C'mon Braithy, stop being so naive.
Do you honestly think the club just asked 1 player when they knew TDK was going all year?
I'll say it again, Reidy was a 3rd string ruck behind Jackson and Darcy.
Maybe we should've got Mason Cox?
As for Sydney, they have William Green, VFL stats wise he doesn't look much better than HOK and hasn't played 1 game of AFL and only 1 year younger.

Not getting upset, just putting facts to the BS.

oh it's BS is it? and you know that?




haha yes. yes i do.

our club is achingly incompetent. 26 years and counting since we were anything. we've systematically butchered development, we've purposely tanked for draft picks - which defies any kind of logic, since we're so inept at previously mentioned developing.

cox wouldn't have been bad for a 1 (or 2) year stop gap. can go forward and punch a goal. plays with more mongrel than both the McKay sisters, kemp, williams and mcgovern put together. and can ruck 70% game time. dare say cox could have lifted our cultural standard, bcos plenty of dockers are now saying that of him in the west.


just bcos you're behind darcy and jackson, doesn't mean you're a good footballer. 1 + 1 = 5 on that logic.

... like i said, you defend the club and it's decisions, it's players and the coaching, like we're top 4. but we are bottom 3 and the writing on this wall has been there for a season or three previous.

Doc's been warning us, i wanted to trade out harry at the end of 2024 and sell high and sack voss. you yelled the loudest at me about that and how full of bs i was.

and i just can't help but wonder how all that mindless defense of an organisation that is among the worst in the history of the game, is working out for you, now?

R U OK?

If you recall, I have wanted to trade Harry also and would've liked to if Charlie didn't do Charlie last year.
I also don't rate a lot of players in our team for our team, so you still can't even get those facts right.
I blame coaching and recruiting for not addressing the midfield for over 3 years now, so you are wrong again there.

The same Dockers fans that were spewing Reidy was leaving?
IIRC even Fremantle didn't want him to leave.
Adding to this, no list manager or recruiter worth their weight wouldn't have asked about other players and their availability.
And your 'inside' chat group would not know every single conversation the club and their staff have had.

I'm sure if we got Cox, you would've went to town on the club for that too.

I have consistently criticised the constant changing of coaches, it hasn't worked to date and it won't work.
Sacking Voss won't fix our list, our players won't all of a sudden be able to hit targets, not fumble the ball, tackle harder, run quicker, kick goals etc.
That is pure delusion.
As for Doc, a lot can be said by a person on how they conduct themselves, I'll leave that for you to work out.
And I think you have me confused with another poster, we are far from a top 4 club, that would require consistency and stability, something you seem to prefer we don't have.

Anyway, I am done with this pointless conversation.
I'll keep calling out BS with facts, you can interpret that how you like.

docker's players have lauded the inclusion of cox and said he's raised the needle among the playing group, on the field and culturally off of it - work ethic, application, professionalism etc

it's okay mate ... we're allowed to disagree and have different opinions. it's nothing personal.


to say removing voss is wrong bcos we've had too many coaches is pure nonsense. if the coach is not working out, you replace him. it's ridonks not to remove him bcos of public perception that we chew through coaches. leaving him for too long runs the risk of how many years does it set us back by leaving him here?

well brother. we're about to find that out. and with tassie coming, there was no time to delay such matters, imo. hence me advocating for him to be sent packing in 2024.


not sure how much sport you'e played, but a coach directly impacts how fast players run - to contests; to spoil, tackle, effect a contest etc, that's urgency. also coaches instil selflessness, application, execution etc ... did you not see basically this same playing group playing out of their skins with belief in 2023? did you not see our ball use & efficiency go up, backing each other up with selfess acts all over the park, tackling pressure - a league high .... voss at camp curnow was integral to all of that. problem is voss couldn't sustain this high water mark like say what we're seeing mitchell at hawks, fagan at lions or fly at Pies sustain it.


sacking coaches part of the game. to deny it for any cooked up reasons you are going on with, is to set the club back.


where the real change needs to come is from is internally. the higher ups at carlton fc who have wayyyy too much say over footy department matters. micromanaging, control freaks, call it what you will. but that is the core of the problems.

pagan and malthouse said they'd never seen anything like the meddling that goes on at our club. but we shouted them down as sour grapes. russell said the same while he was still there to our mutual friends and said more publicly after he left. Voss at some stage will tell his story and experiences, unless the club pay him hush money.



And with cox and me taking shots at the club. you find one single post where i've criticised our list building?

i'm more from the school of logic, these are all AFL players who have done this their whole life. we should be able to bring in anyone if our culture and application stacks up and turn them into the players we need.

like cats, hawks, swans and all the successful clubs have done over the last two decades. all they do is win.



you follow nba? the celtics, every year get these no name role players and late round draft picks and turn them into nba championship level players. bcos their system, coaching, standards stack up. they instil belief and set them up on for success on the court with clear and defined roles and expectations.

that same philosophy could definitely apply to afl, and in particular carlton if we ditch the arrogance and acquire some vision and forethought about where the game is right now and where it is headed.

I'll bite one last time.
1. I'll make this clearer, 'at the time' they did not want Reidy to leave (trade announced on 6th October), which is before they got Cox (23rd November)
What the view is now is inconsequential to the view at the time we got Reidy.
And this doesn't change the fact that we targeted a ruck who the club thought could fill TDK hole with what we could afford, still making your original point rubbish.
You also still haven't said who we should've/could've got instead to 'improve' on Pitto.
2. If a club keeps sacking coaches then this makes the place less attractive to high quality coaches and players, it is that simple.
We know this because of the coaches and players that have knocked us back over the last 20 years.
Including recently when Hinkely said he'd coach the Tigers for FREE over coaching the Blues.
3. As for a 'single post', this whole conversation literally started by you criticising the club about our ruck stocks.


As for this:

I owned gyms and I had the luxury of dealing with high performance coaches from multiple AFL and NRL clubs over many years (amongst other professionals) and this has to be one of the most absurd things I've heard, sorry.
These players are professional athletes and competitors first and foremost, to think a coach can stop them from competing is odd, but to think a coach can make a player faster is.............
If you really do think Voss is instructing our players to fade out in second halves or putting them in a position too, then we have a bigger issue of potentially being done for tanking.

The more likely issue is a lack of belief in the players ability to deliver both individually and with each other, coaches can only talk so much, it is up to the players to work through this together and make the changes themselves. Watching players spread when Jagga gets the ball and not as much when other players do, speaks volumes. Confidence is a funny thing.

bullet points.

• reidy is another big bodied, lumbering clusterfck of a ruck. the game has gone past he and his ilk - which funnily enough our list is stacked with.

• the club and its judgments and decisions is what has us chin deep in the brown stuff right now, with no way out, other than a prolonged rebuild. why you keep exercising faith in them, to quote my son: is crazy work bro.

• it's part of the business. coaches come and go. outrageous you think it harms us as a club to draw a new coach bcos we sacked the last one. the only thing hurting us is - the perception and accounts of the higher ups meddling in footy dept matter unabated. we're still one of the biggest clubs in this comp. there's no coach existing or prospective that would not want to coach us back into contention and relevance with 120k members cheering them on. they'd be a god, if they pulled it off.

• holy shit. owning gyms is a world away from a competitive, physical sport. I've had coaches where i've wanted to and have run through a wall for them. coaches that i'm still closer with now, than my own old man. footy, boxing ... the more you call this kinda stuff absurd, the more outta touch you sound. all due respect, mate, it's a clueless take.

these players like mckay, gov, williams. they're a story as old as time itself in pro sports. get their big payday, and suddenly lose the hunger and want. The only way of remotely untapping it in these useless slugs of human beings, is a good coach. a motivator, someone with a plan that they believe in they think are suited for.

i'll tell you the problem.

there's no composure at our club. watching voss shit his pants on the sidelines in the 3-4th qtrs is filtering down to the playing group. try and play footy, or try to box without composure and calm, you gas out. you cramp up, you lose your way. we might be fit and look a million dollars in preseason verse the cats. but suddenly in a real game worth 4 points with real bullets, we melt. we play stressed and anxious and we gas out.

that is what's happening here. it's mental, with a very physical side-effect. voss is trying his hardest, but he doesn't have the demeanour to lead this club, or any club. a career line coach at best bcos you can't be having the keys to the car, when you shit your pants like he does.

compare to mitchell - steely resolve and fire on the sidelines but addresses all his players calmly and with purpose. fly - laughing along with the players and cracking jokes - diffusing the seriousness and keeping everyone light.

it's all personality and who they are. and it's what voss is - someone way too stressed for the top job bcos that stress becomes contagious thru the playing group. and stress kills cardio, it kills muscles, makes us tight, can't think , can't kick, can't mark and we flail.

So still no option on who we 'should've' taken?

3 of arguably the best coaches currently coaching, Clarkson, Hardwick (rumoured IIRC) and McRae, they all said no to us.
Not sure what you think is so attractive about a club that in more or less of your own words gets in the way of its coaches, because those 3, Hinkley and former coaches as you said don't see it that way.
Sacking coaches over and over again, feeds into this narrative no matter what you think, it's a bit of a poison chalice, especially for younger coaches.
It has become a bit of a self perpetuating issue.
I just seen a clip on Footy on Nine where both Eddie and Hird said no decent coach or player would go to Carlton until there is consistency.
Clearly I am not the only one who sees it this way.
Maybe GW can break that, he seems to have a plan.
But he also did allegedly have a crack at McRae so there is that.

We've all played football, that is what you needed, not all of us do.
It seems your issue with Voss is based on personal preferences.

You might want to check the membership thread also.......it isn't 120k, not even close.

Coincidently it seems, Zac Williams seems to be motivated by Voss and has a lot of respect for him.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/1488123/inside-the-huddle-zac-williams-tragic-year-and-how-michael-voss-helped-him-through-it?videoId=1488123&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1775034000001

i know voss pretty well as kids and have a fair few mutual friends right now. i'd always talk to him if our paths crossed. nothing against him at all.
my issue with voss is our performance. our results, and the way we play. it's archaic and obviously unsuccessful. his lust for the contest & big bodied mids and lumbering cumbersome rucks is baffling, and again, obviously doesn't work.



i just want win. i want to feel how i did in 2023. i don't care which coach, i'm not emotionally attached to players, only our guernsey and winning. once we start winning 120k members would be a slam dunk.

there's not a coach out there who wouldn't want to coach us into glory. not one. Wright's job is to iron out the perceptions and straighten the ship in regard to, too many cooks cooking the chook, if you know what i mean.

didn't read or watch or click on the link. judging by title, it looks to be another puff piece about what a top bloke michael voss is. which i cannot argue with, bcos voss is an excellent human. he just can't coach.

zac williams - sweet merciful jesus. he is everything that is currently wrong with this club. a conditional me first pea-heart, who stops at the first sign of a bruise, and also happens to be in a contract year playing for his future.

i'd sooner care what mariah carey thinks of voss than this dill.