Was reading the Herald Sun and i was SHOCKED to see Kouta (whom i thought was one of our better players for the day) had the 4th lowest ranking points.

What shocked me even more was seeing players like McGrath/French higher than him???

What shocked me even more is that Kouta is listed as having 7 Clangers, whilst McGrath is listed as having none! Nuthing! Zip!

WTF?????

Just watched a replay of the game and i have no idea how the Herald Sun comes up with these flower scores. I really don't.

Clanger, in the Sun, is listed as:-


So does that mean the pathetic grubber of a kick from Mcgrath that couldn't even hit a running Kennedy who was just 30mtrs out from goal, WASN'T an error?

Or the crap handball to nobody late in the last quater that resulted in an Essendon* goal to Hille................THAT WASN'T AN ERROR?

French did @#$%&! all thourghout the whole day, was destroyed in the ruck, and he gets a better score than Chris Bryan????

French - 8 Pos, 2 marks, 11 hit-outs, 1 (so-called) clanger and 0 goals 0 behinds = 76 Ranking points?????????????????

Bryan - 12 Pos, 7 Marks, 14 Hiy-outs, 1 (so-called) clanger and 1 goal 1 behind = 64 Ranking points??????????????????

That's a laugh!

Stevens & Houlihans game was riddled with Errors yet they still make it in the best?
(Note:- i'll back away from Houla cause whilst he made a few errors that reulted in turn-overs etc, etc, he DID keep Campo to a low 17 disposals which is an achievement. And he did set up a goal for Fev and kicked one of his own!)

Walker was listed as having a 'Dirty Game' by both commentators on Fox Footy. But after watching it again, i'm thinking he had a pretty decent game.

Walker was responsible for 3 CRUCIAL Spoils in the last qtr alone, including one in the dying 20sec of the game that could have resulted in Essendon* gaining just that extra point needed to win the game!

Does everybody believe that Walker's game was that BAD? Or Kouta's?

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

a clanger is when your disposal is directly turned over tot he oppositon and doesnt take into account if you do a really crap kick that doesnt directly get turned over but may have gotten turned over as a result of your poor kick, a stat that perhaps doesnt truly reflect how good your disposal was.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

Walker was also up against Stanton in the midfield before he was benched at 3/4 time. Stanton in my eyes was clearly BOG.

Pay more attention to the total champion data scores and the possession counts than much else if you want a performance indicator.

If someone has a huge possession count but falls behind a defender or another midfielder, that'll point to that they're either hugely ineffective with their disposal or don't earn much of their own ball off the deck.

I don't think the Herald Sun supplies the champion scores in the paper anymore though.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

they do but just on sundays.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

Watching the game is the best way to judge a player's performance.

Often when giving scores in the herald sun, journos neglect to do that.

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Congratulations CK95

I like Walker but I'm losing confidence in him.

At the moment the 3 picked after him (Sylvia, Ray, McLean) all look like better players.

His man was one of Essendon*'s best. His kicking under pressure is average.

50th this week and his best game was still his 1st. He hasn;t gotten close to that again. He's been quite disappointing, but Pagan's use of him defensively (eg Ablett, Johnson) doesn't help.

I had big hopes when Walks lined up in the square against ess but he didn't have the attacking impact I would've liked.

I pray he isn;t Shane O'sullivan's 'goodbye' present.

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

Just saw in talkingplayers that DOA said he's had a few injuries so I;ll withdraw some of my criticism of Walks.

I really want him to be great, I'm just concerned about his development at the moment, that's all

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

You could argue that those three players also have a team full of players in top form, wins & premiership points behind them to back their form up.

Sylvia is still just a bit-part player bobbing up when he wants to and Ray's best game of his career was played just last week (ironically, against us)

McLean is certainly a talent and a key reason to why Melbourne are going so strong so i'll give you that one.

But you bring up a great point...............Time to start finding a position for Walker that is gonna get the best out of him rather than just shove him down back or use him as a tagger. It's gonna kill him.

Would anybody object to playing him on the wing for the rest of the year? He seems happy there!

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

So am i mate! I know what your saying.

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Cant say I have been over impressed with Sylvia or Ray...good players but nothing special in my books....Mclean is a useful extractor and consistent but I dont think he has the polish of an A grader and I dont see much upside in him.

While I'm no fan of the previous recruiting officer I think he got it right with AW.....more upside than the others and more of an athlete which is what the modern game is all about. I think he is an athlete learning how to become a footballer rather than say Mclean who is a pure footballer.
Like Kouta i dont think AW will ever be a stylist in regards kicking but he will get better like Kouta did and make better decisions.
I think the coaching staff should be shot the way they have dumped responsibility on such a young player and turned him into a trouble shooting defender instead of allowing him to run free where he does his best work.Hard for the fellow to get 26 possies each game like he did in game 1..take speccies which he doesnt do anymore or provide us with midfield run...he is an exciting player when he runs but cant do when playing on the fullback line vs some oversized KPP..

Stanton is a good colt who out ran him..he didnt out play him one on one just ran AW until he was fatigued...
I think his father suggested he is carrying injuries.....which must affect his ability to run out a game....the boy has talent but needs a smarter coaching dept to get the most out of him and look after him physically...

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

This is how they work it out:

Effective kick 4 Points
Ineffective kick 0 Points
Clanger kick -8 Points
Handball effective 2 Points
Ineffective handball 0 Points
Handball clanger -6 Points
Handball receive 1 Point
Hardball get 4 Points
Loose-ball get 4 Points
Goal 8 Points
Behind 1 Point
Mark uncontested (maintaining possession) 1 Point
Mark contested (maintaining possession) 6 Points
Mark uncontested (from opposition) 4 Points
Mark contested (from opposition) 8 Points
Tackles 4 Points
Free kick for 4 Points
Free kick against -6 Points
Hitout to Advantage 3 Points

Kouta had 7 clangers. That's -56 points.

Houla had 3 clangers out of 24 possessions- hardly riddled with errors (but we know you can't stand him).

Walker had 6 1%ers but they don't get included.

Joel Bowden leads the comp. All he does is get lots of cheap stats from chipping it around in the backline. Livo leads our effective kicks. Make of them what you want.

So you should, he was beaten on Saturday but I like what I see. He plays in the worst team in the AFL and has huge responsibilities every week. There are no free rides in our team.

Ok I take it back, champion data doesn't cover enough.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

So the grubber kick that missed it's mark and was picked up by campo that was sent inside 50 to a leading Lucas that resulted in a goal doesn't count as a clanger.

Or the lack-luster Handball that put Scotland under quite a bit of preasure just outside of the goalsquare that could have resulted in another goal wasn't counted as an clanger.

Or the time where he just stood and watched Thornton get run down which resulted in a goal when he should have used his voice and called it out to him, that doesn't count as a clanger either.

Look, the whole team had their fair share of Clangers / Errors, call em what you will. Despite what you may think, i'm not trying to point fingers here bud, all i did was ask a question as to why players like French can get a higher ranking than players like Kouta & Bryan who had FAR more impact on the game.

My new theory is, Don't pay any attention to the Herald Sun ranking points cause they're obviously shite!

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Don't forget Walker just turned 20, he is still a very young pup. Walker gets the toughest job week in week out, either playing as a defender or tagger.. On the weekend, when it counted Walker stood up at least 3 times - kicked the goal on the 3rd qrt from about 40 out when we were 3 down - jumped in front of Chris Heffernan at the last bounce to stop the ball getting out of the centre - and that spoil on Monfries at full pace and not to infringe to give away a free - Priceless.
IMO, Walker is being fast-tracked the hard way, learning to play on the best, being thrown in the deep end and will emerge as a super player.

Sylvia, Ray, McLean will be just 1 trick pony's while Walker will have it all.

And by the way, Good luck for the 50th Tex and when your about 31-32, you will be notching up your 300th wearing the famous number 1.

He didn't stand and watch. You can see him waving at him to hurry up just before it happened. There were 4 or 5 players around him but you only hold one responsible.

Errors are recorded here:
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/gam ... id=2006123

He made 4 errors out of 24 disposals according to independent experts. That's hardly an error riddled game. Is at least prepared to take a few risks but sometimes they don't come off. The more you get of the ball the more likely you are to make errors. He got more of it than Campo & had more effect on the game. Sure every one made errors. Where's your analysis of Kouta's error riddled game? Or anyone else. We know you can't stand him. Your constant bagging's getting a bit tiresome. Enough's enough.

As I said make of those rankings whatever you want.

BW... the errors listed on Pro-Stats are handling errors, which consist of dropped marks, fumbles and times where the player in question is dispossessed.

I use to confuse them as well.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

What makes you think that? AFAIK the errorrs they list are disposal errors and they mention that down the bottom of the page as a percentage of disposals.

Actually now that I think about it I might be wrong, but they list in this pdf which I sometimes check 'handling errors' but not errors.

So I'm only assuming, but it would make sense if they were linked.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.