FYI

Ronald Kray (24 October 1933 – 17 March 1995) and Reginald Kray (24 October 1933 – 1 October 2000) were identical twin brothers, and the foremost organised crime leaders in London's Eastend during the 1950s and 60s. Ronald — commonly referred to as Ron or Ronnie — suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and had the more dominant personality of the two. His brother is usually referred to as Reg or Reggie.
Their rivals in South London were the The Richardsons accompanied by Frankie Fraser.

they would make a terrible gay brother band.

But I am sure that the crowd would have to love them..or else!

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They coud'nt.....could they?

Saw him play for the Bullants last week...he's SO much like Carlos was last year/years before...he'll take a super mark, then play on, look like a dill and get pinged holding the ball...but hey at 200cm, and being able to run like the wind i like the kid...I did see him take a mark 60m out from goal and hit Morrell on the chest on a lead though..so he'll get there eventually.


Nic

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Cuck Follingwood

You should apply for a job in our recruiting department. Not sure they care about guys that can kick either.

Think of him as a 201 cm midfielder. He is excellent below his knees and has brilliant speed and agility. He is well capable of gathering the ball in close.

His handballing is surprisingly good. He moves around and dishes it off by hand with the ease of a basketballer. His long kicking is better than his short kicking, but Pagan would be wanting him to kick long anyway.

He isn't as good at marking as his brother was at the same stage, but isn't weak in that area. In the VFL, he's spent a fair bit of time in both forward and defensive roles.

He was rucking in the seniors at the end of last year and returned against Werribee and did some good work. He has a very good leap for centre bounces, and he's now pretty good at holding his ground in boundary throw-ins. He weighs about 100kg, so he's more developed body-wise than Hampson and Jacobs.

If he's selected, you'll see some really brilliant stuff which will amaze you when the ball is on the ground, but he'll make some bad decisions which will make you groan. Decision-making is the thing that will improve most with increasing experience. But he'll be a real surprise for the Pies to deal with.

Aisake wont be delisted at the end of the year....

He has a HUGE upside, just give him time!

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Absolutely agree - he needs more time to develop but i think he will be worth it when he is ready.

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The glass is neither half full nor half empty. Rather the glass is twice as big than required.

poor clokey - he was just impressing himself on the club and the fans

shoulders are a tough one - such a varying time to heal etc depending on the person

i had major dislocations and issues had chipped bone floating around and everything - one took a year - then i got back to playing and had a few minor dislocations that only took a few weeks to heal - i even had one pop out in a game and trained that week fine

i must confess though i never got back to full strength and my shoulders were never the same and still aren't

so it all depends - fingers crossed.

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Didn't say the club was going to delist him, I said a decision has to be made to join the senior list or delist. Wouldn't it be nice to see him get those few games "under the belt" before then.

I've never heard any suggestion of the club delisting Aisake. In fact, over the last week or so Pagan told KB that he expected that Aisake would be a regular AFL player next season. He emphasised that he was probably faster than his brother.

Here's an update - essentially it says there's no bone damage, but the MRI will determine the extent of the injury: http://www.carltonfc.com.au/Default.aspx?tabid=4311&newsId=42869

Pagan often talks with forked tongue - You should know that by now Mav

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

What I know is that Setanta in the doco "Tall, Dark and O'hAilpin" described how Pagan approached Setanta and asked about whether his brother would be prepared to come to Carlton as an International Rookie. And the rest, as they say, is history. IIRC, the Pies were interested, and they were a bit put out when he signed up for us.

Pagan would no doubt love the 2 Irishmen for their courage and dedication, and because they were both his punts. Credit where credit's due - their success is Pagan's success.

I so wanted Cloke to play this week. Get well soon.

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Karma

Loyal & Proud

I hate to say it, but if a bookie were laying odds on whether Cam Cloke will be retained by us at the end of the season, I'd back against it.

Daniel Harford said he talked to a Pies guy around the end of last year and the thinking was that Cam had endured 3 shoulder dislocations, and they weren't sure he'd be able to contribute much in the following 2 years. They thought he might be a contributor long-term, but they couldn't carry him for a couple of years to see if it stabilised.

Apparently, shoulder dislocations are particularly difficult injuries. The shoulder is the most flexible joint of the lot, and there is a high risk of a reoccurence after an initial problem.

Now that Cam Cloke has had 4 similar injuries, the odds of a further reoccurence must be pretty high.

I'd imagine the club would be desperate for him to return to the VFL at least this year. That way, if he is delisted at the end of the year the club won't have to pay him 80% or whatever it is next year and include it under the salary cap.

The problem for us is that Cloke was very much an interim proposition. Along with Ackland and McLaren, he was there to see us through a year or two while the young, tall ruckmen develop. Ackland had the security of a 3 year contract on good money, if the reports from the time are to be believed. He was always in the box seat to continue in 2008. Until Cloke's injury, he looked to have gone past McLaren. But now McLaren might come back into calculations as the 2nd mature ruckman in 2008. Surely, we're going to delist one of the 3 at the end of the year. And would Cloke be worthwhile as a backup workhorse if he is fragile?

If by the end of this season one or more of Aisake, Hampson and Jacobs show that they are ready to go next year, we may not even need another small ruckman in addition to Ackland.

he's the sort of player that in coming years we'd love to have as a back-up, obviously we'd love a ruckman who can dominate 4quarters of footy like a Cox, Jolly, Lade, or Sandilands..i wouldnt be delisting him unless the injury is such that his shoulder is weak as a result and he cant physically handle the game anymore.


Nic

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Cuck Follingwood

It's a shame about Cam Cloke, his ruck work was the best i've seen at the club in quite a while.........

French is the only other reasonable ruckman that comes to mind.

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

the_cranium wrote:




god damn it

Terrible news for the Clokester.Could someone tell me if Aisake is still a rookie come years end ,can he be drafted by another club?If so, our hands been forced and we should promote him.Whats wrong with a young raw ruckman?These Irishman are so determined to succeed,let him loose to squash some pies.

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I see you watching me watching you.

Carlton has to choose between elevating him or delisting him.

If the club chooses to elevate him, that is documented in the 1st list lodgement, well before the National Draft. As soon as this is done, he is on our senior list.

If the club chooses to delist him, he'll then be entitled to nominate for the National Draft. He could decide against doing that and nominate for the PSD instead, and that would allow him to nominate his terms.

If he goes into either draft, we could then have 2nd thoughts and pick him up if he's still available when our pick comes around.

yep shoulders are very difficult injuries - when i first did mine badly - i saw 4 specialists and 2 said dont get surgery and 1 said definitely get surgery and the other was non committal

shoulder surgery is very tricky and nothing is gauranteed - as i said before it all comes down to the individual.

i decided against the surgery ( went with the majority prognosis ) and followed a strict rehab program that lasted a year i couldnt play for a whole year

i got into pre season training and a couple of months in my shoulder popped again but nowhere near as bad and it was only a couple of weeks and again as i said before the next time it happened i didnt even miss a whole week.

it all depends on the individual - but one thing that i guranteed is that clokes shoulders will never be the same - he will always have some form of weakness and potential injury there.

i still get aches in my shoulder and back from it and it was a few years ago now.


i wish him all the best as some people do recover perfectly but his history is not promising - minor injuries will continue to occur and hopefully this one is minor

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.