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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:40 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 4623
Paddycripps wrote:
Hopefully Voss & Co are scrutinising the Swans Pies game and will implement the Swans template to beat Pies.
They suffocated the Pies' dangerous forwards weapons Mihocek and Elliot.
And set up really well to stiffle the Pies' rebound.
The Pies' game plan is brilliant because it is perfectly tailored to their personnel.
While they have some fine players in there they do not have one of the best midfields and don't rely on clearances as a strength.
They also don't have absolute stand out key forwards, with the small Elliot their best forward.
Their strength is their defense.
So McRae has built a very shrewd game plan where they load the backline creating an incredibly dense cluster of Collingwood players making it really hard for the opposition to score.
As a consequence they are always in games.
While they lost yesterday the reality is they were still in the game late in the match despite having only kicked 4 goals.
So the defensive game style keeps them in games.
That's why they have won so many tight games this year often with their key onballers not getting high possessions.
Then when they get possession of the ball they run forward of the play with incredible speed.
The game winning goal against Essendon** was amazing. Yes Ess didn't set up well to defend the transition but regardless the Pies' dare and speed was incredible.
This forward game style of rebounding with electric speed and dare allows their moderately tooled forwards to impact on the game.
This overall game plan is all about maximising their strength (defense) and allowing the lesser parts of their game to shine.
That's why I really worry about this weekend's game.
Even if we do turn up mentally I worry we just aren't that well organised yet as a team (the last 2 mins the other night is all the evidence you need). Voss & Co have their work cut out trying to implement a game style that will a. allow us to kick a game winning score, and b. stop the Pies' rebound.
Part of our problem this year is our strength (Harry and Charlie) is also our achilles heel as we don't have enough avenues to goal. That's why it was good to see Martin hit the scoreboard last weekend. Reality is Durdin and Motlop are very inexperienced small forwards and let's be honest Owies is slow for a small forward. And JSOS keeps getting thrown all over the side it must be hard for him to impact as a forward when he doesn't know if he is to play forward or ruck or even down back as he was late last weekend or even if he is going to be in the 22.
And then there is the ruck. The Pies as good as they have been this year are not one of the best clearance sides but our rucks are all over the shop. Hasn't helped that Voss keeps chopping and changing the rucks.
To win this weekend we will need to ...
- hopefully perform better in the ruck than we have been to hopefully allow Cripps etc to win some vital clearances from the centre
- this then allows Harry and Charlie the best chance to hit the scoreboard
- when the ball is in our F50 we have to set up so well to stop the Pies' inevitable frantic rebound
- and part of this will be finding a way to stop Mihocek and Elliot

In 2023 Voss will need to find other ways for us to score and Motlop and Durdin getting more experience will help
But this coming weekend we really are going to need Harry and Charlie to have good days I reckon
Because once the Pies rebound I really worry

Reality is when Harry and Charlie have good days we win.
When they don't we tend to lose.

Key will be seeing how Syd suffocated the Pies' forwards but I worry the narrow SCG helped Syd achieve this
The wider expanses of the G will be harder to defend
Was it a positional thing the Swans did? They seemed to be able to cut the Pies' rebound off at the knees better than any side has done for 11 weeks
If it is a positional masterstroke by Longmire then hopefully we can replicate that
I think our wings ability to rush back and defend is going to be massive
Cottrell becomes vital, as does the flawed LOB
We are simply going to have to be so switched on to defend once the Pies defenders get the ball in their grubby hands

Reality is even if we get a lead going into the 4th the Pies will take the game on running with dare and going through the corridor.
Will our players be able to hold their nerve better than they did last weekend?
Good post PC...
But the SCG is wider (not narrower) and shorter.
This made the Swans task to block the middle harder and the ability for the Pies to get the ball forward quickly even easier.... and the Swans still stifled them...
They did well and hope we were watching...
Moore needs to be accountable and Sidebottom and JDaicos outright tagged...

If Moore has a man we have to make sure Quaynor is not orchestrated as a 'loose' man....

Beyond that I can't see where they get drive to get it to Mihocek or Elliot... Who are only dangerous with supply

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:44 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14938
CK95 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
talk of playing Williams



I am a Williams fan but that would be crazy.

It would be madness and reeks of desperation.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:53 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 374
ferals like to run from defence this is where there attack starts ,so 1 no long bombs into f50 (unless ball lands in goal square), 2 forwards need to tackle best ever ,3 need to shift ' mark of the year man" away from helping moore . 4 i want to see harry v moore 1v1 5 defense are we smart enough to let Gov play intercepting mark game. inclusions forget the names cerra/williams if there not 100%, Dow to play on nick daicos and maybe hayes for his hardness and his fit (playing for there career)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
kezza wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
talk of playing Williams



I am a Williams fan but that would be crazy.

It would be madness and reeks of desperation.


Not these days. He has been built up now for 3-4 weeks to be ready to play. He is a genuine top end player and he fills a role we need filling. Marchbank came back after so long out and performed well.

If they feel he is right I have no issue with it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:26 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 6363
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
VFL team are 8th and need to win to make the finals also.

I don't think playing Williams as the injury sub helps his preparation for finals - especially if there's no game next week for the 2s. He's either fit enough to play a full game (and history says that's unlikely), or he plays a full game in the twos.

:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:45 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
FarmerBlue wrote:
kezza wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
talk of playing Williams



I am a Williams fan but that would be crazy.

It would be madness and reeks of desperation.


Not these days. He has been built up now for 3-4 weeks to be ready to play. He is a genuine top end player and he fills a role we need filling. Marchbank came back after so long out and performed well.

If they feel he is right I have no issue with it.



If he's ready to roll, play him.

He's been running for 7 weeks now.
Started running the week of the Saints game.

I do recall him having his achilles kicked against Pies in the first quarter 2 years ago and that didnt end well for us.

What's more important? Playing Williams to win this week or saving Williams for Finals?
No one knows who the med suyb will replace, but we know we have a med sub.

Play Williams...give us a bit more zip from the backline with Doc in the middle

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:47 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
billc3 wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Hopefully Voss & Co are scrutinising the Swans Pies game and will implement the Swans template to beat Pies.
They suffocated the Pies' dangerous forwards weapons Mihocek and Elliot.
And set up really well to stiffle the Pies' rebound.
The Pies' game plan is brilliant because it is perfectly tailored to their personnel.
While they have some fine players in there they do not have one of the best midfields and don't rely on clearances as a strength.
They also don't have absolute stand out key forwards, with the small Elliot their best forward.
Their strength is their defense.
So McRae has built a very shrewd game plan where they load the backline creating an incredibly dense cluster of Collingwood players making it really hard for the opposition to score.
As a consequence they are always in games.
While they lost yesterday the reality is they were still in the game late in the match despite having only kicked 4 goals.
So the defensive game style keeps them in games.
That's why they have won so many tight games this year often with their key onballers not getting high possessions.
Then when they get possession of the ball they run forward of the play with incredible speed.
The game winning goal against Essendon*** was amazing. Yes Ess didn't set up well to defend the transition but regardless the Pies' dare and speed was incredible.
This forward game style of rebounding with electric speed and dare allows their moderately tooled forwards to impact on the game.
This overall game plan is all about maximising their strength (defense) and allowing the lesser parts of their game to shine.
That's why I really worry about this weekend's game.
Even if we do turn up mentally I worry we just aren't that well organised yet as a team (the last 2 mins the other night is all the evidence you need). Voss & Co have their work cut out trying to implement a game style that will a. allow us to kick a game winning score, and b. stop the Pies' rebound.
Part of our problem this year is our strength (Harry and Charlie) is also our achilles heel as we don't have enough avenues to goal. That's why it was good to see Martin hit the scoreboard last weekend. Reality is Durdin and Motlop are very inexperienced small forwards and let's be honest Owies is slow for a small forward. And JSOS keeps getting thrown all over the side it must be hard for him to impact as a forward when he doesn't know if he is to play forward or ruck or even down back as he was late last weekend or even if he is going to be in the 22.
And then there is the ruck. The Pies as good as they have been this year are not one of the best clearance sides but our rucks are all over the shop. Hasn't helped that Voss keeps chopping and changing the rucks.
To win this weekend we will need to ...
- hopefully perform better in the ruck than we have been to hopefully allow Cripps etc to win some vital clearances from the centre
- this then allows Harry and Charlie the best chance to hit the scoreboard
- when the ball is in our F50 we have to set up so well to stop the Pies' inevitable frantic rebound
- and part of this will be finding a way to stop Mihocek and Elliot

In 2023 Voss will need to find other ways for us to score and Motlop and Durdin getting more experience will help
But this coming weekend we really are going to need Harry and Charlie to have good days I reckon
Because once the Pies rebound I really worry

Reality is when Harry and Charlie have good days we win.
When they don't we tend to lose.

Key will be seeing how Syd suffocated the Pies' forwards but I worry the narrow SCG helped Syd achieve this
The wider expanses of the G will be harder to defend
Was it a positional thing the Swans did? They seemed to be able to cut the Pies' rebound off at the knees better than any side has done for 11 weeks
If it is a positional masterstroke by Longmire then hopefully we can replicate that
I think our wings ability to rush back and defend is going to be massive
Cottrell becomes vital, as does the flawed LOB
We are simply going to have to be so switched on to defend once the Pies defenders get the ball in their grubby hands

Reality is even if we get a lead going into the 4th the Pies will take the game on running with dare and going through the corridor.
Will our players be able to hold their nerve better than they did last weekend?
Good post PC...
But the SCG is wider (not narrower) and shorter.
This made the Swans task to block the middle harder and the ability for the Pies to get the ball forward quickly even easier.... and the Swans still stifled them...
They did well and hope we were watching...
Moore needs to be accountable and Sidebottom and JDaicos outright tagged...

If Moore has a man we have to make sure Quaynor is not orchestrated as a 'loose' man....

Beyond that I can't see where they get drive to get it to Mihocek or Elliot... Who are only dangerous with supply

Go Blues


Wow I had no idea.
Must be the TV camera angle that has fooled me all these years.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:49 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:06 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Melbourne
I just cant see them dropping Stocker. I thought Saturday was one of his better games for the club and he has the competitive edge we lack. Newnes was just holding on before that game and after that display, he must go. So for me Newnes out/Cerra in. As for Williams, I cant see someone missing two months and then coming back in to play a game of this pressure. He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before he got injured. I agree we need more run out of the backline and there is a spot for Williams, but not this week.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:51 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Cuningham, well @#$%&! me


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:59 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
I can understand the allure of playing Williams.

If the last 2 mins the other night told us anything (other than we have a complete lack of leadership) it is that skill and experience are important in big games.

Would I play him? Honestly I don't know.
If Russell swears he is 100% physically ready then that is first box ticked.
But I worry he will struggle with Collingwood's manic pressure. To miss so much footy then be thrown into a shit storm on field will be a big ask.

Voss tends to like swinging the axe and likes experience though. So don't be totally surprised if Zac gets a gig.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:00 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Voss is also pretty unforgiving it would appear.
I'd be nervous if my name is either Newnes or Owies.
Clutch is going to be massive this weekend.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2819
Paddycripps wrote:
I can understand the allure of playing Williams.

If the last 2 mins the other night told us anything (other than we have a complete lack of leadership) it is that skill and experience are important in big games.

Would I play him? Honestly I don't know.
If Russell swears he is 100% physically ready then that is first box ticked.
But I worry he will struggle with Collingwood's manic pressure. To miss so much footy then be thrown into a shit storm on field will be a big ask.

Voss tends to like swinging the axe and likes experience though. So don't be totally surprised if Zac gets a gig.


He’s played big games before and excelled. That’s more than you can say for the majority of our list


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:16 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
billc3 wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Hopefully Voss & Co are scrutinising the Swans Pies game and will implement the Swans template to beat Pies.
They suffocated the Pies' dangerous forwards weapons Mihocek and Elliot.
And set up really well to stiffle the Pies' rebound.
The Pies' game plan is brilliant because it is perfectly tailored to their personnel.
While they have some fine players in there they do not have one of the best midfields and don't rely on clearances as a strength.
They also don't have absolute stand out key forwards, with the small Elliot their best forward.
Their strength is their defense.
So McRae has built a very shrewd game plan where they load the backline creating an incredibly dense cluster of Collingwood players making it really hard for the opposition to score.
As a consequence they are always in games.
While they lost yesterday the reality is they were still in the game late in the match despite having only kicked 4 goals.
So the defensive game style keeps them in games.
That's why they have won so many tight games this year often with their key onballers not getting high possessions.
Then when they get possession of the ball they run forward of the play with incredible speed.
The game winning goal against Essendon*** was amazing. Yes Ess didn't set up well to defend the transition but regardless the Pies' dare and speed was incredible.
This forward game style of rebounding with electric speed and dare allows their moderately tooled forwards to impact on the game.
This overall game plan is all about maximising their strength (defense) and allowing the lesser parts of their game to shine.
That's why I really worry about this weekend's game.
Even if we do turn up mentally I worry we just aren't that well organised yet as a team (the last 2 mins the other night is all the evidence you need). Voss & Co have their work cut out trying to implement a game style that will a. allow us to kick a game winning score, and b. stop the Pies' rebound.
Part of our problem this year is our strength (Harry and Charlie) is also our achilles heel as we don't have enough avenues to goal. That's why it was good to see Martin hit the scoreboard last weekend. Reality is Durdin and Motlop are very inexperienced small forwards and let's be honest Owies is slow for a small forward. And JSOS keeps getting thrown all over the side it must be hard for him to impact as a forward when he doesn't know if he is to play forward or ruck or even down back as he was late last weekend or even if he is going to be in the 22.
And then there is the ruck. The Pies as good as they have been this year are not one of the best clearance sides but our rucks are all over the shop. Hasn't helped that Voss keeps chopping and changing the rucks.
To win this weekend we will need to ...
- hopefully perform better in the ruck than we have been to hopefully allow Cripps etc to win some vital clearances from the centre
- this then allows Harry and Charlie the best chance to hit the scoreboard
- when the ball is in our F50 we have to set up so well to stop the Pies' inevitable frantic rebound
- and part of this will be finding a way to stop Mihocek and Elliot

In 2023 Voss will need to find other ways for us to score and Motlop and Durdin getting more experience will help
But this coming weekend we really are going to need Harry and Charlie to have good days I reckon
Because once the Pies rebound I really worry

Reality is when Harry and Charlie have good days we win.
When they don't we tend to lose.

Key will be seeing how Syd suffocated the Pies' forwards but I worry the narrow SCG helped Syd achieve this
The wider expanses of the G will be harder to defend
Was it a positional thing the Swans did? They seemed to be able to cut the Pies' rebound off at the knees better than any side has done for 11 weeks
If it is a positional masterstroke by Longmire then hopefully we can replicate that
I think our wings ability to rush back and defend is going to be massive
Cottrell becomes vital, as does the flawed LOB
We are simply going to have to be so switched on to defend once the Pies defenders get the ball in their grubby hands

Reality is even if we get a lead going into the 4th the Pies will take the game on running with dare and going through the corridor.
Will our players be able to hold their nerve better than they did last weekend?
Good post PC...
But the SCG is wider (not narrower) and shorter.
This made the Swans task to block the middle harder and the ability for the Pies to get the ball forward quickly even easier.... and the Swans still stifled them...
They did well and hope we were watching...
Moore needs to be accountable and Sidebottom and JDaicos outright tagged...

If Moore has a man we have to make sure Quaynor is not orchestrated as a 'loose' man....

Beyond that I can't see where they get drive to get it to Mihocek or Elliot... Who are only dangerous with supply

Go Blues


Great posts. Thanks.
Love the summary of Pies game plan Paddy.
Better than reading the bias scribes, who don't watch the whole game because they are writing notes or spruiking their self importance to someone who doesn't care....Robbo?...or only watch part games on the reds.

MCG is 5m wider and 5m longer than SCG.
Similar shape nowadays. Not so prior to 2007 when they had an extra 10 rows of seats.

Voss hasnt been chopping and changing rucks. That's a bit of an exaggeration.

Pitto is our first ruck. He rucked till till injured against Freo in round 6.
TDK took over first ruck from round 7 till Pitto's return against Geelong in round 17
Pitto was managed in round 20 against Brizzy because he had a cold/flu that week.
TDK was dropped after his effort vs Brisbane.
Pitto is back a week later to replace TDK.
SOS has been 2nd ruck when the 2 rucks are not playing...he is too small vs Cameron and Cox

Grundy was missing for Pies in our earlier encounter.
Cameron & Coz smashed TDK & SOS.
Pitto will be a huge upgrade in the ruck for us.

Crisp & Adams had their best contested game for the season.

Henry & Lipinski got off the chain in the last before we staged our comeback. Elliot didn't play.
Sidey was quiet but had a good 3rd quarter, but Pies set the tone from the outset.
DeGoey was too strong for Plowman and around the ball given too much space.

We have to go ape shit and animal at the contest with a view to hurt them in this game of attrition.
Play a similar close checking style as we did vs Dees for 4 quarters.
If we do, we can win this by 5 goals.

Lets hope Ginnivan doesn't play, and they continue to miss Adams.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 6047
If you believe in turning points in a season, look no further than the last time we played this mob.

Round 11, May 29, we are 8-2 going into the game. Weitering injures his shoulder in the first quarter. We/he haven’t been the same since.

Obviously there’s a number of other factors, but that was the moment where the “anything could happen this season” feeling around the club shifted to a “we just need to hold on” vibe.

We’ve won 4 out of 11 games since.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:51 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 40291
Location: seaside
Paddycripps wrote:
Voss is also pretty unforgiving it would appear.
I'd be nervous if my name is either Newnes or Owies.
Clutch is going to be massive this weekend.




Yes….

i agree with this Paddy…and i like it…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 1946
aboynamedsue wrote:
If you believe in turning points in a season, look no further than the last time we played this mob.

Round 11, May 29, we are 8-2 going into the game. Weitering injures his shoulder in the first quarter. We/he haven’t been the same since.

Obviously there’s a number of other factors, but that was the moment where the “anything could happen this season” feeling around the club shifted to a “we just need to hold on” vibe.

We’ve won 4 out of 11 games since.


Time to come full circle on Sunday then!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:58 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2742
I think if we play like we did against the Demons, we are much better than them and should win.
We didn’t come to play the last time we played them.
We need to take them seriously and hopefully put on a tag or two like Sydney did.
It will be really great to make finals and hopefully win a final in terms of our experience.
Having said that, I’m not in the camp that the year is a failure if we don’t make it. I’d think of it more as missed opportunity and I would hope that burns in the players guts all through summer, like it did for the Demons after 2020 when they also just missed out on finals.
We have made great strides, played in huge games and if we bring max effort, should win. If we don’t bring max effort then hopefully it will be a very clear pain borne out of missed opportunity in certain games throughout the year (particularly GCS, StK & Adel but id also throw in Richmond and Collingwood).
And then we’ll come out and be ruthless next year.
(But hopefully we still have 3 or more games to go ;-))


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:37 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 8129
Marchbank on Elliott I hope.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:42 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14938
CFC8795 wrote:
kezza wrote:
Did everyone get a ticket?
This game is going to be huge for both clubs.

I have a spare ticket. Level 1 Wing, Row X
You would have to sit with a lot of Carlton supporters though.
PM me if interested.

Go Blues!

I have reserved seat membership also on level 1.
There is a possibility I may have a spare ticket too. Some that I sit with are not sure if they can go. Won't know until the weekend.
Hope you find someone to use the ticket.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:54 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14938
Paddycripps wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
Charlie needs to play his best game this year if he wants to win the Coleman.
He's only 3 in front of Cameron and they have West Coast at GMHBA.
I reckon they'll be feeding him the goals too.


I just as much assume he misses Coleman and Blues miss finals.

I'm hoping the opposite.
How much more motivation does a forward need, two major achievements in one game.


Yes but it's a team game

OK so look say Cameron kicks 6, I mean it is a real possibility (he could kick more even)

Then Charlie needs 3 to tie

And remember Pies are hard to score against

The only thing I will say is, Charlie has had 3 lean weeks (2,2,1) so he is due a bit of a bag

And the club are due a win

Maybe we win and Charlie snags 3 and ties for the Coleman or wins it by a whisker

Jeremy Cameron out with a low grade hamstring injury.


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