome. But gee he gets towelled up in the ruck. not our answer there. How bout as an imposing CHF. Just stick him there, get him to present. You don't have to be fast to do this. As soon as we have one player doing this regularly and taking marks and converting the options, the opposition CHB will actually pay them some respect and not zone off onto Fev. At the moment, I reckon opposition players just let us have space in the nowhere areas and our forwards lead out to there. Our midfield don't want to continually kick out wide NOWHERE near the goals, so they kick to the centre where the only forward who knows what is going on and that the opposition respects ( FEV) gets tripled teamed

Pffeifer - 6.5/10 We have found one here

Betts -6/10 chased hard. Is never front and centre though. Does anyone know why not?

JR 6.5/10 -I dont rate him, but for what he has shown in the past this was one of his best games. soft though.

Fisher - 6.5/10 Welcome back son

PLAYER CONS
Stevens - 1/10 - I rate him very highly so this is why so low. He NEVER runs the other way, the opposition knows it and thus when they go forward it is like having an extra man every time.

Judd - 1.5/10 - Hit his targets, ran to the right spots, linked well. BUT not FIT enough and couldn't run the other way or run at all. Obviously we are gonna stick with him, but should he be rested until right. I have a similar injury and I know my speed is not back, I can't kick long and every week I play I set my self back another week. I can feel it in my groin. Every week I do the rehab and don't play it feels a million dollars. I don't know the answer here but I know if I was an elite athlete I would seriously consider waiting til I am right.

Simpson - tough game for him.

Edwards -4/10. Good hands but why lead to the spot on the ground where you have 0 confidence in kicking it from? I can guarantee the opposition backman will show him the spot all day and let him go there. If he spoils him all good, If edwards marks it, its a point. Pretty low risk player for an opposition player to be playing on. the 4/10 is higher than what it should be because he is new. FTR I lie this guy too, good speed and hands.

Hadlee -3.5/10 composed but not fit enough ATM.


Fev -4/10 not sure whether to put him in pros or cons, but went with cons. I feel so sorry for him. Imagine every time you have a chance of getting the ball having to beat 4 guys. I would spit the dummy too, it is bad enough with one player holding you back etc. However, on the other hand, he is a professional athlete and should rise to the occasion and not cry about poor me etc. So that is why he is in the cons.

THE TURN AROUND

There is no main area. Our midfield has players who are underdone, and holds the ball up. BUT it does this because it has NO confidence in the ability of out forwards to take the mark OR hold it in. So catch 22, we hold the ball up letting more opposition players get back and thus making it more difficult for someone to take a grab. This won't change until

1 - we actually start getting some speedy movement down to our forwards. One of our forwards other than FEV has a big day and therefore gains the confidence of the midfield as a viable target. ( If we had an imposing CHF ala revolting, this would be great). Put yourself i our midfields shoes. Remember when you are playing and there is a player in the forward line you have no confidence in marking or kicking a goal even if he is free you kick to th player you trust ( well we only have fev).

Judd and Stevens and hadlee are back to full fitness ( and or bentick comes in and creates more stoppages to give our guys a rest) I see Hadlee or bentick as the same role. Sadly Bentick is not 100% fitness now either or I am sure he would be in and hadlee in the two's.

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Window = Open

Club 29 -
Teams are just walking it through the midfield once all the blokes who have to cover for those above have run out of steam.

Exactly right, you said in 20 words what I tried to say in a million. Sorry for clogging the forum. Just read club 29's comment.

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Window = Open

What was sticks doing in the coaches box??

We will not move forward until the old foes move on and we inject some forward thinking, innovative personalities into the club. We are a club stuck and run like in the 1980's.

What's wrong with having a coach from outside of the club.

I thought Pratt poached Greg Swann over to run this club... Oh how i wished Greg Swann got his way with the coaching decision but obviously his direction was interfered with and a decision was made.

Melvey, how do you know what Swann really wanted?

Good point.

We are playing like Hawthorn a couple of years back. When we start the running game, handball, play on at all costs we will see dramatic improvement in our forward line.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Unbelievable! Thornton's disposal is @#$%&! RUBBISH!!!!!!! At least Bower goes up the @#$%&! middle of the ground and his one terrible disposal is in the forwardline, not out on a wing, just outside our defensive 50. Geez I must be blind, but to put Thornton as a positive when you're criticising Bower's disposal is beyond me.

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

it was reported back then and even mentioned last week on radio that Swanny wanted to interview several candidates for the senior position and not just for assistants.

I don't understand how you can appoint a coach with no experience and no idea how any other club goes about it. Thats right we flew him to the UK to see how manchester goes about it. How bloody wank is that

If the club were so convinced then why were attempts made to have Chris Connoly, Wayne Brittain and Spud Frawley appointed as a mentor role for Brett.

This club will not move forward until they stop handing out jobs for the old boys. We need an outside influence hence why Greg Swann is the shinning light, he has come from a club with fantastic and forward thinking management. We go backwards and hand out jobs to the old boys. There's a time and need for that and thats called the spirit of Carlton and keep it at that.

This thread is so depressing. Frankie introduced this thread years ago so that we could find some light at an otherwise dark time. I hope that Ratts has a plan and the courage of his convictions to stick to it. My big problem is that there are moments in games where we look a million bucks and then we concede a few and we have no answer to stop the rot. Clearly HF is an area that needs to be addressed. Hopefully, Kreuzer can address some of those issues (although it is a big ask for an 18 year old)

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I send an SOS to the world

I've heard it all...

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--------------------------------------------------------"The only one that could ever love me..."

Not very much of the above is true.

These comments astound me. WHY is our midfield underdone? Judd is the only one with an excuse.

Stevens has had a FULL pre season, he actually started running in August last year. Why is he so unfit.

Carrazzo, Murphy, Simpson, Gibbs, Scotland, Jackson etc should be VERY fit, there is NO excuse.

Didn't our fitness coach state when he arrived that only 2 players were fit enough to play AFL, WHY, WHY, WHY???[/quote]

Encouraging:

Waite - very good
Cloke - honest effort
Hadley - showed some poise
Bower - looks more like he belongs

Discouraging:

Carrazzo - still cannot kick or run with enough speed (memo: your B&F is in the Teague/McKernen class)
JR - must have some ability but sleeps with the lights on. Also shows signs of being a space cadet - eg. lost a battle for the ball with Gram on our fwd line far too easily only to watch Gram follow thru for the handball in their fwd line and goal mere seconds later.
Fev - continues to spit the dummy & perhaps the dynamics of our fwd line will never improve until we get a player of greater ability than Fev who will command the ball
Stevens - not being match fit is one thing but being physically unfit is another & totally unacceptable
Judd - his kick into goal right at the death smacked of someone still struggling with injury.....this is the most worrying.

Have only watched the game on tv..twice...

Pros:
my HDD recorder worked after the mad rush purchase and setup.
missed going to the TD due to family commitments.
Pfeiffer, Waite, Murphy etc..actually most players showed something (just not much coming together)


Cons:
missed going to the TD due to family commitments (yes I am a masochist...have missed two Melb. based games in the passed 6 years)
JR was drafted as a "lightening quick midfielder" - well is he (never used this way)? Unless we play a fast "play on" style, we'll never know.
Game plan. This possession and look for an option should only be employed some of the time...like towards the end of a quarter when players are stuffed. We need to run on and take more risks! Why the hell were we practicing this in NAB cup...haven't seen it since!

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

CONS:
People who criticise posters who criticise. This a forum FFS. The teams only going to get better if we pinpoint areas to improve and implement measures to @#$%&! improve them.
The truth is there are serious deficiencies in our football team and sweeping them under the carpet and pretending they dont exist wont get us anywhere.
We cant keep painting this rosy coloured bullshit because THAT BREEDS MEDIOCRITY.
Our whole attitude as a supporter base needs to change- we need to DEMAND answers from our players and not allow them to play so effortlessly like they are at the moment. Again, this "she'll be right" attitude, the simultaneous orgasiming when a player like RUssel hits a target from 40 metres but does shit all for the rest of the game, this ooh-aah at Houlihans exquisite skills etc STILL DOESNT HIDE THE FACT that we are the least drilled football team in the AFL.
This doesnt mean we are turning into Richmond supporters (a typical retort from some of you on here), it just shows we give a shit about our football club.
And for that I dont apologise.

I caught some of the game and I have to say the number of times the players turn sideways after marking the ball rather than forward is staggering.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

spot on. you would think the first direction you look is to attack then to the corridor.

It's fine to criticise, and questions do need to be asked. I think anyone who thinks everything is hunky dory is seriously deluded. However, there is a difference between criticising the game/team itself, and furthering one's own agenda (whether it be tanking, sackings of certain personnel etc) and using this as 'proof' of why our club is rotten to the core/never going to be successful again/these people need to be sacked etc.

We lost a game of football, that's it. But too many people are losing sight of this.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

pros - murph, gibblett, waite, thornton, cloke, pfieffer

cons - carrazzo, scotland, FEVOLA, houlihan, stevens had little impact, judd was clearly struggling, shouldnt have dropped action jackson (tagging job on hayes or montagna would have been good)