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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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WE must counter the strengths of the opposition week in week out.

Every team has its differences and strengths we must curtail.

Looking at Richmond, another Finals contender we are up against, the paper this morning reports that the 2 new recruits Taranto and Hopper are the contested bulls in their midfield and looking good. We know our contested bulls can match and beat them, as they did against the GWS in 2022.

It looks like Dustin is finally fit and will play a role using his power in congestion.

We shouldn't focus on one player in a team game, but Martin is a proven match winner, and needs to be stopped kicking or influencing goals.

In the past Plowman has taken on Martin in the forwardline, and whilst the weight looks right, Martin does look too fast for Plowman.

I'm guessing someone like Marchbank or McGovern would take on Martin. IMO, Martin would be too big and strong for Docherty, Williams, Saad or Boyd.

Curious.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/afl-preseason-2023-stay-up-to-date-with-the-latest-news/news-story/4d143886a7888cff15a6d672fcffdfa9

Quote:
Richmond superstar Dustin Martin is ready to bounce back to his best after two injury-ravaged years, according to teammate Liam Baker.

The three-time Norm Smith Medalist is on the verge of completing a full pre-season and looks set to spend more time forward after another impressive showing in match simulation on Thursday.

New recruits Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper were standouts in the middle in the 20-minute scratch match and look set to lead the engine room in 2023, allowing Martin to play closer to goal.

Martin looked in supreme physical condition and showcased his trademark power in congestion at Punt Rd after two years marred by a serious kidney injury and repeated hamstring problems.


Quote:
Martin averaged the fifth-most centre bounce attendances per game for the Tigers last year but the moves to bring in Taranto and Hopper saw Martin spend more time forward on Thursday where he will likely join forces with Jack Riewoldt and Tom Lynch, who is on light duties with a foot issue

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:59 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
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keogh wrote:
Better depth
Still too much left to too few
Tom Atkins is a good example
Became a crucial inside mid late in games
Plus allowed the Cats to keep Dangerfield on ice for The Finals


This is my concern. We had players have career best seasons and still couldn’t bridge the gap and make the eight. How do we find the improvement?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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All of what has been said so far I agree with.

I'll add this though: Anything but Finals this year is unacceptable. We simply MUST play finals, no excuses.

I'd even go so far as to say the aim should be to push for (if not get) top 4....

BUT FINALS and nothing less!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:39 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
All of what has been said so far I agree with.

I'll add this though: Anything but Finals this year is unacceptable. We simply MUST play finals, no excuses.

I'd even go so far as to say the aim should be to push for (if not get) top 4....

BUT FINALS and nothing less!


Dunno about that . Reckon thats what got us in the shit last year . We counted our chickens before they hatched . One week at a time for mine . No way should we be getting ahead of ourselves .

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:38 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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DesEnglish wrote:
keogh wrote:
Better depth
Still too much left to too few
Tom Atkins is a good example
Became a crucial inside mid late in games
Plus allowed the Cats to keep Dangerfield on ice for The Finals


This is my concern. We had players have career best seasons and still couldn’t bridge the gap and make the eight. How do we find the improvement?

Versatility will be the key. Nothing outlandish, just the subtle changes that can put a couple of scores on the board and then Keyser Söze before the opposition know what happened.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:43 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Plowman is the only true defensive small to medium defender. Newman is next best but I have little confidence to see him match up against, say a Martin.

I wouldn’t mind seeing what Marchbank can do against a Martin but he won’t be a match for say an Elliott. Marchbank is more the 3rd tall defender.

Small showdown defender is our Achilles = Plowman needs to play.

Ps. I really, really felt Stocker could have been developed for this role.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:11 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
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Mickstar wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
All of what has been said so far I agree with.

I'll add this though: Anything but Finals this year is unacceptable. We simply MUST play finals, no excuses.

I'd even go so far as to say the aim should be to push for (if not get) top 4....

BUT FINALS and nothing less!


Dunno about that . Reckon thats what got us in the shit last year . We counted our chickens before they hatched . One week at a time for mine . No way should we be getting ahead of ourselves .


If you dont aim high, you will likely just stagnate and remain an average football team at best.

I understand what your saying about getting ahead of ourselves, however thats probably more due to the existence of mental fragility within members of the team. Its been a major issue for a long time.

However, I think most would agree we have the core ingredients required to play finals football. Last Year I think to some degree we were not quite ready and we simply did not deserve to play finals.

But that is no longer acceptable. Again we simply must play finals - NO EXCUSES!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:06 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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There’s an air of entitlement or expectation about us making the finals, but let me flip that around and ask - why will we be better in 2023 than 2022?

Where is the improvement going to come from? Have we improved our list from last year?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:42 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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We've improved on the wings, and if availability improves then we improve by default.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:32 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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GreatEx wrote:
We've improved on the wings
Acres for Newnes is a minor upgrade, but I’m not counting on Hollands or Binns making an impact in season one.

GreatEx wrote:
if availability improves then we improve by default.
There’s every chance we’ll have the same or worse run with injuries in 2023. We already have three LTIs (one a major loss) and it’s only January.

I’m not being negative for the sake of it, but I don’t share the popular view that a spot in the finals is ours to lose. I reckon we need to improve quite a bit and I’m not sure where the improvement is coming from in the short term.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:17 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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aboynamedsue wrote:
There’s an air of entitlement or expectation about us making the finals, but let me flip that around and ask - why will we be better in 2023 than 2022?

Where is the improvement going to come from? Have we improved our list from last year?


Hopefully the improvement will come from between there ears " Sue ".

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:23 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Mickstar wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
There’s an air of entitlement or expectation about us making the finals, but let me flip that around and ask - why will we be better in 2023 than 2022?

Where is the improvement going to come from? Have we improved our list from last year?


Hopefully the improvement will come from between there ears " Sue ".



P S ...............very sobering words " Sue ".

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:59 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
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aboynamedsue wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
We've improved on the wings
Acres for Newnes is a minor upgrade.


I'm more confident that Acres will provide a significant upgrade.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:32 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Stefchook wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
We've improved on the wings
Acres for Newnes is a minor upgrade.


I'm more confident that Acres will provide a significant upgrade.


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 2=C&type=A

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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aboynamedsue wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
We've improved on the wings
Acres for Newnes is a minor upgrade.


I'm more confident that Acres will provide a significant upgrade.


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 2=C&type=A


I understand your concern Sue but Acres is at his peak and has just come off a career best year whilst Newnes was at the end.

Let’s look at them now rather than over the totality of their careers thus far.

Acres 2022 averages over 20 games are…

14.3 kicks
7.3 handballs
21.7 disposals
5.8 marks
2.7 tackles
4.2 inside 50s

Newnes 2022 averages over 16 games are…

9.1 kicks
5.3 handballs
14.4 disposals
4.1 marks
1.9 tackles
2.4 inside 50s


That’s…

57% more kicks
38% more handballs
51% more disposals
41% more marks
42% more tackles
75% more inside 50s


We don’t know how he’ll fit in to a new game plan and a new team but based on recent performance he’s a serious upgrade and I reckon a really astute piece of recruiting for a future 3rd round pick which could be 54 or lower.. :smile:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:12 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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GWS wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
We've improved on the wings
Acres for Newnes is a minor upgrade.


I'm more confident that Acres will provide a significant upgrade.


https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 2=C&type=A


I understand your concern Sue but Acres is at his peak and has just come off a career best year whilst Newnes was at the end.

Let’s look at them now rather than over the totality of their careers thus far.

Acres 2022 averages over 20 games are…

14.3 kicks
7.3 handballs
21.7 disposals
5.8 marks
2.7 tackles
4.2 inside 50s

Newnes 2022 averages over 16 games are…

9.1 kicks
5.3 handballs
14.4 disposals
4.1 marks
1.9 tackles
2.4 inside 50s


That’s…

57% more kicks
38% more handballs
51% more disposals
41% more marks
42% more tackles
75% more inside 50s


We don’t know how he’ll fit in to a new game plan and a new team but based on recent performance he’s a serious upgrade and I reckon a really astute piece of recruiting for a future 3rd round pick which could be 54 or lower.. :smile:


Thanks GWS. Just to be clear - I’m not unhappy that we got Acres. In fact, I think it was a fairly astute bit of recruiting. Acres is the same age that Newnes was when he came to Carlton. Newnes was good for us and I expect Acres will be too, probably a bit better.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:13 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Mickstar wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
There’s an air of entitlement or expectation about us making the finals, but let me flip that around and ask - why will we be better in 2023 than 2022?

Where is the improvement going to come from? Have we improved our list from last year?


Hopefully the improvement will come from between their ears " Sue ".


:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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The improvement will come from players like tdK, Fisher, Young, CDurdin, JSoS, Motlop, O’Brien and others developing again. Better years (injuries) from Williams, Martin, Marchbank, Cuningham, Dow, etc. Youngsters such as Carroll, Philp, Boyd, Holland’s, etc. pushing for games.
The boys playing under Voss for another year and developing the overall plan.
We have so much growth within to come.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:45 am 
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Craig Bradley
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SurreyBlue wrote:
Plowman is the only true defensive small to medium defender. Newman is next best but I have little confidence to see him match up against, say a Martin.

I wouldn’t mind seeing what Marchbank can do against a Martin but he won’t be a match for say an Elliott. Marchbank is more the 3rd tall defender.

Small showdown defender is our Achilles = Plowman needs to play.

Ps. I really, really felt Stocker could have been developed for this role.

Y'know Surrey I'm not too concerned about what might have been with Stocker.

Because, bottom line,IMO he really really didn't want to play........for Carlton.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:29 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Posts: 6314
Location: Bendigo
murraycray wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Plowman is the only true defensive small to medium defender. Newman is next best but I have little confidence to see him match up against, say a Martin.

I wouldn’t mind seeing what Marchbank can do against a Martin but he won’t be a match for say an Elliott. Marchbank is more the 3rd tall defender.

Small showdown defender is our Achilles = Plowman needs to play.

Ps. I really, really felt Stocker could have been developed for this role.

Y'know Surrey I'm not too concerned about what might have been with Stocker.

Because, bottom line,IMO he really really didn't want to play........for Carlton.

I’m with you, murray. Stocker has painted himself a picture of his life’s journey and anything that doesn’t EXACTLY match that image is dogshit.

Back pocket for Carlton wasn’t in that image & his personality type was/is too steadfast & too impatient to see the learning opportunity as anything other than personal sacrifice.

Good luck to him (particularly as he reconciles Lyon’s comments about him as a Carlton player), and to them with trying to deal with him.

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