Cant judge a 19 year olds career and a player who has been here 2 1/2 years on this game.

Both were ordinary but both had a few mates.

SHHHHHHHHHHH.. youre a joke sometimes.

Your problem is you compare this side to the sides we had running around in the 80s.


This is purely about devlopment now.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Ahh... the cool light of the following morning

Seeing as this thread is about Carlos & Jr, I thought both looked a fair way off the pace.

With Fev & Waite most likey coming back in Carlos should be given more time in the ants & given specific tasks which will develop his understanding of the game (which he's probably been doing already). Unfortunately Carlos is playing a role that needs requires him to kick goals and/or create goalkicking opportunities and he just doesn't look like delivering yet.

While Russell did look out of his depth most of the time last night I'd persist with him and give him a run with role with the one of the oppositions attacking wingman / outside midfielders.

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There's so much I could say...

Better not listen to Tony Shaw (who I normally rate highly) and Rob Walls, as both claim McLaren is better than French.

O'hAilpin needs more game time at the bullants, in a role he is expected to play at the blues. He needs to watch as many games as possible and learn how to read the game and position himself.

Keep Russell for a little bit yet.

I'm with Jars on Deluca... Completely ineffectual. No point having a big bodied player if he can't hurt the opposition. If Kennedy is right to go I'd replace them immediately and let him develop.

Deluca will be lucky to survive at the end of the year.

What did people expect from O'Hailpin? He's been here 2.5 years, and as Denis said the other day, it took Jimmy Stynes 5 years to make it. On top of that, he had been carrying an injury, and he wasn't really fit.
But what do we do other than pick him? We had Fev and Waite out, De Luca who is not a noted goal kicker, Fish who is more of a flanker, and the only other possible option was Kennedy who is recovering from shoulder / groin injuries and is 19 years old. I don't see there was much option but to pick Setanta, but I think the coaching staff would have been quite aware the cards were against him.
Some people around here expect miracles.
On last night's form I'm not writing off either Setanta or Russell. They are just like the majority of draftees (not freaks like Judd and Murphy) that will require another 2 seasons before they are ready to be effective AFL players.
I'm just preparing myself to replace this mantra to the impatient masses when Hartlett, Blackwell, Kennedy, Raso, Bower, and Edwards debut. Give the kids a chance.

Was at the game:

Deluca - Only marks uncontested, and then craps himself because does not know what to do with the ball.

O'Hailpin - I would love him to make it, but he looked like a headless chook out there. It will take more time, if with have that much. Cannot fault his intensity, its just that he has now idea how to position his body, and is not footy smar.

Fisher - Excellent but needs to learn how to kick straight.

Carazzo - Ditto, also needs to learn how to kick for goal. Field passing in play is brilliant though.

Walker - Excellent game, and good dash. Matched Croad very well which surprised me given height difference. Except should not go for speccies in the back line. I swear though, one day he will grap one, and it the best mark since the conception of footy. How high did he leap ? He was one of the highlights of the night for me.

Simpson - Very quite tonight ? Is everything ok with him. He was huffing and puffing a lot earlier on in the game.

Eddie - Fantastic pressure, but was buggered at the end of the night.

I am not going to go through the whole list, but we cannot keep on playing this style of game. The players keep running up and down to fulfill this stupid flood style of game. I feel sorry for the players, did anyone see betts at the end. All on his own taking on about 3 Hawks players, one of the Bateman - Not an easy man to keep up with. He beat them all, but then could not move anymore. Where is the help for these guys?

Also someone needs to tell the forward line not to all go up and jump for the mark at the same time. Someone needs to stay down and crump.

Whitnall, and Carazzo only leading forwards last night. Bloody hell surely someone else could of chipped in and tried to lead or present at least for a short kick into the forward 50.

Very disappointed in last nights game. We had so many shots on goal, and wasted them. Also whats the go with the umpies. Geez they hate us badly. Even the siren went every quarter when we were in our forward line for a chance at a goal. Crap conspiracy.

Waite and Fev in for Teague and .. probably it'll have to be o'hailpin... Russell to stay in.

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Love Cricket? Love me

sorry mate, i know you love him, but the glove has gotta go.

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice

and if Kennedy bags 4 and plays really well this weekend?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

bring him in for kouta

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice

Look don't get me wrong, id be the first person to rotate DeLuca out, but I doubt they'll drop him.. he got quite a few possies and marks, uncontested though many were..... with Fev, Waite, Fisher and DeLuca, we're too top-heavy for O'hAilpin or Kennedy.

I'd love DeLuca to get the can though

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Love Cricket? Love me

Look, I think O'hAilpin should go back to the Magoos, although some of his 1%ers were excellent, he looked very lost out there.

Russell on the other hand did what he could tonight. He rarely let his immediate opponent get the ball. Our culprits in the accountability stakes were the senior players who ended up kick chasing. The feature of his game that VFL watchers seem to criticise is his lack of physicality and intensity at the contest. Well, tonight, there was none of that - he took the hits and he gave them out too. That was the best thing about his performance. Also, add to the fact that although he didn't get much of the ball, he didn't waste it when he got it either (which is better than most of the team). For his education he needs to be given tasks that Walker was last year - he needs to tag the opposition wingman or HFF - against Richmond he could tag Bowden, against Essendon* he could have a run on Camporeale , let him learn where to run to get the ball. If he can learn that, then he will be ok, because he has the skills, he has the pace and he showed the required courage and physicality tonight.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

no you wouldnt.
i saw the look of love in your eyes when the glove trotted across the dome surface taking up his position.

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice

I agree. Russell has the attributes to be a good player, he just needs time. A tagging role would be ideal for him.

O'Hailpin back to the ressies until he improves his general awareness and disposal.

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There is no footy god

Was at the game last night and have had time to reflect and read the posts about this topic in particular and i think there is no point in dropping O'Hailpin and Russell.

Must keep playing O'Hailpin as we need to find out if he can play senior footy.Was thrown to the wolves last night with only are 3rd string forward coming off a hammy and a 6 foot 8 poof to support.I cannot believe Pagan didnt entrust one of our young players to have a crack on Croad and release Whitnall from the start.Not just saying that because of the last 3 quarters.We needed Whitnall in attack tonight from the start with our 2 best forwards out.Shit coaching Denis.


O'Hailpin needs to play in a number of possies and see how he goes for a month.We wont be winning the flag for a while so give the guy a go on the wing ,backhalf tagging the ruckman etc.Nothing to gain dropping him back to the ants at the moment.

Carlos has more ticker than Deluca who proved well and truly in the first half that stats are nearly redundant.7 kicks 7 handballs 9 marks and very little influence on the contest.

Deluca's future is as a ruckman because for a guy who is 202 cm he can run.Can someone tell him to follow through with his kicks .He may get it passed 35 m if he does this.Deluca has to put body on body in the future otherwise his time is limited at the blues.


I thougt Russell showed something tonight so keep playing him.


Teague has been shit and you can just about put the pencil through him.McGrath was ordinary tonight and after the first game has been pretty crap.


If Kennedy plays well today and Waite is fit drop Teague ,McGrath and McLaren for Kennedy ,Fevola and Waite.Have Deluca as the second ruckman Play Carlos on a wing give him space.He deserves time to see if he can play.Some of you posters have written him off too early.Play Whitnall in attack as well.Richmond's forward line consists of Richo,Brown,Pettifer,P Bowden,Hyde and Krakouer.I think we can afford Whitnall up forward this week and Carlos could drop back in the hole.


Looking forward to Friday night.I am confident we will win this one.

Setanta was crucified last and should never had lined up. Some might disagree with my thoughts but im pretty disapointed with the decision to play a guy who that has played only 2 AFL games and expect him to hold up our forward line. He could gain from this experiance or it could take a turn for the worse.

Denis know owes it to Setanta to play him for the next week or so and have playing around Fev, Waitey, Fish and Kouta.

Why are we trying to groom Setanta as a forward... Why can't he be tried as a backman. Maybe having a go on Croad last night for 10 minutes... I recall reading somewhere about Pagan saying we have too many forwards and no backman but that's another issue I won't get into as poor Livo can't get a game.

Lets give Setanta a break, his first game was in a side that couldn't manage a goal until half time and with no Fev around. Second game he was pushed as the major forward and with the way we flood back, he had nothing but dork players in front of him. He never gave up and chased and some goals resulted from his turnovers he created. He might have looked like a fish out of water, but he hasn't played with these guys that much.

JR - liked what I saw, just needs some game time, just needs to keep his feet as times he went to ground allow dorkman to run off.

Setanta - whether he was ready or not showed absolutely no football prowess out there. Totally lost. We all (i included) would love the fairytale to work. But will it? Stynes may well have taken 5 years, however different times back in the 80/90's. No player these days can be afforded 5 years without showing some improvement. If he does not show improvement this year we may have to cut our ties.

De Luca - a firm Pagan favourite but surely the friendship will sour. Made no impact whatsoever. Still Scared.

JR - would like to see him retained in the side but will not happen. Bannister will take his place.

Rod, what about Kade, he showed no football prowess in his first 3 games, if I recall right, had 3 donuts next to his name during those games...

Bosman, Kade has AFL background. Shit he may of even made the All Australian at U18 level, Setanta no AFL background a big punt. I repeat once again - would love to see the Irishman make it but it looks further away than ever. Hope he proves me wrong.

I wouldnt drop them either but Fev and Waite have to come back in and that would seem logical for them to make way for two established players.

Jordan Russell could become the new Livo if not managed carefully and be a yo yo selection under pressure everytime he plays due to his high draft selection...he isnt a ready made ..more of a project player in the Kade Simpson mould.
Croad cleaned him up with a elbow but it may be good for JR to get that type of taste and know whats expected.
He looks lost and doesnt get to enough contests and even though he has built his body up still plays footy like a schoolboy...nothing wrong with that as Kade Simpson has proven, it just means we need to be patient and keep giving him game time so he gets confidence and self belief...
I think he has the skills to be very good in this new game style that is being played and is worth the wait....

Setanta needs more footy and is still a novice and just needs to get some more footy know how under his belt......Jim Stynes, Sean Wight all took time...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen