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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:22 pm
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Location: Sydney
KK Rhino was cruelled by injury and one can only imagine what if.

Im proud of the club for sticking by him and absolutely love the bloke for never throwing in the the towel.

He didnt just become a favourite becuase of being a battler but because of the rare glimpses we all saw.

PS I Love Wiggo and am unashamed to admit it. We need poeple if his ilk and who to say he wasnt burnt by the brilliant Pago.

Time will tell.

Fair comments re Carlos though, although if you thing about them and realise youve accpepted 150 games from him you also should really rethink you honest battler assesment.

Any player who reaches 150 deserves respect especially one from a non football background such as hurling.

PPS Bower is going to show a lot of people up.

Glad we kept him ahead of Kennedy - Not becuase I didnt rate Josh, purely becuase I rate Backmen a F'ing lot more!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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TheBluesMuse wrote:
I like your guts SB to come on here and argue against our great white hope.

We have all been through so much emotion when it comes to big Setanta, we are so fond of him that someone coming in here with some realities of what football he has produced is hard to swallow.

If I was a bit more of a pessimist and let go of my emotion I would probably agree with you but at this stage I too am holding onto the hope that he does become an athletic monster who will dominate.

It will come down to list management in the next 1 ot 2 years when we start recruiting kids and assessing whether Setanta has a spot or not, pending on his improvement.

But i love the big guy and can appreciate what he has done to give himslef every opportunity. So all the best big guy. But right now he is a mediocre footballer, that's the reality. Sentiment will allow for nothing if he remains that way.

EDIT: I'd just likte to add that I am all for giving him a postion to learn rather than throwing all over the place like Pagan did. But if there comes a time when a different player/players can fill that role better than him then there is probably no place for him on the list.


That is very brave of you BluesMuses but I just think SB be has had a inspiration-bypass operation.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:54 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm
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Who gives a @#$%&! about Livo, seriously :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:54 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm
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Bower was great today.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:41 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:21 am
Posts: 1684
Location: Parkville
kingkerna wrote:
nytdog wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
I have never praised livo Mr Dog, all I am saying is that Setanta is still unproven and an unknown quantity - unlike you who thinks he is already a star.

I have always said that I love his enthusiasm, attitude and application, lets hope it turns into something special - he's not there yet,

Now as for your boyfriend Bower - if he had half of Santy's application he would be much better off


I never said Setanta is a star right this minute, but he is certainly capable of it. The point is, you are so quick to knock and criticse these blokes without giving them any recognition for what they have achieved to date and what they can achieve in the future based on their obvious talents... with some good coaching. Thats what makes your opinions boring and ill conceived. Some forsight rather than poor judgement would be appreciated. How about looking at some of the positives and encouraging these guys.


whats funny is that you are having a crack at me for being negative, while at the same time resorting to personal insaults. I'm glad you're not on the selection committee either - you'd have the little league playing cos they all try so hard.

I actually have praised Santy, but for the right reasons, I have not placed unrealistic expectations on him either, I recognise his talent (largely made up of his determination and effort) but I can also pinpoint his shortcomings (which are all a factor of not growing up playing this game)

Do I want him sacked - No
Do I want him to have more time - Yes
Do I think he will progress and have a 150 plus career - Yes, but as an honest contributor.

At this point all that Bower has achieved is getting drafted and playing a handful of games - yes a great achievement in itself, I'll be happy to acknowledge his achievements beyond this should they occur.

Mr Dog, please don't tell me you're one of these "I never bag players" types. Come on, who have you not liked that much in the past?


Not sure where my personal insults were KK. Sorry if you feel they are there. I disagree with your opinion and how quickly you arrive at them. I'm not sure you'll find a more positive person out there than me. The only player I have ever bagged is Ackland... because of his lack of commitment during the game. I have said a few players won't make it, but that is based on a very thoughout analyis, not flippant remarks like you generally make. Bentick is one of them that I have consistently believed will struggle to be a regular, but I never ever bag him. And I don't just like Bower and Setanta because they try hard. I like them because they are very athletic and have huge upsides. That's what disappoints me about your analysis. You don't look deep enough into it. If a guy doesnt come up and have 20+ possies and dominate in his first year or two, you write them off.

My expecations of Sentata are not unrealistic. I know the O'hAilpins and I know there desire to excell not to be mediocre. Where you are wrong is that you believe his talent is purely based on his determination - what a crock. The guy is fast, strong and has skill. All that he needs now is to learn the intricacies of the game. Kouta was pretty slow to come on. If it was up to you, he woulda been given the flick in 1993.

Btw, does it make you angry that Bower was one of our best today... sheesh. In only his 3rd year I can already see significant progress.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:47 am 
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Geoff Southby
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It takes more than athletic prowess to become an AFL footballer....Otherwise we could go recruiting Negro giants.

I have said this before about Setanta's leaps in a marking contest, if you watch him in a real game he doesn't jump to meet the ball he pretty much will meet it flat footed. Now we hear of how quick he is and how much of a leap he has but it isn't particularly used to his advantage in a real game. I mean compare that to Waite who can jump to meet the ball making sure a spoil is not possible.

It's all well and good to test for vertical leaps in your back yard but unless they are used to advantage in a game situation there is no use even listing them as an attribute. He does have fairly good judgement of the ball cos he has outmarked some forwards in a one on one but if he can practice using his leap to 'meet' the ball I think it would be beneficial.

nytdog wrote:
Btw, does it make you angry that Bower was one of our best today... sheesh. In only his 3rd year I can already see significant progress.


I'm pretty sure kk would be happy to swallow his words if Bower turns out, afterall if he does it will benefit our Footy Club and that's the top priority for all of us.

(oh i'm in a good mood today :) )

JUDD!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:22 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:14 pm
Posts: 89
Location: melbourne
The way I see it....With Jamo, Waite and Thornton (although he will struggle in 1-2 years as other young guys develop) The 4th tall down back in the 22 comes down to Bower V Carlos. Love Carlos's intensity but he don't look right? Looks thin, maybe he will improve over the year. Still some decision making and skills yesterday were not great. He has a battle on his hands to cement a spot. He does have the height on his side that no other tall backman has though.

Source at the club has told me that Ratten has challenged Sentanta, told him that he is no project anymore and has to earn his spot. Apparently Sentanta threw the challenge straight back at Ratten and told him he will FIGHT to the death etc......

I think Bower to Join the other 3 until Carlos can prove himself..... Although we are up against Big Richo Rd1 ?????

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I just thought i'd add my 2 cents to this thread by saying that............

I truly believe that Setanta is one of the greatest things to happen to this club for a long time (Judd & Pratt aside).

You will not find another player on our list (bar Fev) that will die for this club more than Setanta!

I....... for one.......... love him to death!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:52 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Location: Ireland
Dennis Denuto wrote:
The way I see it....With Jamo, Waite and Thornton (although he will struggle in 1-2 years as other young guys develop) The 4th tall down back in the 22 comes down to Bower V Carlos. Love Carlos's intensity but he don't look right? Looks thin, maybe he will improve over the year. Still some decision making and skills yesterday were not great. He has a battle on his hands to cement a spot. He does have the height on his side that no other tall backman has though.

Source at the club has told me that Ratten has challenged Sentanta, told him that he is no project anymore and has to earn his spot. Apparently Sentanta threw the challenge straight back at Ratten and told him he will FIGHT to the death etc......

I think Bower to Join the other 3 until Carlos can prove himself..... Although we are up against Big Richo Rd1 ?????


About right, also, Carlos has lost 5kgs, thats all, and that's all I can say at he moment.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:02 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Beano wrote:
...Carlos has lost 5kgs, thats all, and that's all I can say at he moment.

wouldn't mind a pm from you Beano mate :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:42 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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A post on bigfooty reckons that Setanta wanted to take off about 5 kg's, as he wasn't feeling comfortable with the extra weight.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421431
(Season Launch - posted by bluebear)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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ryan2000 wrote:
I just thought i'd add my 2 cents to this thread by saying that............

I truly believe that Setanta is one of the greatest things to happen to this club for a long time (Judd & Pratt aside).

You will not find another player on our list (bar Fev) that will die for this club more than Setanta!

I....... for one.......... love him to death!



QFMFT


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:31 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 11:23 pm
Posts: 800
Location: North Melbourne
Spoke to Couts and Saddo on Tuesday night at the Gene Simmons filming. Both categorically denied any illness, saying it's complete bullshit. Couts didn't sing the praises of SEN, and was suprised anyone believed this rumour.

I'm fast learning that anything posted is best digested with a grain if salt. Yet at the same time the Carlos I saw on Friday has me really worried. I love the bloke, but he looks to have shaved more than 5 kg's off his bodyweight - unless we're unleashing the Adam Goodes???

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 pm
Posts: 2220
When Setanta first arrived, I fely very unsure that he would feature in our future revival.

I said at the time that he would eventually decide that it would be better for him to return home to Ireland and leave Carlton.

Because he is such an exemplary person, the prospect of losing him filled me with sadness.

However we do move forward as a club without him being on the list.

Having said this though, I do hope that I am proven to be wrong because I would very much like to have him in our team.

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Last edited by blueman on Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:21 am
Posts: 1684
Location: Parkville
blueman wrote:
When Setanta first arrived, I fely very unsure that he would feature in our future revival and I said at the time that he would eventually decide that it would be better for him to return home to Ireland and leave Carlton.

Because of the fine person that he is, this filled me with sadness.

I do hope that I am wrong.


You are wrong. He has no intention of returning back to Ireland until he achieves his AFL goals.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:04 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 pm
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Lets see what happens, because sometimes things can change without warning.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:05 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 11:23 pm
Posts: 800
Location: North Melbourne
Blueman's generally on the money, but in this I hope he is very wrong, as it's still early days.

Nevertheless, whatever happens to Setanta in the future he'll still go down as one of my favourite players of recent times. God I loved Jon McCormick before he moved on, and still miss his hardness at the contest!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:28 pm
Posts: 2220
The reason that I say as I do is because all the talk about illnesses and losing large amounts of weight are things that unless categorically denied would be sufficient to create a change of heart in a person that is otherwise of a very strong resolve.

Also if an extensive time is spent recuperating in Ireland, there would be a significant chance that that change of heart might actually come about..

This is the centre of my concern.

I would suggest that Setanta continues on with Carlton, because whatever trials he might face, the reward at the end of the story that the new Carlton is now carving out - will be well worth it. As a part of this, Setantas place in Carlton's rich history will be assured

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:58 am 
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Robert Walls
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geez, one dodgy kebab, and his running back to mamma?

Bollocks

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