Braithy wrote:
but it matters little what voss wants. two rucks does not work. GWS was an outlier game, and it turns out that was the start of the GWS decline more than it was about the success and capabilities of us playing with two rucks.
two rucks only came about bcos of two things.
1) Pittonett is not capable of running out games, and plays around 60% game time which isn't enough
2) TDK was not ready. he wasn't impactful in the actual ruck contest. But, now not only is he impactful, he's a top 3 or 4 ruck in the game, and at 24 he will be the best, most dominant ruck in the league at some point.
i'm not sure about all this facts not stories bit ... your post seems riddled with unprovable theories and stories.
"we'd have won by more on sunday with 2 rucks!" how do you measure that? it's wild, old mate.
"voss clearly prefers two rucks?" again, based on what? no he doesn't, if he wants to win, he couldn't possibly. he was playing two rucks out of necessity bcos pittonet doesn't have the tank of a number 1 ruck.
Braithy, you and I will not agree on the 2 rucks. Lets at least be on the same side with the team we support.
The highlighted bit is poignant.
Vossy has gone with the 2 rucks enough times now, to the point we can ALL wait in anticipation as to which way he decides, when both are fit and firing, and we must back Vossy on his decision regardless of our bias. He knows better than you and me. You seem to dismiss what Vossy wants and accuse him of playing to lose by going with 2 rucks. That couldn't be further than the truth.
Voss selects a team every week, regardless of the injury list, to win the game. He is building team. Weaving it all together to be in unison by Finals. We are not the finished product. Picking our best 23 is bloody hard business. Our bottom 6 are starring week in week out. The 6 out of the team right now, are also really good players.
2 months ago, prior to the Adelaide game, the point I made was that you will see the 2 rucks and I shared the word around the club at the time. That's where it comes from. I've heard that regularly since at Club functions and from Carltonians close tom the inner sanctum, and, I heard it again prior to last weeks selection of Pitto.
Vossy mad a facetious comment about his decision to play 2 rucks against the GWSsaying the decsion was against the media commentary at the time re playing the 2 rucks. Vossy didn't allow outside noise to determine HIS decision. Don't be surprised this week if TDK comes in and Pitto is retained. Vossy will make it work if he does. He's not an idiot. I don't care if Pitto is "rested" or "managed" or "omitted".
Prior to TDK's breakout game vs Effendon, including the first 4 games we won, TDK was not holding marks around the ground, as some suggested, and was not kicking well at goal as the 3rd forward target, with the exception of the game against GWS. We won that game because TDK held his marks, and, kicked straight from the get go, and Pitto proved he had the mobility which "shocked" a few of his detractors, which only enhanced Vossy's belief in the 2 rucks. The following week TDK kicked 3 behinds and was given the No 1 ruck role for the last 5 minutes of the game, and we lost that game in the last 5 minutes. Shit happens.
The confidence in TDK was not as high back then as it is now, nor as high as some hoped. TDK played his worst game of the year against the Swans, then Pitto got injured. That's the obvious reason why Vossy didn't continue to see 2 rucks after that game. The other reason why Vossy likes the 2 rucks, and he has said this, is because of the threat the 3 headed monster's presence poses for the opposition. Lastly, Vossy prefers to have Pitto take on the bigger brutal rucks initially, to wear them down/ hurt them, then allow TDK to jump over them. That's what TDK said prior to this season, and what Vossy said after the win against Dees in the Final. Its not my story. They are facts stated in the public domain.
Against Geelong, TDK played his "Grand Final" against his brother. If TDK rucked on his own last week against Nankervis whilst fatigued and sore from the previous game, he would have been in trouble, but I doubt we would have lost. TDK is a developing ruckman who has strung 3 games in a row. He's too young and just breaking out to keep that sort of effort up.
Carlton is in an enviable position. We are evolving and getting better by the week. We are getting our troops back, and this Carlton team is the best running team we have ever had in my lifetime, including 1995. The present Carlton team is hungry, and capable of winning every game between now and the GF, like the 1995 team did. I'm not expecting that but ... . This team has proven we can win with TDK as the sole ruck, with Pitto as the sole ruck, and with 2 rucks. We are that good.
Lets have faith in Pitto and TDK and Vossy and the whole squad moving forward and celebrate whoever Vossy selects to play. We have to trust Vossy. There's no reason not to.
I want to enjoy the ride with you and the Blue Brethren moving forward.
I'm not sure if you go the Carlton games, but there's nothing worse than so called "Carlton fans" abusing their own players. Makes me sick, and I'm too old to get into them on my own these days. But it shouldn't be encouraged to happen. That's what the opposition are there for. Lets get behind the whole team...we are the Navy Blue Tsunami, we are the team on everyone's lips, despite Swans a couple games ahead, and we will be playing Finals for years to come ... and next year we will have another new ruckman to support, in our quest for Flag 18. That's another ongoing 'story' from earlier in the season, and for another thread.
Lets agree to disagree re 2 rucks, and back the Navy Blue juggernaut,, with one ruck or two rucks, to win us the Cup.
bondi, stop writing war peace and keep it brief old mate. i can't read all of that.
voss isn't the God you think you're worshipping here. he was a millimetre from losing his job, and in an "oh fkkkk it" moment went against the club and turned up to curnows and got pissed with the players - until that point the powers that be at good old carlton didn't allow coaches and players to hang out, get friendly and get pissed. Voss was out the door anyway, so he went and the rest is history.
it was at curnows bonfire the leaders told voss they didn't believe in his all out, balls to the wall bash the other team into submission. that the gameplan needed tweaking, they needed to run more, handball chains, spread, run and carry, than the dour possession based bullshit and then kick it long down the line.
cue the 9 game win streak.
it was great, better than great we won two finals last year, but we were comfortably outplayed by dees, and nearly lost it to sydney when the whips were cracking, as voss went back to the more contested & stoppage tactic.
in summary with two rucks, we are not very good. and our win/loss record since 2023 with two rucks confirms this. so just stop it.
if voss reverts back to the 2 rucks, and the contested, win stoppages at all costs (sending a man behind the ball into the contest etc etc) we will lose. the data backs it all up. turnover and pressure wins modern afl games, not clearance dominance.
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: If Vossy plays 2 rucks and play like you suggest in your comment, a purely contested game..., then I agree the Flag is miles away.