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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Athorn the Wonderkid wrote:
There's been a bit of talk about our forward movements but I reckon we'll still be a heavy flooding team from defence. Last year we matched the Swans for playing like the Sydney Harbour and swamped teams where we could in defence with our midfield and sometimes half our forward line sitting behind half back flank. The games against Sydney and Adelaide where we got close enough for them to smell fear were full flood games, but then sometimes it looked as though we were trying different strategies.


I think our heavy flooding was to limit the damage and when I see heavy flooding I know we have given the game away.
I dont see flooding teaching your youngsters much either and its a bit like playing Zone in basketball....you have acknowledged the fact you cant go man on man with the other team because you dont have faith in the talent of your players. I hope Denis lets the young blood run free and we have enough faith in our own abilities to kick a winning score......
Flooding is a last resort method to save games IMO and we should be embracing the attacking style of play that good Carlton teams were known for...you might get a few beltings early on but your young players develop better skills and know how from playing attacking footy rather than standing like cows in a paddock just filling up space in the backline...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:40 pm 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Athorn the Wonderkid wrote:
There's been a bit of talk about our forward movements but I reckon we'll still be a heavy flooding team from defence. Last year we matched the Swans for playing like the Sydney Harbour and swamped teams where we could in defence with our midfield and sometimes half our forward line sitting behind half back flank. The games against Sydney and Adelaide where we got close enough for them to smell fear were full flood games, but then sometimes it looked as though we were trying different strategies.


I think our heavy flooding was to limit the damage and when I see heavy flooding I know we have given the game away.
I dont see flooding teaching your youngsters much either and its a bit like playing Zone in basketball....you have acknowledged the fact you cant go man on man with the other team because you dont have faith in the talent of your players. I hope Denis lets the young blood run free and we have enough faith in our own abilities to kick a winning score......
Flooding is a last resort method to save games IMO and we should be embracing the attacking style of play that good Carlton teams were known for...you might get a few beltings early on but your young players develop better skills and know how from playing attacking footy rather than standing like cows in a paddock just filling up space in the backline...


Yeah yeah I agree and I don't like it as a strategy

but I still reckon we'll use it.

Even when the Blues were flying early 2005 Pagan would use the flood at times. The Wiz Cup wins against the Bulldogs and Demons each had pretty full floods as defensive tactics to try to stop runs of goals. And when we were shockers like against St Kilda we still tried it but if your defence is running around without a clue and they can win the ball and find space at 50 metres its pretty easy to slam them home.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:45 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
IMHO, The game is evolving past having a set "gameplan" or philosophy.
Teams needs to counter changes in tempo and tactics during a game, not when the review is completed by the coaches.
Sydney are the trendsetters in this regard but teams will be following their thought processes, not their gameplan.
Sydney are viewed as a high possession side but if you view their stats, they were actually the 14th ranked team in the AFL for possessions.
They probably average the highest contested mark per mark ratio and the most contested possessions per possession.
In other words, they are a low possession, contested football side.

Where Sydney excel is their ability to beat the flood. Hence they would probably have the best record against Brisbane in the AFL.
It goes a long way toward explaining their defeating the Saints in the finals.
In short, they control the tempo of the game and refuse to kick to flooded zones. If the fast break is on, Sydney can move the ball as well as any.
If not, they control the ball at all costs.
That appears to be what we are trying to achieve.
The biggest problems IMO are-

a. We dont have enough senior players capable of dictating the tempo

b. Pagan has actively tried to turn the players into non creative, robotic type players who instinctively follow his credo completely. The ability to create and improvise was taken away from the players the day he walked in to the club.

Training however appears to indicate a willingness to control the ball until we reach the centre of the ground. For the first time in 3 years drills are encompassing and encouraging lateral movement of the ball. Drills are specifically designed to facilitate changing of direction, chipping to the on coming lead and leading wide to the wings.

We wont be playing a Sydney type gameplan as such, if anything our game style will go further away from theirs statistically.
What we will see is an increase in chip passing, less kicking to contests and a bit more freedom for the players to create.
We will become less predictable structurally and our midfield rotation will increase substantially.

The rule changes implemented by the AFL will suit running teams attempting to outrun the flood. That's where I see us heading this year.
The players will take quite a bit of time to adapt and that is obvious when any match simulation takes place.
But we will play exciting footy. The kids will love this style of game and players with natural flair like Hartlett, Fisher, Bower, Carlos and Scotland will show out.



BV are you suggesting a clarkson style of chipping game or a williams , sheedy style of possession game- What are your thoughts as you get to training

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:48 pm 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Athorn the Wonderkid wrote:
There's been a bit of talk about our forward movements but I reckon we'll still be a heavy flooding team from defence. Last year we matched the Swans for playing like the Sydney Harbour and swamped teams where we could in defence with our midfield and sometimes half our forward line sitting behind half back flank. The games against Sydney and Adelaide where we got close enough for them to smell fear were full flood games, but then sometimes it looked as though we were trying different strategies.


I think our heavy flooding was to limit the damage and when I see heavy flooding I know we have given the game away.
I dont see flooding teaching your youngsters much either and its a bit like playing Zone in basketball....you have acknowledged the fact you cant go man on man with the other team because you dont have faith in the talent of your players. I hope Denis lets the young blood run free and we have enough faith in our own abilities to kick a winning score......
Flooding is a last resort method to save games IMO and we should be embracing the attacking style of play that good Carlton teams were known for...you might get a few beltings early on but your young players develop better skills and know how from playing attacking footy rather than standing like cows in a paddock just filling up space in the backline...


Yeah yeah I agree and I don't like it as a strategy

but I still reckon we'll use it.

Even when the Blues were flying early 2005 Pagan would use the flood at times. The Wiz Cup wins against the Bulldogs and Demons each had pretty full floods as defensive tactics to try to stop runs of goals. And when we were shockers like against St Kilda we still tried it but if your defence is running around without a clue and they can win the ball and find space at 50 metres its pretty easy to slam them home.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:52 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Blue Vain wrote:
What we will see is an increase in chip passing, less kicking to contests and a bit more freedom for the players to create.

Shit, that scares me considering our lack of poise & decision making the last few years which resulted in shocking disposal.

Blue Vain wrote:
But we will play exciting footy. The kids will love this style of game and players with natural flair like Hartlett, Fisher, Bower, Carlos and Scotland will show out.

WOOOOOOOO!!! ...styyyyling & profiiiiiling!!! :-D

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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Sydney Blue wrote:
BV are you suggesting a clarkson style of chipping game or a williams , sheedy style of possession game- What are your thoughts as you get to training


I'm not really suggesting either.
What I suspect is we will see is more of a willingness to retain possession.
Previously our players didnt have the confidence in themselves or the confidence from the coach to create options other than "kick it down the line".
I suspect we'll see more running with the ball, more lateral movement of the ball and a willingness to "lead up" and short pass 15/20 metres to the on coming player.
Previously Pagan wanted to get the ball forward as quickly as possible.
I suspect we will see more emphasis on having possession forward on the centre before kicking to contests.
If that takes longer, so be it.

But dont think we will see a big change in numbers, we will still be one of the lowest possession sides. I just believe our game will become slightly less based on contests which with a young side, is smart.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
BV are you suggesting a clarkson style of chipping game or a williams , sheedy style of possession game- What are your thoughts as you get to training


I'm not really suggesting either.
What I suspect is we will see is more of a willingness to retain possession.
Previously our players didnt have the confidence in themselves or the confidence from the coach to create options other than "kick it down the line".
I suspect we'll see more running with the ball, more lateral movement of the ball and a willingness to "lead up" and short pass 15/20 metres to the on coming player.
Previously Pagan wanted to get the ball forward as quickly as possible.
I suspect we will see more emphasis on having possession forward on the centre before kicking to contests.
If that takes longer, so be it.

But dont think we will see a big change in numbers, we will still be one of the lowest possession sides. I just believe our game will become slightly less based on contests which with a young side, is smart.


That sounds positive - particulary when we have a leading forwards like Fev

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:50 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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sounds similar to how we played the whizzfizz last year - see ghost articles re swamp! 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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Hey Danny.
Good to hear from you son. :-D




( Why would I go back and read your articles, I didnt read the shit when you wrote it) :wink:

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 Post subject: Blue Vain
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Good stuff BlueVain.Sounds like you have really nutted it out.With regard to Swans,you hit the nail on the head when you mention tempo.That was the key to the Swans for sure.There game was not that dissimilar to ours last year.Where we stuffed up was the insistance in rushing the ball forward at any cost.How many times did you see us run the ball through the guts last year only to give it up with an idiotic long bomb to nowhere.Slow it down,pick your target,and release the pill when you want.Patience boys.Think about it.Our game was not vastly differant to the Swans,except we gave the ball up time and time again in that crucial 40 metres out from goal zone.Brain dead footy for mine.Glad to hear we are at least attempting to redress the issue.

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