If not Voss, then who ?

Humpers · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm **Posts:** 5156

It's a shame Kingsley is contracted until the end of 2028, as he'd be my first choice for coach. It might still be worth making an enquiry—coaching a big Victorian club could have some appeal—but I'd expect GWS to hold him to his contract.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 12:59 pm

Juanita Jones wrote:

sinbagger wrote:

SurreyBlue wrote:

FRASER'S FIVE BIG BLUES CHANGES
THESE are the five big changes Carlton has made under Josh Fraser.

The first is in game style – the Blues have taken control of the ball considerably more under interim coach Fraser, with Champion Data ranking Carlton No.1 for time in possession over the past three weeks and taking more uncontested marks than any team in this period. They were ranked 14th for time in possession and 13th for uncontested marks under Michael Voss this year.

Secondly, the Blues have left the corridor footy and are opting for the boundary line to set up their plan. This has seen them be less predictable with their ball movement and they have increased their 45-degree kick percentage, making them move the ball with purpose. Their ball movement has improved from their defensive half and they are transitioning and scoring more from that part of the ground.

The third priority for the Blues has been Fraser not taking his eye off Carlton's strengths. Their stoppage game has always been seen as the central part of the Blues' hopes, but it has lifted again and in Friday's win over Geelong they scored 49 points from clearances – the most the Cats have conceded this season. Defensively, they are conceding almost four fewer goals per game than the first nine rounds of the season and their scoring efficiency from forward-50 entries has also spiked.

The next change has been moving the magnets and experimenting. Will Hayward has moved to the wing and played more than half of his game time in that role, up from 96 per cent of his time forward under Voss. Harry McKay has played 30 per cent in the ruck, becoming the Blues' No.2 in that position. He barely played there under Voss (three per cent).

Jagga Smith has gone up in midfield time in the past three weeks (59 per cent to 76) and Ben Ainsworth has also been sent in the centre bounce 24.5 per cent of the time, a real change from his previous 97 per cent as a forward.

The fifth change has been some newer faces thrown in, with Jack Ison making his debut in the game that followed Voss' sacking and adding some class, and Billy Wilson also returning to the side. Flynn Young was also busy on Friday night with two goals.

Carlton can heap more pain on a wounded Essendon***** next week, with its three games after that (following its round14 bye) against Greater Western Sydney, West Coast and Richmond, giving it a sneaky chance of playing in a wildcard game.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1531805/cal ... -departing

Just confirming what most of us have seen and raised. :razz:

The first three are player execution, no-one knows for sure if this was the players finally executing Voss game plan for complete games or Fraser rebuilding the plan from scratch. Given this was the plan that they’ve been practicing all preseason, and the way they played pre season, and the way they played in halves up to and including the Brisbane game, you can probably make a good guess at its genesis. Just because they’re playing a different way fir entire games doesn’t mean they weren’t trying and learning before.

I’m pretty sure Harry has played second ruck before under Voss for periods. Midfield mix has changed more, agree with that, nice tweak.

Ison probably would have debuted if Voss stayed on, he was banging the door down in the VFL. Wilson and Flynn already debuted under Voss. Debuting one player is hardly a massive change in tactics, I mean how many players have we debuted under Voss so far this year?

You’re just confused about cause and effect.

Just like you seem to think I wanted to keep Voss, I’m happy to move on from Voss, but don’t try to rewrite history.

I suspect that while Voss MIGHT have added Ison he would have dropped the younger players after one match. There is a strong chance that Ison, Flynn & Wilson might have been dropped instead of getting a run in the senior side.

You're being facetious?

Ison was bashing the door down for 4 weeks. Wilson was next in line because he was banging the door for 6 weeks. Fynn Young was banging the door 6 weeks prior too as a lead up forward, but a healthier list than the usual and his deadly left foot faded on him somewhat. No doubt Ison was next. He was all the talk around the club for 4 weeks.

If you have a look at the injury list after the Doggies and Port games you wouldn't think he'd be dropped.

You reckon Moir, Fog or Cottrell would have taken his spot for the Port game after a lively debut, when his photo was featured front and back page of the Herald Sun, having 15 disposals, 411 metres gained, 6 score involvements and kicking 1.2?

Then followed that up against Port with 17 disposals, 246 metres gained, 9 score involvements and kicking 1.3. One of those behinds was an overturned goal by snickometer, and the other reviewed, touched on the line....he was robbed.

Nah, if Vossy wanted Williams for the Cats game, he would have dropped Young after his quiet game against Port.

I posted I didn't think Vossy would last the season, but didn't heap all the blame on him when he resigned. Some of those efforts after half time from senior players looked pathetic. Do you blame Fagan, 2 time Premiership coach for similar 2nd half fade outs by his players? Players have really responded since Vossy left. Not that much changed in game plan against the Bulldogs. They were hit with injury to ket talls, Libba and Bont and Richards on one leg. Sugar hit? Maybe Players had a hard look at themselves? Possibly.

Game plan has changed in a few areas as Pat's Fitztrick posted in Josh Fraser Appreciation Society thread

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=2537&mode

Glad we have evolved and Game plan tweaked. Apart from the debut and unveiling of Ison, the additions of Young Byrne and Acres have been due to injury; ie along with the Ison influence, game plan change has been the main reason for improvement moreso than personnel changes. After all, we won without Acres Young and Byrne.

The thread asks for us to move on from Vossy and look at whose next. Its nice to be nice towards those who tried their best for the team, but failed.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 1:14 pm

sinbagger wrote:

Carlton AFL debutants under Michael Voss — 2024 to 2026 (to Round 12)

|Year |Player |Debut Round |Position |Total Games*|
|--------|----------------|-----------------------------|-----------|------------|
|**2024**|Jaxon Binns† |Rd 7, 2024 vs Geelong |Wing |8 |
|**2024**|Cooper Lord |Rd 23, 2024 vs West Coast |Midfielder |24 |
|**2024**|Ashton Moir |Rd 23, 2024 vs West Coast |Forward |11 |
|**2025**|Lucas Camporeale|Rd 1, 2025 vs Richmond |Wing |3 |
|**2025**|Will White† |Rd 4, 2025 vs Collingwood |Forward |14 |
|**2025**|Matt Carroll |Rd 5, 2025 vs West Coast |Wing |24+ |
|**2025**|Harry O’Farrell |Rd 11, 2025 vs Essendon** |Key Fwd |6 |
|**2025**|Hudson O’Keeffe |Rd 13, 2025 vs Essendon** |Ruck |8 |
|**2025**|Billy Wilson |Rd 16, 2025 vs Port Adelaide |Def/Mid |4+ |
|**2025**|Flynn Young |Rd 16, 2025 vs Port Adelaide |Forward |~9 |
|**2026**|Jagga Smith |OR 2026 vs Sydney |Midfielder |11 |
|**2026**|Harry Dean |OR 2026 vs Sydney |Key Def |~12 |
|**2026**|Talor Byrne |Rd 3, 2026 vs Melbourne |Forward |5+ |
|**2026**|Wade Derksen |Rd 4, 2026 vs North Melbourne|Key Def/Fwd|1+ |

† = no longer at the club (Binns delisted end 2025; White not re-listed for 2026)

*Sources: Blueseum (primary), Wikipedia, Carlton FC. Game tallies marked + are approximate given Blueseum edit dates and the season being in progress. Harry Dean was named the Round 12 Rising Star nominee, one of five 2026 Carlton debutants alongside Smith, Byrne, and Derksen.

Total true AFL debutants under Voss: 14 across three seasons (3 in 2024, 7 in 2025, 4 in 2026).

But Voss never plays young players right? :lol:

Edit: removed Ison from the list, I need a stronger prompt!

Goes to show, we all have our perspective and beliefs. Some of us are apopheniacs.

There's good reason I'm not applying for the Coaching role. Its not for the faint hearted.

Sometimes it pays to stick with a failed coach. Hardwick and Clarkson who were lucky to survive an axe that had already swung. They won 7 Flags between them.
We extended Vossy's tenure believing we were very close to a Flag. It didn't work out that way.

What went wrong after 2023?

Some say we didnt top up with talent, some say injury toll, some say some players were a cancer, some say Game Plan was too taxing for 4 quarters, some blame the Board.

We must have been close, because a few recent tweaks from an Assistant Coach to see a return of what we were doing and was working for us in the preseason and our fortunes change, our spirit uplifted and we all seem to have stuck to our conviction.

We were all right and we were all wrong. Pity we couldnt all agree and meet somewhere in the middle. We needed a bit of tweaking. That's what psychologists are for.

Thank god we've seen some light of late. We will know more from our ladder position and percentage.

windy · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 2:22 pm

So Keogh is an Apopheniac?

And one of these days he will post something we haven't seen 90 times previously.

Repeating stuff ad infinitum doesn't make it true, even if you insist some of the stuff are "facts".

And calling posters that do not agree with your opinions "idiots" does not belong in this Forum.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 4:21 pm

Listen to what Dean had to see about our game plan in the last 3 weeks.

He says it at 1.45

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2038330/press-conference-dean-on-rising-star-nomination?videoId=2038330&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1780358557001

Its what I thought. We were doing things differently in the preseason, and in the first half of the Swans and Richmond games, then the rot set in.

17th Premiership · **Joined:** Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am **Posts:** 2910

bondiblue wrote:

sinbagger wrote:

Carlton AFL debutants under Michael Voss — 2024 to 2026 (to Round 12)

|Year |Player |Debut Round |Position |Total Games*|
|--------|----------------|-----------------------------|-----------|------------|
|**2024**|Jaxon Binns† |Rd 7, 2024 vs Geelong |Wing |8 |
|**2024**|Cooper Lord |Rd 23, 2024 vs West Coast |Midfielder |24 |
|**2024**|Ashton Moir |Rd 23, 2024 vs West Coast |Forward |11 |
|**2025**|Lucas Camporeale|Rd 1, 2025 vs Richmond |Wing |3 |
|**2025**|Will White† |Rd 4, 2025 vs Collingwood |Forward |14 |
|**2025**|Matt Carroll |Rd 5, 2025 vs West Coast |Wing |24+ |
|**2025**|Harry O’Farrell |Rd 11, 2025 vs Essendon*** |Key Fwd |6 |
|**2025**|Hudson O’Keeffe |Rd 13, 2025 vs Essendon*** |Ruck |8 |
|**2025**|Billy Wilson |Rd 16, 2025 vs Port Adelaide |Def/Mid |4+ |
|**2025**|Flynn Young |Rd 16, 2025 vs Port Adelaide |Forward |~9 |
|**2026**|Jagga Smith |OR 2026 vs Sydney |Midfielder |11 |
|**2026**|Harry Dean |OR 2026 vs Sydney |Key Def |~12 |
|**2026**|Talor Byrne |Rd 3, 2026 vs Melbourne |Forward |5+ |
|**2026**|Wade Derksen |Rd 4, 2026 vs North Melbourne|Key Def/Fwd|1+ |

† = no longer at the club (Binns delisted end 2025; White not re-listed for 2026)

*Sources: Blueseum (primary), Wikipedia, Carlton FC. Game tallies marked + are approximate given Blueseum edit dates and the season being in progress. Harry Dean was named the Round 12 Rising Star nominee, one of five 2026 Carlton debutants alongside Smith, Byrne, and Derksen.

Total true AFL debutants under Voss: 14 across three seasons (3 in 2024, 7 in 2025, 4 in 2026).

But Voss never plays young players right? :lol:

Edit: removed Ison from the list, I need a stronger prompt!

Goes to show, we all have our perspective and beliefs. Some of us are apopheniacs.

There's good reason I'm not applying for the Coaching role. Its not for the faint hearted.

Sometimes it pays to stick with a failed coach. Hardwick and Clarkson who were lucky to survive an axe that had already swung. They won 7 Flags between them.
We extended Vossy's tenure believing we were very close to a Flag. It didn't work out that way.

What went wrong after 2023?

Some say we didnt top up with talent, some say injury toll, some say some players were a cancer, some say Game Plan was too taxing for 4 quarters, some blame the Board.

We must have been close, because a few recent tweaks from an Assistant Coach to see a return of what we were doing and was working for us in the preseason and our fortunes change, our spirit uplifted and we all seem to have stuck to our conviction.

We were all right and we were all wrong. Pity we couldnt all agree and meet somewhere in the middle. We needed a bit of tweaking. That's what psychologists are for.

Thank god we've seen some light of late. We will know more from our ladder position and percentage.

Excellent post. :thumbsup:

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6803

windy wrote:

So Keogh is an Apopheniac?

And one of these days he will post something we haven't seen 90 times previously.

Repeating stuff ad infinitum doesn't make it true, even if you insist some of the stuff are "facts".

And calling posters that do not agree with your opinions "idiots" does not belong in this Forum.

Windy
I could give you so many examples of how passed boards and The Pratt’s, Mathiesons, Smorgons and Kerrs have [REDACTED] this club up that I haven’t posted
Not much point because you and others will repeat yourselves with your mindless replies

What gets me is
Cazzeman, Blue Vain, Dannyboy they seem to want to ignore any opinion about why we have been the worst performed team of the 18 in the last quarter of a century
Gold Coast give us a good run but they are still a new club in a climate not conducive to franchise teams
Something isn’t right.
I give my opinions my source is good
Don’t trust me and live in denial
I also give my opinions on what should be done
You are an idiot to not think otherwise after 25 years that it isn’t
The head coach
The CEO
The Head of Football
The Head of List Management
The Head of Fitness
The Cleaner
How many have we had in 25 years
And nothing changes
So what’s your reason
Your also repetitive
And your also predictable when you make an appearance
Do you have any opinion or are you just good at posting fluff

So what’s your reasoning about us under performing
Got any opinions or like your name you just waft expelled air

The appointments of the Senior Coach and List Manager are the most crucial appointments this club has had in a quarter of a century
Lets be positive for a second
We have core of excellent young players
Because if the board and the families interfere because itdoesn’t suit their agenda in we are [REDACTED] for a long time
With the compromised drafts 2027 and beyond

windy · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 8:28 pm

Again with calling a poster an idiot.

I leave the football analysis to those that know better.

Certainly not you.

I thoroughly enjoyed the win against Geelong, and the joy on the player's and fan's faces.

How about you?

Keep repeating your nonsense.

You lose more and more credibility with each tirade.

GWS · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 8:49 pm

keogh wrote:

Your also repetitive
And your also predictable when you make an appearance

Hmmm…

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6803

windy wrote:

Again with calling a poster an idiot.

I leave the football analysis to those that know better.

Certainly not you.

I thoroughly enjoyed the win against Geelong, and the joy on the player's and fan's faces.

How about you?

Keep repeating your nonsense.

You lose more and more credibility with each tirade.

I enjoyed it
How surprising
No opinions
You are 100% vanilla mate
When you ask something you attack the man
Didn’t expect much to be honest
Which bit is nonsense?

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6803

GWS wrote:

keogh wrote:

Your also repetitive
And your also predictable when you make an appearance

Hmmm…

Judging your posts you have some sense
Tell me
Would you prefer a tried and true coach
Or a newbie with assistant experience?

GWS · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 9:11 pm

keogh wrote:

GWS wrote:

keogh wrote:

Your also repetitive
And your also predictable when you make an appearance

Hmmm…

Judging your posts you have some sense
Tell me
Would you prefer a tried and true coach
Or a newbie with assistant experience?

I have some sense?

Geez, don’t tell Syd… :lol:

I put some stats up the other day showing that of the last 60 preliminary finalists only four were coached by coaches at their second or third club (Voss being one).

I’m all for new ideas and people who are up to speed with the modern game but just because you go down that path doesn’t guarantee you’ll get it right.

And the vast majority of clubs don’t.

12 individuals have coached a team to a flag in the last 20 years and yet every year there are 18 of them trying to win one.

That’s 360 chances to win a flag and yet only 12 people have managed it and between them they’ve won 20 of 360 opportunities.

That’s a 5.55% success rate.

There’s no guaranteed path to finding the right coach.

The stats suggest an up and comer is far more likely but more often than not you’ll get it wrong and let’s face it… if you listen to most AFL people talk it’s not hard to come to the conclusion that the times where someone got the choice right may just have been dumb luck.

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6803

GWS wrote:

keogh wrote:

GWS wrote:

keogh wrote:

Your also repetitive
And your also predictable when you make an appearance

Hmmm…

Judging your posts you have some sense
Tell me
Would you prefer a tried and true coach
Or a newbie with assistant experience?

I have some sense?

Geez, don’t tell Syd… :lol:

I put some stats up the other day showing that of the last 60 preliminary finalists only four were coached by coaches at their second or third club (Voss being one).

I’m all for new ideas and people who are up to speed with the modern game but just because you go down that path doesn’t guarantee you’ll get it right.

And the vast majority of clubs don’t.

12 individuals have coached a team to a flag in the last 20 years and yet every year there are 18 of them trying to win one.

That’s 360 chances to win a flag and yet only 12 people have managed it and between them they’ve won 20 of 360 opportunities.

That’s a 5.55% success rate.

There’s no guaranteed path to finding the right coach.

The stats suggest an up and comer is far more likely but more often than not you’ll get it wrong and let’s face it… if you listen to most AFL people talk it’s not hard to come to the conclusion that the times where someone got the choice right may just have been dumb luck.

So from that which I agree with you want the best people to judge who is the best coach
As the I said the senior coach isn’t good at everything
It’s important his weaknesses are covered by their assistants
McCrae and Leppitsch is no better example
One a great player manager
Another great tactician
Wright orchestrated that deal
I have the upmost faith he can deliver the right combo
But…….
At the risk of repeating myself you know what I’m going to say

GWS · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 9:36 pm

As others have pointed out previously I don’t think the dynamics are what they were in the past.

I don’t have any inside information on the coaching selection panel and its processes and I’d suggest neither does anyone else in here but from sniffing the wind I’d be very surprised if it’s not a decision made by Wright and Davies.

And if they’re overruled (as has happened before) I’d suggest that based on their reputations and the future reputations they’re trying to forge by rebuilding this club, they’d walk out if that happens.

Have a little faith, stop bitching and respond to what happens rather than what might.

I understand that the behaviour of those at the club hasn’t exactly been exemplary over the last couple of decades but it wasn’t exactly school prefect level before that when we were winning flags.

But what I see at the moment is a couple of significant appointments in Wright and Davies who are people who don’t take bullshit.

Cooke was only a transitional appointment but if he did one thing right for us it was appointing Graham Wright.

I could be wrong but I don’t see Wright as someone who will settle for being overruled or accepting mediocrity.

I have nothing to base that on other than instinct but that’s also all I’ve got.

Like you and all the rest of us.

TAFKA BamBam7 · **Joined:** Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:11 pm **Posts:** 1025

Look, if things don't settle down in here, I'm gonna have to send you all to timeout.

keogh · **Joined:** Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am **Posts:** 6803

I feel similar about Wright
My feel about Cook was he wanted to give it away but Carlton offered him
a kings ransom to be the CEO
Was too old but hey some extra cash why not
Plenty of money for overseas European Trips and the wife’s plastic surgery
Wright looks like he means business
Let’s hope he doesn’t become Carltonised

GWS · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2026 10:47 pm

After the career Cook’s had I don’t think a few extra paydays were going to make any material difference.

He’s been on high six and low seven figure incomes for a couple of decades. Invest that sort of income wisely and I don’t think you need extra cash for some liposuction or a cruise on the Danube.

He took the job at Carlton because he was flattered and thought he could do some good and he did.

Is everything fixed?

No, but he left the club in a better place than it was when he got there and he handed his job to someone who appears to be highly competent.

Crusader · **Posted:** Wed Jun 03, 2026 12:50 am

Wright has come via the Filth. He’s on fraud watch until #17 is on the shelf.

Rules.

99prelim · **Joined:** Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm **Posts:** 3567

Voss' appointment was irrational and negligent at the time

As a result, it proved to be diabolical from the perspective of 5 wasted years

His win/loss record is masked by the fact that he probably inherited our best list on-field and our most stable off-field support in 2 decades

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 11449

99prelim wrote:

Voss' appointment was irrational and negligent at the time

As a result, it proved to be diabolical from the perspective of 5 wasted years

His win/loss record is masked by the fact that he probably inherited our best list on-field and our most stable off-field support in 2 decades

Ouch. I suppose looking back, we can’t argue too much. :cry:

If not Voss, then who ?

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