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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 10:03 am 
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Harry Vallence
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I know we only played one half of footy, again, but I did think there was a considerable mindset change.
This was particularly evident for H but not only him.
So Voss's, and the players', task this week is to keep that going.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 10:59 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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GreatEx wrote:
keogh wrote:

Some views
Zac Williams on 1.4 million was useless in the first half. He can kick a footy but doesn’t get it . Soft as warm butter. Only Carlton would pay 5.5 million for a half back flanker over 6 years thinking you could turn him into a midfielder


I did some internet sleuthing to see if that 1.4m figure was verified anywhere. No luck. What's your source on this? And what was he paid in other years to result in such backloading? Presumably we had him playing for a bargain price at least one other year, but you never advertise a positive so we missed it.

With the way the game's going today, filling the team with quick flanker types with good skills is the right move, so I've no worries with a ZW type playing midfield. Can't defend him on the hypochondria, though. Every week he seems to think he's popped his Achilles.


I declare keogh is spinning it. He doesn't know what Williams is being paid this year, his Final year. No one knows outside the inner circle. You know there's non disclosures signed, for good reason. Keogh has conveniently ignored what we all know, and what we do know doesn't make his claim of $1.4M plausible.

It was no secret Williams was offered $900K pa to secure him, and he accepted. I don't why that part is even being questioned.

We knew he was a Carlton supporter from birth; his father's team. Due to his sister's illness and Melbourne was close to Albury we were a chance.
We also knew he had mates at Carlton, List manager SOS, and former GWS players Kennedy, Marchbank, Plowman, Setterfield; that was another advantage,

Why $900K?

Some may want to devalue his ability to suit their agenda, referring to him as a Rookie, but he was a reliable, attacking and skilful Half Back and promoted from rookie in his first year, after his debut at 18yo. He was hot. Due to injuries Williams starred in the middle in a Final for GWS to get them over the line. He followed that up with stints forward where he kicked goals. he could play, back, middle and forward. Good players can do that.

We needed to find midfield support for Cripps. Murphy was 32yo, Curnow 30yo and Lang crap. Dow, SPS, Fisher, Stocker, Walsh, Philp, were babies, 20yo Kennedy and Setterfield were still young and not setting the world on fire. Lang was as good as SOS could attract despite having a war chest he had to spend at least 95% of the salary cap. He had heaps of money to keep front loading stars Cripps, Murphy, and like he did with martin who was front loaded $1M which the GCS couldn't match.

We won 5 games, 2nd last on ladder and were struggling to attract any stars circa 2020 (familiar?)
Given it was Covid year and players away from home in footy bubbles in QLD and WA, players were not inclined to move.

PLUS, Carlton had to spend 95% of their salary cap and needed to front load stars. We didn't have many stars: Cripps Murphy (32yo) Docherty, Kade (35yo), Curnow (30yo), Gov (25), Martin (25), Newman (27). Weiters, Curnow and McKay. All you have to do is look at our list profile in 2020, and look at the salary cap we were compelled to spend $9,851500 (95%). We had 30 players under 23yo and Walshy was still being paid his first contract.

Williams was a Restricted Free Agent, meaning GWS could match an offer, and GWS wanted him to stay.
Austin had SOS's 105% war chest to spend, and was expected to add stars and experience to the young list and Cripps.
The only FA mids in 2020 were Williams, Couch (committed to STK), Atkins (GCS) and Isaacs, wing, was chasing more Flags (went to Geelong) who could play midfield to support Cripps. We didn't have much choice if we wanted to add star players to the kids.

Two other teams were after him, with similar offers before we raised our final offer by $50K.
Plus it was public knowledge carlton were going to get their man by Front Loading like they did with martin. No one knows how much, but we needed another star to front load given our list profile.

If you don't believe Carlton front loaded any players, let alone Williams, then do you think they front loaded the 30 kids under 30yo to make up the 95%? Do your sums and be realistic. The club front loaded stars who were going to stay, to reduce our exposure, and have some spare later when the kids put their hand out for more pay.

Instead of decreasing our exposure with high annual salary as player gets older, keogh believes, instead SOS, and Austin in 2020, chose to back end the aging player's contract. Doesn't make sense on many fronts ( ie List Profile), and there's no way anyone would know, but I'd back what was said publicly, and believe the club's/SOS's/Austin's strategy to front load stars, pay maximum 95% SC and bank the remaining 5% to build the war chest of 105% salary cap to spend on stars in the future (cream on top). Pity the so called highly paid "stars" SOS attracted in his time were only Martin and Gov. Austin spent the balance (over 95%) war chest on Williams (900) Saad (6200 and a car for his wife) and Cerra (600). Wooppeee. Where's the rest gone if its been back ended? To the kids? Yeah right.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 11:14 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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keogh wrote:

Here is the thing
Carlton have a core of what I think our very good young footballers

Wilson
Ison
Charleston
Byrne
O’Keefe
Flynn Young
Carroll
Cowan
Smith
Dean
O’ Farrell
Ben Campo
Lord
Moir
Derkson

That’s a good list of kids to build on

But it won’t happen with a muppet like Voss


You're correct. Don't forget Walker, making it 15 good kids.

Its a good base before the compromised Draft, so something has gone right, and you better believe it Vossy will not be coaching anyone in 2027, so why the doom and gloom?

You can add A Grade mid Walsh, bookends McKay and Weitering (coached properly) to that group, plus Hayward and Ainsworth (under a new coach) till kids grow and move past them.

That's a core group of 20 players. Proving this aint a rebuild like 2015.

Just get the team a great No 1 ruck, and if that happens to be a future great ruck, like Van Hatton (if we end up with the spoon), hope OKeefe develops into the great Fwd Ruck we expect, and get few GREAT FA's/ Trades with our war chest and 2026-2028 Draft picks and we can turn this around regardless of the Board.

We need a new fresh thinking Coach to reinvigorate and muster this group to take the team future renaissance of carlton: sustained success.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 11:18 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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What we witnessed in the 2nd half, and in the great halves and quarters we have played thus far, is that there's something to build on from here rather than the other way around.

I don't know any Carlton supporter who was positively stirred by our comeback after being 49 points down. Stirring stuff.

I love an honourable loss. It giives a chance to picks 2 & 3 in this years Draft AND paints a picture of potential for the Team moving forward in the Compromised Draft era.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 11:50 am 
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Ken Hunter
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how do we get picks 1 and 2?

and I would have thought 20 odd years of "honourable" losses (tanking) has shown that winning culture beats that any day of the week, especially if we have a good core of kids already at the club???

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 12:06 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Agree Dannyboy
Remember The Kreuzer Club. Why would you use pick 1 on a ruckman
This club is bereft on any footy intelligence
On Wiiliams being a mid which was the club’s view that’s another example of footy iq at the lowest ebb.
A guy who played 3 good quarters as a mid in 100 plus games
Williams is a good kick
Not much else. Lived a cushy footy existence at half back
Incredibly soft player that has cost us 5.5 million over 6 years


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 12:13 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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dannyboy wrote:
how do we get picks 1 and 2?

and I would have thought 20 odd years of "honourable" losses (tanking) has shown that winning culture beats that any day of the week, especially if we have a good core of kids already at the club???


:clap:


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 12:18 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Williams isn’t half the issue at the moment. Plays back, forward and midfield and does the job as asked and required.
Not his fault his body has let him down and maybe if we managed him better and rested him when needed, just like Martin and some others, we could get more out of him for a longer period.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 12:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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windy wrote:
keogh wrote:
There is a lot of things that your not meant to know but do
Word of mouth from reliable credible sources resources
I knew the club was rooted inside but not as bad as I thought

Blue Vain I understand how you feel about the club
You are sick of people like me being negative
You look for a glimmer of hope through stats

But the club cannot move forward properly without a change at board level
People with footy knowledge that care about the club first and foremost

Doesn’t happen with these 8 individuals
You do know that changing the constitution was tried by this board a few years back so that 5000 members had to vote for an alternative ticket to challenge these people
Thank god it was derailed and the number 100 has stayed

The board meddles with football decisions that effect on field performance not to mention a selfish culture


English?

What does this even mean?


Tim English obviously


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 2:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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I don't mind Williams in the middle. He's no CB beast but he's handy during general play. A reliable mark, decent disposal and can read the play ok. He did miss a target badly leading to a turnover in the middle, but mostly was good with his disposal. Nice corralling of Coleman in Q4 – not easy.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 5:45 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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diesel95 wrote:
I don't mind Williams in the middle. He's no CB beast but he's handy during general play. A reliable mark, decent disposal and can read the play ok. He did miss a target badly leading to a turnover in the middle, but mostly was good with his disposal. Nice corralling of Coleman in Q4 – not easy.


Williams is a quality player who would get a gig at any other club. Have a look at Martin at Cats. Class is class.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 5:47 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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Williams has been more than handy this season but not worth the $1.75m we are paying him .


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 5:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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:D AFTER tax!


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 9:30 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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Williams is ok but not worth the $3m we’re paying him this year.


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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 11:39 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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keogh wrote:
Agree Dannyboy
Remember The Kreuzer Club. Why would you use pick 1 on a ruckman
This club is bereft on any footy intelligence
On Wiiliams being a mid which was the club’s view that’s another example of footy iq at the lowest ebb.
A guy who played 3 good quarters as a mid in 100 plus games
Williams is a good kick
Not much else. Lived a cushy footy existence at half back
Incredibly soft player that has cost us 5.5 million over 6 years


You are living in the past keogh.
Move forward man.

Kreuser was 2008
Williams was 2020

Next year is 2027.

Whether one thinks Kreuzer and Williams turned out good or bad, does not erase the legit reasons they were selected. If it wasn’t us, it WOULD have been some other team such was their value.

They were not shit footballers when we selected them. Deny that all you like.

King of hindsight.
Look forward.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2026 11:41 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Club_29 wrote:
Williams has been more than handy this season but not worth the $1.75m we are paying him .


Are you saying he’s worth the $1.4M keogh thinks we are paying him?

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2026 12:10 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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dannyboy wrote:
how do we get picks 1 and 2?

and I would have thought 20 odd years of "honourable" losses (tanking) has shown that winning culture beats that any day of the week, especially if we have a good core of kids already at the club???


Im torn between tanking and barracking for us to win.
There’s pros and cons for both.

Worked for Pies.

Was it tanking for Kreuzer that killed our campaign?
We tanked the last 4 weeks. We were a basket case, not because of tanking.


Anyway I’ll explain how having pick 1 gets us pick 2 and 3.

1. Carlton with pick one bid for Cochrane. Port matches
2 Carlton have had their pick 1, pushed to pick 2.plus receive an extra pick at the end of round 1 as a compo pick
3. Carlton pick best available outside Walker, I’d love Luke Jackson like Van Hatton
4, Next team pick Walker and Carlton matches with our Swans 1st round pick and end of round 1 compo pick ( which isn’t all eaten up, merely pushed back 6-7 spots.because we didn’t have to match the higher points required for Walker going at 1 or 2.


End of round 1 compo pick effectively becomes a 2nd round pick to add to the other 2 2nd round picks we have ( from NM & GCS)

If we don’t tank we get Walker by matching with our 2 1sts therefore missing out on pick 2 and end of round 1 compo pick.

We are desperate for a bonafide mobile ruck like Luke Jackson who helped Dees win flag in his first year , and Van Hatton seems to be similar if not better than Luke Jackson.

Midfield Van Hatton Walsh Walker Smith, Lord, Ison, Cowan Ben Campo, to take over from Cripps Hewett Cerra Williams.

We have 16 other under 23 players plus 3 1sts 2 2nds & 2 3rds from our 2027 and our 2028 picks to trade.

It’s an option The Board would be considering as we debate.

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2026 9:42 am 
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Ken Hunter
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not how I read the rules at all,

I thought the compo picks was given if your pick in the first 5 rounds moves out beyond the first 5.

So team 1 has pick 1 pick matched it uses pick 2 (no compo)

So team 3 as pick 4 pick matched by both Port and Carlton they move out of first 5 picks get compo pick

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2026 10:09 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
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1) I completely get it re torn between losing and winning!
2) This new system goes too far, now incentivising top 5 teams to bid on players who might not actually even be a top 5 prospect so they get the additional pick.
3) I think we get that additional pick at the end of first round even if we don't bid... as long as we finish bottom 5, if anyone bids before us, we get an extra pick even if its not for Walker.... I think.
4) I think a winning culture is worth more than the pick value of tanking... to a point. The scenario under this new system might mean we get additional first rounder(s), not just the 'Kruezer Cup' scenario which was simply about who gets 1st vs 2nd pick...

- Geelong were a perennial basket case of 'handbags'.... until they turned it around in 2007 and haven't looked back since.
- Ninthmond could not make finals and had not had a serious bid for 35 years! And were on the verge of sacking their coach (again).... until 2017 happened...
- Melbourne hadn't been able to win a flag for decades. And looked to have stuffed up their most recent attempt to rebuild, also on the verge of sacking their coach after finishing 17th in 2019 and 9th in 2020. But then 2021 happened and, frankly, they should have gone on with it in 2022 and possibly 2023 as well!
- At the end of 2021 after Buckley was sacked at Collingwood and they finished 17th, commentators predicted years of pain for the Pies who were considered to have an ordinary-to-rubbish list, propped up by some ageing stars. In 2022 they finished 4th and then won the flag in 2023!
- Half way through 2024, Brisbane were languishing at 13th and commentators were forecasting the end of Fagan and the end of the Lions window of opportunity... a few months later they won the flag and commentators now had them favourites for the following year (which they won) and predicting an era of dominance!
- And most recently, Melbourne were widely expected to finish in the bottom 4, with a very ordinary list, a new rookie coach and having just offloaded 2 of their best 5 players, and only receiveing a ood deal for one of them, and then pushing out their AA defender. (Not to mention the Board trouble that continues to plague them...)

Things seem rubbish (well, they ARE rubbish) at the moment. But things can also turn around faster than it may appear.


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2026 10:23 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Thanks for making me feel better 17 th P .

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