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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:27 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Sydney
I've no idea if EH is good enough but the profile is right; I just think we need him in addition to Dow, not instead of, because we lack midfield zip. I guess it depends where Binns and the Campo twins end up, maybe Blacres moves inside, or Hollands puts on 15 kilos... someone surely has to switch or leave before we end up with a dozen wings.

In my ideal world, we'd trade LOB for a nominal return, recruit EH or similar, and keep Dow, and still have a first round draft pick. No idea if this is realistic.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:40 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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jezzarules wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
Agree we need to keep Dow: although he needs to sharpen up his F50 entries significantly if he wants to be a consistent first 22 inclusion, letting him go would mean we need to recruit two pacy mids instead of one.

I still reckon an extra mid sized athletic forward in the Martin vein is more important than another crumbing small. I still believe C Durdin has what it takes, his season was just stuffed by injury. He and Williams will be big additions in 24. Hopefully Binns, too. Our own version of a Bailey Fritsch that doesn't choke in finals would add a much needed shot of variety to our forward play.

Elijah Hollands could be a suitable replacement for Dow because he has more of a mid-forward bias.
IE gives us similar level of coverage but perhaps more where we need it.
Might not be too different in trade value either.

I reckon there would be a significant trade value difference. One is contracted, the other isn’t. Someone is going to get Dow for virtually nothing unless we can convince him to stay somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:50 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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GC are looking to move Hollands and will have less interest than we will for Dow

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 3:27 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2129
aboynamedsue wrote:
I hope Dow stays. He means more to us than we would get for him in a trade (which would be nothing, see Setterfield trade).

If we straight out delist him, I will spew. He will be picked up as a DFA and we get no return (see Stocker). I hope we can convince Dow to stay for another year or two on the same coin. I might have a different perspective if another club is willing to trade something of value, but I just don’t see that happening. I think the most likely scenario is that another club is already in his ear (Saints?) and he’ll request a trade in the coming weeks. And we’ll do the “help the player get to his club of choice” good guy thing (again, see Setterfield).

I wouldn’t blame Dow if he wants to look at other options - he doesn’t want to spend his prime years in the VFL - but I hope we’re telling him that he has turned a corner and that we’ll be going into 2024 with a genuinely open mind about spots. If he has a big preseason, it’s not unfathomable that he could overtake Hewitt & Kennedy (both of whom I like, but we need AFL-caliber players putting pressure on them). Ed Curnow has retired. Our midfield ‘squad’ takes a hit if Dow leaves. Our game is based on clearances and that’s his strength.


I agree with you here.
Ed Curnow retiring has to impact.
Dow was very humble when interviewed after that match rd 21 or rd 20.
I like humble.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:50 am
Posts: 1221
Hard to get better than pick 50 for an uncontracted player who isn't rated in your best 30 by the coaches.

Fisher might be worth closer to pick 30 as he is contracted

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:41 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:58 pm
Posts: 154
At least Dow can play at the elite level
Hollands is struggling to make the suns team makes no sense at all getting him better to keep Dow


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:36 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 8119
GreatEx wrote:
I still reckon an extra mid sized athletic forward in the Martin vein is more important than another crumbing small. I still believe C Durdin has what it takes, his season was just stuffed by injury. He and Williams will be big additions in 24. Hopefully Binns, too. Our own version of a Bailey Fritsch that doesn't choke in finals would add a much needed shot of variety to our forward play.


I agree too.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:49 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 932
Others have said this already but we need some more speed and skill to complement our strong contested and clearance game. Williams returning should help as he ticks both boxes. Boyd is one to persist with as he’s tough but also a very nice kick. We’re a brutal team around the ball but still need to build out our transition game.


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 Post subject: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:57 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Motlop is our guy as a live wire small forward. He's 19 and has played 21 matches.

He is our guy.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:45 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6896
bluehammer wrote:
Motlop is our guy as a live wire small forward. He's 19 and has played 21 matches.

He is our guy.



i don't think he is. look around the league, and all the good small forwards have electric speed, agility and creativity.


motlop is excellent at bagging a goal if he gets his hands on it inside the arc, but not quite fast or smart enough to get enough of the ball. imo

i look at guys like cameron, rankin, papely, ginnivan, bobby, elliot, koz etc and they're such a level above.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:29 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Bluedog posted this article in Talking Recruitment, but it’s worth sticking here too-

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/09/24/ ... eliminary/

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:57 am 
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Rod McGregor
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Posts: 171
Braithy wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Motlop is our guy as a live wire small forward. He's 19 and has played 21 matches.

He is our guy.



i don't think he is. look around the league, and all the good small forwards have electric speed, agility and creativity.


motlop is excellent at bagging a goal if he gets his hands on it inside the arc, but not quite fast or smart enough to get enough of the ball. imo

i look at guys like cameron, rankin, papely, ginnivan, bobby, elliot, koz etc and they're such a level above.

I’d have Motlop ahead of Ginnivan and Hill


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:02 am 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4744
We need to recruit a medium zippy quick forward.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:37 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24678
Location: Bondi Beach
Had the perfect seats at the Gabba. $285 a seat. FMD.

4 things stood out to me about Brisbane for us to consider.

1. KPD Depth: Brissy lost KPD Adams to concussion and replaced him with KPD Payne, who was out with an ankle injury but was replaced with a more than capable KPD.

2. KPF Speed: Hipwood is the fastest 200cm forward I have ever seen. We have McKay who is also very quick. Marchbank isn't slow, but when you know where the ball will be kicked its easy for Hipwood to sprint to the hole and take a chest mark. it wasn't Hipwwods size and contested marking that got us, it was his speed to the right spot.

3. Goal kicking / marking ruck: Oscar, Lions No 1 ruck, takes marks and kicks goals as a ruckman. Neither TDK and Pitto do.

Our fastest KPDs over 20m are Gov and Young. Both un our fastest top 10 at the club. Young and Sam Durdin are our KPD reserves. We need to get Young up to speed over summer. re engineer his modus oprerandi...with agression and confidence to play on, or improve our KPD depth.

4: Small forward speed: Cameron has express speed and gets into space which gives him time and opportunity, as is Ah chee. Glad they were not kicking straight. Motlop does not have high end speed, neither does Fogarty. I think Durdin is much quicker. We need goal kicking small forwards, not solely defensive minded smalls.

We are not that far off. If Cripps, Acres, Docherty, wasn't so banged up we coulda shoulda ...well if it was at the G....I think Cerra looked pretty sore too. Maybe he copped a hit early on. Did I mention better kicking for goal wouldve helped us pinch this one.

So proud of the boys. Never gave up the fight. We need to add to that and presto.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:39 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24678
Location: Bondi Beach
Memphis Blues wrote:
Braithy wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Motlop is our guy as a live wire small forward. He's 19 and has played 21 matches.

He is our guy.



i don't think he is. look around the league, and all the good small forwards have electric speed, agility and creativity.


motlop is excellent at bagging a goal if he gets his hands on it inside the arc, but not quite fast or smart enough to get enough of the ball. imo

i look at guys like cameron, rankin, papely, ginnivan, bobby, elliot, koz etc and they're such a level above.

I’d have Motlop ahead of Ginnivan and Hill


Is Hill available? If so, get him!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:50 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21399
Location: North of the border
Drewgirl wrote:
We need to recruit a medium zippy quick forward.



I think there has been one team that is Richmond in the shorten season in the last 10 years that has won a flag where they didnt have 3 players kicking 30 goals or more

we had one Charlie
Harry needs to sort out his kicking demons
Martin needs to play 20 games plus and hit the scoreboard
Owies needs to not go missing and get ball more than 8 times a game
Cunningham needs to play 20 games and not go missing for patches and hit scoreboard
Motlop needs to improve his defense so he is selected each week
JSOS needs to kick more goals 115 games for 87 goals as mainly a half forward doesn't cut it
Fogarty needs to hit scoreboard more

To much is being left to Charlie these other forwards need to step up to the plate and provide an option so we become less predictable .

Until that happens we will not progress any further than we have this year

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:16 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3248
As most of will have, received my email from the club (Luke Sayers)

It’s been a terrific year and well done to the club. We stand for something again.

However, I challenge the commentary that our best is good enough. We found on Saturday night, in fact twice this year against the Lions, that we have work to do to be the best. Alas, we are not good enough just yet.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:59 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 1924
Braithy wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Motlop is our guy as a live wire small forward. He's 19 and has played 21 matches.

He is our guy.



i don't think he is. look around the league, and all the good small forwards have electric speed, agility and creativity.


motlop is excellent at bagging a goal if he gets his hands on it inside the arc, but not quite fast or smart enough to get enough of the ball. imo

i look at guys like cameron, rankin, papely, ginnivan, bobby, elliot, koz etc and they're such a level above.


Aside from Ginnivan and Kossie to a lesser extent, you're comparing apples with oranges.

Motlop is still a kid....


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:27 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2812
We need instinctive goal kickers. Ginnivan or even Stephenson from Norf would help. You can carry one with poor speed or defensive pressure is they kick 2 goals a week.

We need to decide if we can carry Cripps, Hewett and Kennedy and if JSOS could give a 5 minute chop out as a big bodied mid. If he can then maybe we need to think about what sort of return we’d get on Kennedy,.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:37 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4719
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
I think it’s good we’re going to the draft. It’d be easy to try to pinch a flag by trading for some old has been. It won’t set us up for long term success. We have to remember players like Doc probably only have 2-3 years left so we need to draft now to replace him in 2-3 years time. Cripps probably a little longer but he’s getting battered from pillar to post so we need to start thinking ahead in the couple of years to a big bodied midfielder.

Hollands was a bonus for us last year finding a year 1 ready-to-play winger even if we had to manage him carefully in his first season.

We do need a bit more speed to help with our transition game. Hopefully a couple of those waiting in the wings like Binns and the like can help us there.

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