I was just wondering when DP leaves....................

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Sat May 26, 2007 7:31 pm

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

jim · **Joined:** Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm **Posts:** 8217

Andain wrote:

He's lost the players because they're losing? :roll:

Consistant blowouts over a short period are a fair sign that a coach has lost his players. Tough fought out loses were the team comes back after a bad quarter revved up and having a real dig, and regularly saying in articles that they love the coach and that he's really helped them develop their game are NOT a sign of a coach who's lost his players.

There are plenty of reasons for the club to sack Pagan at the end of the year, but losing the faith of the players isn't one of them so stop making up crap just because you want it to be true.

Still lving on the moon and home for a visit. I thought any knowledgable footy fan knew that by now. It's one of the reasons wearen't doing any good, a lack of respect for the coach. I think alot of ex-players have told a pretty good story. I know of one close to first hand.

Andain · **Posted:** Sat May 26, 2007 8:05 pm

jim wrote:

Andain wrote:

He's lost the players because they're losing? :roll:

Consistant blowouts over a short period are a fair sign that a coach has lost his players. Tough fought out loses were the team comes back after a bad quarter revved up and having a real dig, and regularly saying in articles that they love the coach and that he's really helped them develop their game are NOT a sign of a coach who's lost his players.

There are plenty of reasons for the club to sack Pagan at the end of the year, but losing the faith of the players isn't one of them so stop making up crap just because you want it to be true.

Still lving on the moon and home for a visit. I thought any knowledgable footy fan knew that by now. It's one of the reasons wearen't doing any good, a lack of respect for the coach. I think alot of ex-players have told a pretty good story. I know of one close to first hand.

Yep because ex-players who've been shown the door and given the finger, after they basically ran the joint under previous coaches, are going to give you a fairly accurate assessment of how the current Carlton squad currently feels about Dennis. :lol:

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun May 27, 2007 11:29 am

TruBlueBrad wrote:

chubbyruss wrote:

Andain wrote:

behindblueeyes wrote:

I think the great man went about it the wrong way by publicly coming out and saying that DP was safe as long as we didnt have a season like the last two.

He should have told the players that if we make finals Pagan would be gone.

We would have won # 17 :-D

Have you got any evidence whatsoever that he's lost the players?

Read DOA's post

Read Cazzesmans

Look at DPs record......

jim · **Joined:** Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm **Posts:** 8217

Andain wrote:

jim wrote:

Andain wrote:

He's lost the players because they're losing? :roll:

Consistant blowouts over a short period are a fair sign that a coach has lost his players. Tough fought out loses were the team comes back after a bad quarter revved up and having a real dig, and regularly saying in articles that they love the coach and that he's really helped them develop their game are NOT a sign of a coach who's lost his players.

There are plenty of reasons for the club to sack Pagan at the end of the year, but losing the faith of the players isn't one of them so stop making up crap just because you want it to be true.

Still lving on the moon and home for a visit. I thought any knowledgable footy fan knew that by now. It's one of the reasons wearen't doing any good, a lack of respect for the coach. I think alot of ex-players have told a pretty good story. I know of one close to first hand.

Yep because ex-players who've been shown the door and given the finger, after they basically ran the joint under previous coaches, are going to give you a fairly accurate assessment of how the current Carlton squad currently feels about Dennis. :lol:

Convenient excuse for someone who won't admit he's wrong. It's not as if they can come out and say with while they're still at the club. So it's only ex-Carlton players that have sour grapes. Every one of them. There's been alot of them. There's a Cory McGrath thread on here from last year detailing his interview on 5AA that might interest you (forgot, probably sour grapes). Sure if you search you can find it. Not to mention the odd journo report in papers and on radio and the many creditable posters from various forums relaying inforrmation from creditable sources . Let's not the forget the ex-players who were willing to dip into they're own pockets last year to pay him out. I can tell of one close to first hand way back 18 months ago. Enough there for you?!

tommi · **Posted:** Sun May 27, 2007 3:00 pm

Hey...........

why would we want DP to go...........?

i mean wow............he's been our President for 5
minutes...........!

kindest regards tommi

Andain · **Posted:** Tue May 29, 2007 10:33 pm

jim wrote:

Andain wrote:

jim wrote:

Andain wrote:

He's lost the players because they're losing? :roll:

Consistant blowouts over a short period are a fair sign that a coach has lost his players. Tough fought out loses were the team comes back after a bad quarter revved up and having a real dig, and regularly saying in articles that they love the coach and that he's really helped them develop their game are NOT a sign of a coach who's lost his players.

There are plenty of reasons for the club to sack Pagan at the end of the year, but losing the faith of the players isn't one of them so stop making up crap just because you want it to be true.

Still lving on the moon and home for a visit. I thought any knowledgable footy fan knew that by now. It's one of the reasons wearen't doing any good, a lack of respect for the coach. I think alot of ex-players have told a pretty good story. I know of one close to first hand.

Yep because ex-players who've been shown the door and given the finger, after they basically ran the joint under previous coaches, are going to give you a fairly accurate assessment of how the current Carlton squad currently feels about Dennis. :lol:

Convenient excuse for someone who won't admit he's wrong. It's not as if they can come out and say with while they're still at the club. So it's only ex-Carlton players that have sour grapes. Every one of them. There's been alot of them. There's a Cory McGrath thread on here from last year detailing his interview on 5AA that might interest you (forgot, probably sour grapes). Sure if you search you can find it. Not to mention the odd journo report in papers and on radio and the many creditable posters from various forums relaying inforrmation from creditable sources . Let's not the forget the ex-players who were willing to dip into they're own pockets last year to pay him out. I can tell of one close to first hand way back 18 months ago. Enough there for you?!

I'm more than willing to admit that I'm wrong when I'm actually wrong.

Cory McGrath? A guy who got sacked mid career when he thought he was safe. Nah they're definately wouldn't be any sour grapes there. That's you're evidence :lol:

kennyhunter · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:35 pm **Posts:** 2434

It's about time some people in the high-profile medai started to take a closer look at Den Den's record with us. And I think slowly they are.

That's what it comes back to.

And that is what will cost him his job.

More time for the midweek country races, then. :roll:

gerry atric · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 am **Posts:** 2125

Not sure what everyone is so hot under the collar about. I reckon we will win another 2-4 games which will almost guarantee 14th position, and if we win another 2, picks 1 and 4. That's not tanking it is just where we are. I have no doubt we are better this year than last and were better last year than in 05. But we are still v. ordinary and our improvement slow.

Main probs with DP, older generation, won't embrace new techniques and philosophies, tactically weak, unimaginative, may or may not have lost some of the players to some extent. May not be developing youngsters well enough (altho the unpalateable alternative is that some of our high draft picks may not be elite talents - time will tell).

DOA and Caz would be the best sources on here (not someone's neighbours friends taxi driver who is thrid cousin of a carlton reserves player from 1978 or similar). DOA and Caz seem to have different views and in other posts DOA has been very positive re AWs commitment to Carlton and that he is happy. Re defensive use of players, good education, but need to then let them blossom.

Anyway I'd be astonsihed if DP is there next year, and I have no inside info. His record (while there are mitigating circumstances) is diabolical and another 14-16 finish should sink him. We can't keep talking about the future, some time the future needs to be now and we need to see significant improvement. We have a prez that can pay him out. I reckon a resignation with dignity (and golden handshake) with two rounds to go and us on 2 wins. Prospective coaches will be knocking down our door, because if our recruiters have done a good to excellent job, we should have a side ready for the big one in 2010.

And then in a few years DPs reputation will be rehabilitated as he will be given credit for building a team that another coach takes to success.

Wild Blue Yonder · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 3:31 pm

Dignity would see Denis moved on as a result of his coaching record. That's what a club run by Richard Pratt would do in my estimation.

Loyal Carltonian · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 4:01 pm

The influence a coach can have on players should not be underestimated.
Fevola is one example that has thrived under Denis Pagan whereas under Wayne Brittain he was used by goods.
Luke Livingston is another that was destroyed by Denis Pagan.
The bottom line is that who coaches you can shape your future.

DownUnderChick · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 4:31 pm

Loyal Carltonian wrote:

The influence a coach can have on players should not be underestimated.
Fevola is one example that has thrived under Denis Pagan whereas under Wayne Brittain he was used by goods.
Luke Livingston is another that was destroyed by Denis Pagan.
The bottom line is that who coaches you can shape your future.

Livo wasn't destroyed by DP. He wasn't the pick that he was touted at being and that has nothing to do with DP.

Blame anyone but DP for Livo.

Steve_C7 · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm **Posts:** 1002

Loyal Carltonian wrote:

The influence a coach can have on players should not be underestimated.
Fevola is one example that has thrived under Denis Pagan whereas under Wayne Brittain he was used by goods.
Luke Livingston is another that was destroyed by Denis Pagan.
The bottom line is that who coaches you can shape your future.

Livo was a player picked on perception rather than talent. We needed a KP player to replace SOS, so we got Livo rather than who was the best talent at the time.

bluebeard · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 5:20 pm

Steve_C7 wrote:

Loyal Carltonian wrote:

The influence a coach can have on players should not be underestimated.
Fevola is one example that has thrived under Denis Pagan whereas under Wayne Brittain he was used by goods.
Luke Livingston is another that was destroyed by Denis Pagan.
The bottom line is that who coaches you can shape your future.

Livo was a player picked on perception rather than talent. We needed a KP player to replace SOS, so we got Livo rather than who was the best talent at the time.

Great recruiting that!

99prelim · **Joined:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm **Posts:** 3561

(gerry atric wrote) Main probs with DP, older generation, won't embrace new techniques and philosophies, tactically weak, unimaginative, may or may not have lost some of the players to some extent. May not be developing youngsters well enough (altho the unpalateable alternative is that some of our high draft picks may not be elite talents - time will tell).

FFS - What are we doing to our once proud club with this guy at the helm????
Give Ratts the 2nd half of the season to show his wares. If we have the slightest doubt about his coaching ability at the end of the H and A season, conduct the most exhaustive search for a coach to lead CARLTON out of this embarrassing misery. There is no f#$%%^ing time to waste. Ostriches need not reply to this post.

TheGame · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 8:36 pm

99prelim wrote:

(gerry atric wrote) Main probs with DP, older generation, won't embrace new techniques and philosophies, tactically weak, unimaginative, may or may not have lost some of the players to some extent. May not be developing youngsters well enough (altho the unpalateable alternative is that some of our high draft picks may not be elite talents - time will tell).

FFS - What are we doing to our once proud club with this guy at the helm????
Give Ratts the 2nd half of the season to show his wares. If we have the slightest doubt about his coaching ability at the end of the H and A season, conduct the most exhaustive search for a coach to lead CARLTON out of this embarrassing misery. There is no f#$%%^ing time to waste. Ostriches need not reply to this post.

Damn straight! We've given this joker half a decade with our club, time to piss him off.

bluebeard · **Posted:** Wed May 30, 2007 8:39 pm

99prelim wrote:

(gerry atric wrote) Main probs with DP, older generation, won't embrace new techniques and philosophies, tactically weak, unimaginative, may or may not have lost some of the players to some extent. May not be developing youngsters well enough (altho the unpalateable alternative is that some of our high draft picks may not be elite talents - time will tell).

FFS - What are we doing to our once proud club with this guy at the helm????
Give Ratts the 2nd half of the season to show his wares. If we have the slightest doubt about his coaching ability at the end of the H and A season, conduct the most exhaustive search for a coach to lead CARLTON out of this embarrassing misery. There is no f#$%%^ing time to waste. Ostriches need not reply to this post.

If only...if we get killed this weekend...you never know

I was just wondering when DP leaves....................

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