Who should coach us next year? **Michael Voss**

thryleon · **Joined:** Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:14 pm **Posts:** 362

Blue Vain wrote:

thryleon wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

thryleon wrote:

His comments are spot on. Our club culture is the only reason we hired him.

The only reason? Not because the board were desperate to take the heat off themselves?
Not because the board thought we had stagnated after making consecutive finals campaigns?
Not because we expected to make finals and didn't?

Because of our "club culture".

Yep, the quick fix. Bring in malthouse who will add a defensive layer to our team and win a flag.

So the "only reason" was our club culture AND to add a defensive layer AND to win a flag?
Any others?

Point being the club culture thought we were the power house who could function like 80's, bring in a bloke, let him be coach, list manager, trainer, etc, and he would deliver a flag whilst everyone else gets to sit on their laurels and pat themselves on the back.

Are you going to make a point soon or are you going to just respond sarcastically ad nauseum?

bondiblue · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:30 am

Agro jr wrote:

jim wrote:

Good article from someone who has coached here. Let's see how many shoot the messenger rather than read the message......lol.................

Mick Malthouse: Why Carlton will remain trapped in a time warp unless board changes direction

So Carlton has won 16 premierships I was once told at a board meeting. I love history but rear-vision mirror stuff doesn’t win games at footy clubs, writes Mick Malthouse. (Herald Sun)

I love history. I love acknowledging the greats of the past. But in football, past club greats and past feats don’t win you games of football today or tomorrow.
In another board meeting I was informed of a five-year plan to win a premiership. I was in my second year at the club and I was told we were already three years into a plan that I was completely unaware of. They asked for my assessment, but didn’t like the answer.
It came as a great shock to most of the board members that the plan was totally unachievable in that time frame, and that in fact, until the constraints of contract management were lifted we were going to stay a middle-of-the-road team.
Too many players on an ageing list were overpaid or over-committed in lengthy contracts, in contrast to their ability. There was no room to move, or even to retain star power on the hit list of opposing clubs, and until we could afford multiple trades or multiple draft picks we were carrying the burden like baggage.
This did not sit well with several board members. But without this reality check Carlton was always going to be looking at the teams above it.
. (SB)

I know this bloke forgets what he had for breakfast most mornings, but surely he'd remember signing Thomas.

Shit. I forgot to mention he also didn't think Eddie Betts was finished and sent him off to Crows as a FA, and we got nothing for another forward who was 4 time AA, 3 time leading goal kicker, and legend status in the next 6 years.

What a right royal @#$%&! up Malthouse was....is.

thryleon · **Joined:** Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:14 pm **Posts:** 362

bondiblue wrote:

Agro jr wrote:

jim wrote:

Good article from someone who has coached here. Let's see how many shoot the messenger rather than read the message......lol.................

Mick Malthouse: Why Carlton will remain trapped in a time warp unless board changes direction

So Carlton has won 16 premierships I was once told at a board meeting. I love history but rear-vision mirror stuff doesn’t win games at footy clubs, writes Mick Malthouse. (Herald Sun)

I love history. I love acknowledging the greats of the past. But in football, past club greats and past feats don’t win you games of football today or tomorrow.
In another board meeting I was informed of a five-year plan to win a premiership. I was in my second year at the club and I was told we were already three years into a plan that I was completely unaware of. They asked for my assessment, but didn’t like the answer.
It came as a great shock to most of the board members that the plan was totally unachievable in that time frame, and that in fact, until the constraints of contract management were lifted we were going to stay a middle-of-the-road team.
Too many players on an ageing list were overpaid or over-committed in lengthy contracts, in contrast to their ability. There was no room to move, or even to retain star power on the hit list of opposing clubs, and until we could afford multiple trades or multiple draft picks we were carrying the burden like baggage.
This did not sit well with several board members. But without this reality check Carlton was always going to be looking at the teams above it.
. (SB)

I know this bloke forgets what he had for breakfast most mornings, but surely he'd remember signing Thomas.

Shit. I forgot to mention he also didn't think Eddie Betts was finished and sent him off to Crows as a FA, and we got nothing for another forward who was 4 time AA, 3 time leading goal kicker, and legend status in the next 6 years.

What a right royal @#$%&! up Malthouse was....is.

The inability of our club to work with malthouse to actually improve is the problem.

Blaming him masks that others failed to do the right thing by the club.

Ratten may very well have succeeded had we simply built a modern running football department and let him rub it the way a coach should.

These issues continue to raise their head at our club and simply not listening to malthouse because he was hated by the faithful is sticking your head in the sand and scape goating.

We had a multiple premiership winning coach in our midst who failed and in his last 2 seasons at Collingwood had a team humming along like a well oiled machine and yet here we are Blaming him for all our faults.

I thought some would have more critical thinking with respect to this.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:44 am

thryleon wrote:

The inability of our club to work with malthouse to actually improve is the problem.

Blaming him masks that others failed to do the right thing by the club.

Ratten may very well have succeeded had we simply built a modern running football department and let him rub it the way a coach should.

These issues continue to raise their head at our club and simply not listening to malthouse because he was hated by the faithful is sticking your head in the sand and scape goating.

We had a multiple premiership winning coach in our midst who failed and in his last 2 seasons at Collingwood had a team humming along like a well oiled machine and yet here we are Blaming him for all our faults.

I thought some would have more critical thinking with respect to this.

I'm hearing you, but I'm responding to the article Malthouse wrote for money.

Carlton headlines make money, not sense.

No denying about our Boards weaknesses in the past, and when Kerna was at the helm, we were at our weakest, on our knees.

No denying Malthouse though. He was a vulture that used his media mic to spruik for a job. That's what i'm talking about.

If you are referring to his article, you have your head in the sand. No head in the sand from me.

He did not fail in the midst of his tenure as you allude, he stuffed up from the outset.

His failures cannot be attributed to our Board, other than the Board choosing to replace Rattten: Sticks' biggest regret. Malthhouse deflects all blame in that article, and what are you doing? Pardoning him? Apologising to him, because we failed him?

His failures at our club were his doing and started the minute he was given the keys.

His self made failures at the club started from the Book launch...not what I would call the start as Head coach of a Professional.

He sacked some good staff and got his mates jobs ... who failed ...in particular to get our boys fit.

Got us a broken FA in Thomas for $700+K when pies didn't want him. Got rid of a legend in Eddie with FA, who loved the club along with a list of good players we needed and we got nothing for them....his tenure ended with Carlton receiving the wooden spoon. Yes, the team, he spruiked on radio with a list that would make the Top 4. That ended well...he was coach.

The Board's influence in Malthouse's failure as a Coach is overrated.

Malthouse was at Collingwood for 11 years and one Flag, and he was given everything he wanted from Maguire, no matter the cost. He wasn't that good. Carlton were broke and he made outlandish claims and failed. That's what I know.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:45 am

Lets moved forward.

The past is exactly that.

Turn the page. New Chapter.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:57 am

"Carlton were broke and he made outlandish claims and failed."

Its the Carlton were broke bit that I wanted to highlight Bondi - its the part of the equation no one seems to include. I don't think people ever consider just how broke we were. Until recently we were a basket case, had been since around 2000. One thing this current (sorry old current before new current board) did was address this glaring issue. We are no longer broke and are now in a position to do things properly. Doesn't mean we will, but it means if we can do the right things, make the right decisions, then money will not hinder us.

BigBlueWave · **Joined:** Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:45 pm **Posts:** 3072

bondiblue wrote:

BigBlueWave wrote:

Madhouse ... :mad:

I was thinking of you as I was typing away. :lol:

I did want to refer him to Madhouse, but I hoped you'd come in with that one.

You picked it long before many of us mere mortals.

Yea ... but I can finally laugh about it now. :lol:

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17959

thryleon wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

thryleon wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

thryleon wrote:

His comments are spot on. Our club culture is the only reason we hired him.

The only reason? Not because the board were desperate to take the heat off themselves?
Not because the board thought we had stagnated after making consecutive finals campaigns?
Not because we expected to make finals and didn't?

Because of our "club culture".

Yep, the quick fix. Bring in malthouse who will add a defensive layer to our team and win a flag.

So the "only reason" was our club culture AND to add a defensive layer AND to win a flag?
Any others?

Point being the club culture thought we were the power house who could function like 80's, bring in a bloke, let him be coach, list manager, trainer, etc, and he would deliver a flag whilst everyone else gets to sit on their laurels and pat themselves on the back.

Are you going to make a point soon or are you going to just respond sarcastically ad nauseum?

I'm not trying to make a point. You are. I'm trying to determine if any of the crap being posted about the board is true.
When you say someone is quoted as saying something negative about the club. (Voss) I want to know if it's an actual quote.
When you cant provide said quote, I disregard the comment.

When you say "club culture" is the only reason we hired Malthouse, I want to know if it's fact or opinion.
It's all part of the process. If we're expected to make decisions about the board and any challengers, I'd like to make my decision armed with facts. Not rumour and unsubstantiated quotes. Just like Caroline Wilson said Clarkson is "on record" as saying he is turned off by the board instability.
I cant see it on record anywhere.

So it's another comment to disregard unless someone can produce this "on the record" comment.

Outback Blue · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:27 pm

Over the last 20 years we've had,

Brittain
Pagan
Ratten
Malthouse
Bolton
Teague

Maybe we have a team / culture that just can't be coached....no matter who the next elected coach will be....

Nothing will change.....

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk

Blue Steel · **Joined:** Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:16 pm **Posts:** 276

bondiblue wrote:

Lets moved forward.

The past is exactly that.

Turn the page. New Chapter.

Hopefully new book

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sidefx · **Joined:** Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm **Posts:** 6363

Walsh wrote:

jezzarules wrote:

jim wrote:

thryleon wrote:

Michael voss is who we want next.

Just stop him from getting too involved with recruiting. Comes from Port who play one of the best brands of footy out there.

Already failed once. Winning record was 39.9%, even less than Teague at 42%, and that was a after a good first year. Last thing we need is to risk a coach that failed in our situation.

Everyone we're looking at has failed at least once, unless we go for a first timer.

Young coach with fresh ideas and correct support structure around him.

Let me get this right, you want to get a NEW young rookie coach to replace a rookie coach, who replaced a rookie coach?
:hitcomputer:

bmaurizio · **Joined:** Thu May 05, 2005 10:49 am **Posts:** 1621

Whomever Diesel recommends will do fine, were in competent hands, the innuendos & slurs bandied about the coaching candidates are just that a waste of time .
There are are other critical issues to be resolved, our playing list is in a mess , other departments need to be revamped.

17th Premiership · **Joined:** Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am **Posts:** 2742

Re the Malthouse article and subsequent disagreements on here, two things can be true at the same time:

- Yes, our culture sucks esp at Board level for many of the reasons MM points out (which everyone already knew)
- MM is also rewriting history with much of that article: e.g. Richmond's plan was to win multiple flags and 70k members WAY before they were anywhere near a proper finals prospect (yes, they made a couple of finals but bundled out wk 1, including by us). He also commented that the sky is the limit and had high expectations of our list (certainly publicly).

Also, the MM we hired was not the same coach that finished at Collingwood. Without the handover to Buckley, there is every chance the Pies would have won the flag in 2011 when they were better than 2010 but derailed right at the end of the year as MM lost his shit and his focus. The MM we hired was not the same coach and didn't have his heart in it except to prove Collingwood wrong (I distinctly remember him going on a book tour with his daughter after being appointed before properly getting into the club).

jim · **Joined:** Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm **Posts:** 8185

bluechampion wrote:

Hiring Malthouse is why we're in the position we're in now.

We sacked Ratten after a bad season to hire the 'best' - who proceeded to do no better than Ratten in his first year and then decided he needed to blow up the list so they could play his patented brand of finals-proof footy. We fell into a hole, never got within a @#$%&! mile of finals, he got the arse and we had to start all over again from a much worse spot.

Say what you like about the holes in the list during the Ratten years, but they could have been fixed with some half-decent recruiting, development and management. Malthouse took the same list nowhere and set us back another decade by being an arrogant old [REDACTED].

Does give an interesting insight from an insider and the issues he brings up are spot on. That's why I find it important to read the message rather than shoot the messenger irrespective of what he did here. The same issues he talks about have been there for 20 years.

The culture was one of the things the review missed. That should be the first thing the Board required of the new coach to work with the players, not just tell then as that won't work, on improving that culture. Work very closely with the leaders to drive standards with with real peer pressure. That way we get rid of those constant, lazy, half arsed, unmotivated effort we have kept seeing over the last 20 years. That should be the first thing on the list but Board has gone down the old Carlton of instantly demanding finals. All that'll mean is the tail will wag the dog again because the players have got away with it for 20 years. Hence another coach will get sacked. It's unlikely there's finals until the culture is properly sorted.

Cazzesman · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:21 pm

I see The Age is suggesting McCrea will coach the Pies and Harvey will move on. I wonder if he would join Lyon if Lyon gets the nod.

Harvey worked under Ratten and then later under Lyon at the Saints.

Just musing.

Regards Cazzesman

17th Premiership · **Joined:** Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am **Posts:** 2742

No real data for this but I am not inspired by Robert Harvey as an assistant coach.

Navy Blue Horse · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm **Posts:** 15848

Outback Blue wrote:

Over the last 20 years we've had,

Brittain
Pagan
Ratten
Malthouse
Bolton
Teague

Maybe we have a team / culture that just can't be coached....no matter who the next elected coach will be....

Nothing will change.....

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk

Pagan - so much wrong at that time
Ratten, Bolton and Teague all weren't ready
Malthouse was in it for the wrong reasons

Teddy Hopkins · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:05 pm

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Outback Blue wrote:

Over the last 20 years we've had,

Brittain
Pagan
Ratten
Malthouse
Bolton
Teague

Maybe we have a team / culture that just can't be coached....no matter who the next elected coach will be....

Nothing will change.....

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk

Pagan - so much wrong at that time
Ratten, Bolton and Teague all weren't ready
Malthouse was in it for the wrong reasons

So who is right, ready, and in it for the right reasons?

jezzarules · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:09 pm **Posts:** 5874

Teddy Hopkins wrote:

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Outback Blue wrote:

Over the last 20 years we've had,

Brittain
Pagan
Ratten
Malthouse
Bolton
Teague

Maybe we have a team / culture that just can't be coached....no matter who the next elected coach will be....

Nothing will change.....

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk

Pagan - so much wrong at that time
Ratten, Bolton and Teague all weren't ready
Malthouse was in it for the wrong reasons

So who is right, ready, and in it for the right reasons?

Voss is the main one I don't have particular concerns about currency or divisiveness

camel · **Posted:** Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:52 am

1. I'm not a fan of Lyon.
2. An article like this is usually grist for the mill, except it is Pavlich commenting on Lyon, so maybe it has some value in our current context…

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/08/30/ ... weighs-in/

Quote:

“The playing group is relatively well established, they’ve been there for a while, all their draft picks have been high and all the trades that have come in,” the Freo great told SEN’s Gilly and Goss.

“It’s a pretty mature group if you look at that list. If you’re talking about where that team is at in their life cycle or evolution, they’ve got a good foundation there.

“My personal view about Ross, he was the best coach I had. No one is perfect and he’s got things he needed to work on and needs to work on to get the best out himself and his group and he’s fully aware of that.

“I haven’t heard from him or spoken to him personally so I don’t know if, outside of what we see in the media, it sounds like he’s put his hand up and wants that role, my personal view is he would be a very good coach again at AFL level whether it’s at Carlton or otherwise.”

…

“In my view Ross’ great strengths are about the team dynamic piece, if he can get that right and that harmony and that chemistry and that challenge and that beautiful mixture of support and challenge.

“If you can get that right in an AFL environment then your team can be up and humming.”

Who should coach us next year? Michael Voss

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