Then implement the game style you want and start playing it. It can’t go any worse than the dross we dish up now

So Voss has no say in the make up of the list?

Has little say on game day moves and strategies?

Does he have any say on the game plan at all?

Sounds like he's only there to be nice to the media...


I like the bloke... I hope we can make it work... but...!

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

As Craig McRae said on that horse whisperer show. When he became head coach, everyone listened to him.

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He also said he's not interested in draft picks and goes the trade route. That's his decision, right or wrong and will be judged on that accordingly.

At least he makes decisions... we make excuses

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“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman

Yeah that's right. I just don't understand this concept that Voss has not had a pretty big say in the direction of the playing group.

The only out for Voss is if he has been stifled by the powers that be, that could be reality.

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No. The question was, what game style would you like to play with the list composition we have. Simplistic stuff like just "implement the game style you want and start playing it", how do you think that will really work out?

Sure, let's play an uncontested game style. We're the worst kicking side in the AFL by a significant margin. But let's kick it around and keep it off the opposition. How is that going to work for us? FMD.
Yes Voss has plenty of say on game style and we're playing exactly the game style our list composition permits. We currently have a midfield core of Cripps, Cerra, Hewitt. Any outside midfield run of Walsh, Jagga, Cottrell or Elijah Hollands isn't there. Why do you think we're running Williams, Motlop, Moir etc through the middle?
To give us outside run. Uncontested options. But how many would be good enough to do that in another team?

Any defensive half skill is on the sidelines or just out of form in Saad, Newman, Boyd. Voss knew half back run and ball use is the current game. That's why he wanted Houston but was overruled. So we blame Voss for not having an alternative game style but we don't give him the players to play one.

But no, let's just do it anyway. Just play the game style you want! Who would you like as our half back distributors? We've tried Hollands, Cerra, McGovern, Wilson, Docherty, Williams, Carroll. Who would you like next? Acres? Cripps? Hewett? Fogarty?

This is the game style that got us into a preliminary final in 2023 and had us sitting second on the ladder at this time last year. Contested football and scoring from stoppage isn't outdated football. The top top 7 teams for scoring from stoppage are Bulldogs, Geelong, GC, Adelaide, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Brisbane. They also happen to be the top 7 teams on the ladder.
Top 6 for scoring from centre bounce are Hawthorn, Gold Coast, Bulldogs, Geelong, Collingwood, Adelaide. Look where they sit.
When we've been over run by teams this year, it's been drop in in contested footy and clearance that has beaten us. Look at the Collingwood game. 1 quarter they decimated us at contested footy and that was the game. Our strength was taken off us and was used to bash us.

Any available talent currently available is suited to bludgeon, bash football. Who is putting their hands up in the VFL that can change that?
Campo's? How's their kicking going? Evans? Tried him. Binns, how did that work out? Are they going to turn us into a team that can kick the ball well?

The stats tell us this current team can't finesses and kick the ball. Anyone who can offer run or kick the ball is either sidelined (Jagga, Walsh, Elijah, Cottrell, Newman or they're filling holes elsewhere.

Yes, an issue is connecting contested ball to the outside and then connecting inside 50. We don't have the available players to do it. You can't say the coaches aren't trying, They're turning the team upside down. We've probably played 8 different wingers this year. 15-18 different defenders, 30 different forwards.
But you can't turn shit into chocolate cake and you can't just "tell" players to play a different style of game and expect them to excel at it. If you can't kick the ball, telling you to kick it better doesn't work.

We have the foundations of a good team. We have the players who can get first touch at the stoppage but we don't have the outside connection. Jagga, Walsh and hopefully a quality trade this year will give that. As will Walker in 2 years.
Nic Newman is 32 but FMD, Sidebottom is 34 and still playing good footy. The current game looks after older players who can use the footy. HOF is a beautiful kick, as is Harry Dean. Another year HOF and Wilson and Cowan will make a lot of difference.

Get Harry back into the forward line, hopefully Skull comes along and draft a quality small forward and we're not far off.
I understand the frustration but blowing the joint up doesn't work. For too long we've made decisions to make it look like we're doing something. Bringing in Pagan, bringing in Malthouse. Buying time and quietening the noise. That's all we've done.
Hopefully Cook and Wright don't fall into the same category.

IMHO, Voss is playing exactly the game style our list offers. Fill in the blanks. This team can still contend IMHO. Charlie, Harry, Jack, Weiters. A great spine has still got 5 years of good footy in it. I've watched Jagga from early years. He's a gun.
Blowing it all up and starting again to appease the loudest voices is what we've done for 25 years. It hasn't worked. Back in the right people to make the right decisions and show some courage for a change.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

You make some good points but fail to acknowledge the clearly toxic culture which is obvious by inference
That final last year in Brisbane was beyond bad for many reasons
Docherty’s selection
Having an injured TDK as the sub
Subbing Kennedy early
Playing unfit players like Williams
Clearly Voss needed help tactically
The club didn’t address it
It’s been an ordinary 25 years
Why?
It’s because of the toxic environment created by the powers above the people involved in football

It will be interesting to see to see what Wright brings to the table
I do think we cannot play Cripps Cerra Walsh and Hewett in the one team
Trade one of those guys and use those picks to get some talent from other clubs
Small forward
Players that can kick
But BV it always comes back to the board and the people pulling the strings
There has to be change to some degree
The question is will Wright be allowed to to get it done

I am looking forward to the counter arguments to that dissection of the team makeup and gameplan.

The 'Yeah But's' will be full of Angst trying to spin it.

Facts are facts folks. And we all just got them all.

Quality BV.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Ok
No point arguing the point
Meanwhile another wasted year
Why is it why we can’t be better than say
12 to 13 other clubs for say 5 years?
That’s a fact.
Answers?

Keough, your Toxic argument doesn't stack up when you see how many games the Blues were ahead up until halftime in the first 10 games.

9 out of 10 we were ahead at 1/2 time.

9/10

How does that stat equate to a toxic nature within the club?

I do not disagree that in the past the Club has had major issues within the Board. But since the arrival of Cook and Voss that area does not seem to be an issue. Yes the Fwit President let his little brain get in the way of his big brain but that really has nothing to do with Coaches and Players.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

So we should just piss the rest of the year away and keep doing what we know doesn’t work?

If the game style is getting beaten constantly then change it. Other sides seem to be able to change things, but not Carlton.

He’s had 4 years, he didn’t know that we’d have the personal issues we’d have, yet he rolled out the same game style. Maybe he thinks this is the way to win?

It doesn’t matter we are ahead at half time
The score at The Final Siren ?
That’s what matters I dare say to most Carlton supporters

Most supporters I talk to are sick of the club telling us
To stick fat
We are in this together
We are looking at the rest of the year
We are basically over it
It’s rinse and repeat
It doesn’t matter what coach what list manager what head of football fitness
We cannot have sustained success
There it’s the board and the Bruce Mathieson types who are at fault

I’ll be watching the reserves today
Hopefully Wilson plays well
If he does surely he comes in for Docherty
That’s what should happen
History with this club would tell you otherwise

How does saying there's a toxic culture from above even counter the list truths that BV laid out? Thats the reality of where we are at. Can we trade/draft our way to something better? History is not on our side.

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What does it tell you? 9/10, yet we’ve won 6 games for the year.

Has anything really changed under Cook? Apparently we have the worst assistant coaches, the worst LM team and the worst HoF. What’s he done for his money?

Great post BV

The list available to Voss was constructed on the basis that the best 23 would be available most weeks
It could cope with 1 or 2 out but not 8-9 out .

Anyone sitting expecting us to be competitive missing Walsh Harry Newman JSOS Cotrell Kemp Elijah Saad Jagga you are seriously delusional . The Media has been banging on about effort - 1-2 games the effort was questionable but that happens in every team across the season . Everyone calling for Vossy head and trading out stars and rebuilding the list are not looking at the circumstances - Austin rebuilt the list last trade period - He sacrificed depth for youth and we started the season with more players under 21 than any other team in the comp.

I'm a supporter of Manchester city their manager Pep Guardiola is regarded as one of the best there has ever been in the game . Last season in a squad of 25 most of who would walk into any team in the world he lost 6-7 players through injury . The team stunk it up looked a complete shadow of the team they had been over the last 10 years he was drawing on players from under 21 squad - So what did City do ? Half through the season they spent 150 million pounds bringing in elite talent from around the world and this made them competitive for the back half of the season. Vossy doesn't have that available to him - he has to go to the under 21's and we have 17 of them all not ready.

I was pessimistic before the season started about the state of the list with our injury history this was a disaster waiting to happen .

I think of all the coaches we have seen come and go and been put under pressure Vossy has handled himself and presented himself at an impeccable level. He has tried different things - shifted things around used more players than you can poke a stick at and still protected younger players who are not ready where he could.

I have been over the years been the biggest sack the coach person around - in this instance I hope they keep Vossy and rejig around him and ask the questions of the list manager.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Yes, the board has made some very poor decisions at times Keogh but you can't bundle everyone into the same group.
The board has changed significantly over the past 30 years.
Those in power today aren't responsible for decisions made 15 years ago.

IMHO, the board seem to be doing a good job. They endorse people to make decisions and they should then stay out of it.
The football director is Greg Williams. I don't like the appointment but the board will be accountable.
The GM is Brad Lloyd and from the outside, that appears to be shaky. The board/CEO will be accountable for those decisions and rightly so.
But they are also responsible for off field performance. By any measure, that is going exceptionally well.

Let's see how the next few months play out but IMHO, the biggest test for the board will be their courage to make decisions based upon what is in the better interests of the club, and not what is necessarily popular or done to appease the masses. Or to be seen as "doing something"
Cook had the courage to talk the Geelong board into keeping Bomber Thompson. The same with Balme and Hardwick. Brisbane did the same with Chris Fagan. Sacking Buckley worked well for Collingwood but there are also several examples for the opposite
There is no perfect coach but having the courage to accept a coach is imperfect and to put strength around his weaknesses and to maximise his strengths takes foresight. If the board and administration can do that, I'll back them for it.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Des you may well be right. My argument would be that; Cook may be making poor decisions (I don't agree with that premise....) but, Cooks performance, has nothing to do with the Toxic Board argument Keogh is attempting use.

Ockham's Razor is clear and BV just succinctly explained its meaning to those willing to listen.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

If you look at a couple of events this year you know there are issues that haven’t been addressed that are culture based
On one hand players say let’s stick fat to the supporters after losing to North
Then after the Port loss the President finally fronts the media to give us the same message
Yet 4 months earlier a membership day is cancelled on the morning it’s meant to go happen
Where is “ Let’s stick fat” there
All because we lost to a team that was supposed to not win a game all year
That’s mixed messaging
If you confronted anyone at the club about this they wouldn’t give you a direct answer to the mix messaging