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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:09 pm 
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grrofunger wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Fagan, Bolton and now Noble have the teams playing an identifiable brand in the first 12 months. Then they had time to hone it.
We ignored defence for 2+ years and sadly, Teague is going to pay for it.


We haven't ignored defence at all - we have players that are too lazy to run back and lay tackles.

Focussing on ball movement doesn't mean you take players away from behind the ball. Pressing up and intercepting exit kicks from the opposition is a part of defence also running back behind the ball with speed. The faster joggers in defensive transition are weeded out the better - we have the worst midfield in this regard.

They are at fault almost 80% of the time in defensive transition. Lack fitness/desire/hunger/talent all of the above who knows.

Bolton put 18 players behind the ball and won 4 games in 44.... major failure.

Can't play homogenous football and expect to win flags.... ball movement is the alpha and omega in todays game and turn overs will occur and either current crops work rate in defensive transition improves or find players that can.


...and Teague has done stuff all about it.


Or maybe the recruiters should do a better job on who they bring to the club. I am hoping Austin pays as much attention to a player with ball in hand and work rate when not in possession.

We just seem to recruit lazy flashy players.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:17 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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It is BOTH the players and coach that’s why we are in this malaise both are culpable neither should be given an out for a very poor disappointing year which has let the whole supporter base down
Yes lazy players contribute to this problem but not the whole issue and the coach doesn’t get a leave pass
Not only do we recruit lazy players we have appointed coaches who for various reasons can’t get the team to perform and to turn up and give effort every week let alone come with a plan that regularly wins matches


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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We'll agree to disagree Walsh. You've previously stated that defence is the easiest element of football to teach and that attack is the best form of defence.
I believe a sustainable game style should be built around all 3 phases of the game and their relationship to each other from the outset. You cant teach offence without understanding how it complements and compromises your defensive integrity. No phase is easier to teach than the other. They cant be treated as seperate components.

FWIW, I've said previously I don't want to see Teague sacked but I want to know where it has fallen short. Is he compromised by resources? I know injury has played a big part this year but that doesn't stop your defensive link and communication on field. It's only in the past 6 weeks we've seen evidence of it. Why?
Teague has to come up with some answers.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:25 pm 
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frank dardew wrote:
It is BOTH the players and coach that’s why we are in this malaise both are culpable neither should be given an out for a very poor disappointing year which has let the whole supporter base down
Yes lazy players contribute to this problem but not the whole issue and the coach doesn’t get a leave pass
Not only do we recruit lazy players we have appointed coaches who for various reasons can’t get the team to perform and to turn up and give effort every week let alone come with a plan that regularly wins matches


Agree to that coaches need their best team to play finals also.

Disappointing year - player list still needs a lot of work as players have all the resources around them I am not sure how many development coaches they have but its more than a handful.

Same with coaches also need guidance and support structure as well and we might start to look like a professional football team.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:34 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
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Walsh wrote:
frank dardew wrote:
It is BOTH the players and coach that’s why we are in this malaise both are culpable neither should be given an out for a very poor disappointing year which has let the whole supporter base down
Yes lazy players contribute to this problem but not the whole issue and the coach doesn’t get a leave pass
Not only do we recruit lazy players we have appointed coaches who for various reasons can’t get the team to perform and to turn up and give effort every week let alone come with a plan that regularly wins matches


Agree to that coaches need their best team to play finals also.

Disappointing year - player list still needs a lot of work as players have all the resources around them I am not sure how many development coaches they have but its more than a handful.

Same with coaches also need guidance and support structure as well and we might start to look like a professional football team.

Teague with his coaching staff won’t be given anymore time , he is done is 4 weeks

This next coach has to be the right appointment with the right people around him , or
Oblivion here we come for good

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:41 pm 
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azzablue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
frank dardew wrote:
It is BOTH the players and coach that’s why we are in this malaise both are culpable neither should be given an out for a very poor disappointing year which has let the whole supporter base down
Yes lazy players contribute to this problem but not the whole issue and the coach doesn’t get a leave pass
Not only do we recruit lazy players we have appointed coaches who for various reasons can’t get the team to perform and to turn up and give effort every week let alone come with a plan that regularly wins matches


Agree to that coaches need their best team to play finals also.

Disappointing year - player list still needs a lot of work as players have all the resources around them I am not sure how many development coaches they have but its more than a handful.

Same with coaches also need guidance and support structure as well and we might start to look like a professional football team.

Teague with his coaching staff won’t be given anymore time , he is done is 4 weeks

This next coach has to be the right appointment with the right people around him , or
Oblivion here we come for good


Yeah Buddy - get someone like Ken Hinkley that coaches vanilla football. Win plenty of games but never a flag.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:39 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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How much influence does the senior coach have on the MC.

I cannot fathom how Cottrell keeps getting games doing nothing every week while the other young players in Honey, Ramsay and even Kemp have not had a look in.

Fisher wants to be a small forward to guarantee his place in the side. He isn't, he is a mid so play him there.

"Manage" some of the high paid recruits to show if they under perform their place is not secure.

Much as I hate to say it, the bastard would not stand for a fraction of what we are dishing up at the moment.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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azzablue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
frank dardew wrote:
It is BOTH the players and coach that’s why we are in this malaise both are culpable neither should be given an out for a very poor disappointing year which has let the whole supporter base down
Yes lazy players contribute to this problem but not the whole issue and the coach doesn’t get a leave pass
Not only do we recruit lazy players we have appointed coaches who for various reasons can’t get the team to perform and to turn up and give effort every week let alone come with a plan that regularly wins matches


Agree to that coaches need their best team to play finals also.

Disappointing year - player list still needs a lot of work as players have all the resources around them I am not sure how many development coaches they have but its more than a handful.

Same with coaches also need guidance and support structure as well and we might start to look like a professional football team.

Teague with his coaching staff won’t be given anymore time , he is done is 4 weeks

This next coach has to be the right appointment with the right people around him , or
Oblivion here we come for good


Yes agree with you regarding Teague & support staff most will be let go and we absolutely cannot get the new appointments wrong or well be doomed to flounder in the wilderness for a many more years.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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azzablue wrote:
Teague with his coaching staff won’t be given anymore time , he is done is 4 weeks

This next coach has to be the right appointment with the right people around him , or
Oblivion here we come for good


Oblivion sounds really bad. We don't want that :garthp:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:11 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
Walsh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Fagan, Bolton and now Noble have the teams playing an identifiable brand in the first 12 months. Then they had time to hone it.
We ignored defence for 2+ years and sadly, Teague is going to pay for it.


We haven't ignored defence at all - we have players that are too lazy to run back and lay tackles.

Focussing on ball movement doesn't mean you take players away from behind the ball. Pressing up and intercepting exit kicks from the opposition is a part of defence also running back behind the ball with speed. The faster joggers in defensive transition are weeded out the better - we have the worst midfield in this regard.

They are at fault almost 80% of the time in defensive transition. Lack fitness/desire/hunger/talent all of the above who knows.

Bolton put 18 players behind the ball and won 4 games in 44.... major failure.

Can't play homogenous football and expect to win flags.... ball movement is the alpha and omega in todays game and turn overs will occur and either current crops work rate in defensive transition improves or find players that can.


But you love Cripps. He's one of those.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:40 pm 
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bondiblue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Fagan, Bolton and now Noble have the teams playing an identifiable brand in the first 12 months. Then they had time to hone it.
We ignored defence for 2+ years and sadly, Teague is going to pay for it.


We haven't ignored defence at all - we have players that are too lazy to run back and lay tackles.

Focussing on ball movement doesn't mean you take players away from behind the ball. Pressing up and intercepting exit kicks from the opposition is a part of defence also running back behind the ball with speed. The faster joggers in defensive transition are weeded out the better - we have the worst midfield in this regard.

They are at fault almost 80% of the time in defensive transition. Lack fitness/desire/hunger/talent all of the above who knows.

Bolton put 18 players behind the ball and won 4 games in 44.... major failure.

Can't play homogenous football and expect to win flags.... ball movement is the alpha and omega in todays game and turn overs will occur and either current crops work rate in defensive transition improves or find players that can.


But you love Cripps. He's one of those.


He has been recently, yes. But has credits. Can afford one way runner in the middle not 3-4. Cripps is more damaging moving forward than anyone else in the squad so he gets my vote.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:51 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2912
Walsh wrote:
azzablue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
frank dardew wrote:
It is BOTH the players and coach that’s why we are in this malaise both are culpable neither should be given an out for a very poor disappointing year which has let the whole supporter base down
Yes lazy players contribute to this problem but not the whole issue and the coach doesn’t get a leave pass
Not only do we recruit lazy players we have appointed coaches who for various reasons can’t get the team to perform and to turn up and give effort every week let alone come with a plan that regularly wins matches


Agree to that coaches need their best team to play finals also.

Disappointing year - player list still needs a lot of work as players have all the resources around them I am not sure how many development coaches they have but its more than a handful.

Same with coaches also need guidance and support structure as well and we might start to look like a professional football team.

Teague with his coaching staff won’t be given anymore time , he is done is 4 weeks

This next coach has to be the right appointment with the right people around him , or
Oblivion here we come for good


Yeah Buddy - get someone like Ken Hinkley that coaches vanilla football. Win plenty of games but never a flag.

So, let’s say he survives. Who do you want as his assistants? If he got the changes how long until we could reasonably see results (doesn’t have to be finals but significant improvement on the current output)

Which players are you letting go to achieve the above?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:08 pm 
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DesEnglish wrote:
Walsh wrote:
azzablue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
frank dardew wrote:
It is BOTH the players and coach that’s why we are in this malaise both are culpable neither should be given an out for a very poor disappointing year which has let the whole supporter base down
Yes lazy players contribute to this problem but not the whole issue and the coach doesn’t get a leave pass
Not only do we recruit lazy players we have appointed coaches who for various reasons can’t get the team to perform and to turn up and give effort every week let alone come with a plan that regularly wins matches


Agree to that coaches need their best team to play finals also.

Disappointing year - player list still needs a lot of work as players have all the resources around them I am not sure how many development coaches they have but its more than a handful.

Same with coaches also need guidance and support structure as well and we might start to look like a professional football team.

Teague with his coaching staff won’t be given anymore time , he is done is 4 weeks

This next coach has to be the right appointment with the right people around him , or
Oblivion here we come for good


Yeah Buddy - get someone like Ken Hinkley that coaches vanilla football. Win plenty of games but never a flag.

So, let’s say he survives. Who do you want as his assistants? If he got the changes how long until we could reasonably see results (doesn’t have to be finals but significant improvement on the current output)

Which players are you letting go to achieve the above?


Leave it as it is.... assistants are fine why change them? Its social media doing aimless belly flops. The assistants out of contract should be measured in accordance to the talent they have had on the park - which isn't much . If they have failed then bring new assistants in. The coaching team deserves to prove what they can do with a healthy list not a VFL team. That means Charlie, Docherty, Marchbank, Pittonet, Cunningham, Gibbons and McGovern - if you dont feel they will play the full 22 game set for the season then get rid of them & if any of the players coming out of contract has limited upside but overrated then trade them out for anything you can get. The club in its entirety needs its best team on the park every week to play finals or the recruiters need to weave some magic and make it happen.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
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Agree to that coacheneed their best team to play finals also.

Disappointing year - player list still needs a lot of work as players have all the resources around them I am not sure how many development coaches they have but its more than a handful.

Same with coaches also need guidance and support structure as well and we might start to look like a professional football team.[/quote]
Teague with his coaching staff won’t be given anymore time , he is done is 4 weeks

This next coach has to be the right appointment with the right people around him , or
Oblivion here we come for good[/quote]

Yeah Buddy - get someone like Ken Hinkley that coaches vanilla football. Win plenty of games but never a flag.[/quote]
So, let’s say he survives. Who do you want as his assistants? If he got the changes how long until we could reasonably see results (doesn’t have to be finals but significant improvement on the current output)

Which players are you letting go to achieve the above?[/quote]

Leave it as it is.... assistants are fine why change them? Its social media doing aimless belly flops. The assistants out of contract should be measured in accordance to the talent they have had on the park - which isn't much . If they have failed then bring new assistants in. The coaching team deserves to prove what they can do with a healthy list not a VFL team. That means Charlie, Docherty, Marchbank, Pittonet, Cunningham, Gibbons and McGovern - if you dont feel they will play the full 22 game set for the season then get rid of them & if any of the players coming out of contract has limited upside but overrated then trade them out for anything you can get. The club in its entirety needs its best team on the park every week to play finals or the recruiters need to weave some magic and make it happen.[/quote]

Apologies, when you said he needs better support I assumed you meant assistants.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:34 pm 
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Yeah I mean a coaching director or football director that ticks off everything they do like Dunstall did to Clarkson in his first three years and offered support.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:52 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
Walsh wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Fagan, Bolton and now Noble have the teams playing an identifiable brand in the first 12 months. Then they had time to hone it.
We ignored defence for 2+ years and sadly, Teague is going to pay for it.


We haven't ignored defence at all - we have players that are too lazy to run back and lay tackles.

Focussing on ball movement doesn't mean you take players away from behind the ball. Pressing up and intercepting exit kicks from the opposition is a part of defence also running back behind the ball with speed. The faster joggers in defensive transition are weeded out the better - we have the worst midfield in this regard.

They are at fault almost 80% of the time in defensive transition. Lack fitness/desire/hunger/talent all of the above who knows.

Bolton put 18 players behind the ball and won 4 games in 44.... major failure.

Can't play homogenous football and expect to win flags.... ball movement is the alpha and omega in todays game and turn overs will occur and either current crops work rate in defensive transition improves or find players that can.


But you love Cripps. He's one of those.


He has been recently, yes. But has credits. Can afford one way runner in the middle not 3-4. Cripps is more damaging moving forward than anyone else in the squad so he gets my vote.


Not right to have one rule for one and different set of rules for the others.

Stuff those credits. He's used them up in the last 2 seasons. The time is now.

This conditional bullshit has to stop ... for everyone ... including the coaches.

Pick and choose the players who don't pick and choose when they want to do the right thing: team rules.

Selfishness gets us nowhere. One for all and all for one!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:54 pm 
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bondiblue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Fagan, Bolton and now Noble have the teams playing an identifiable brand in the first 12 months. Then they had time to hone it.
We ignored defence for 2+ years and sadly, Teague is going to pay for it.


We haven't ignored defence at all - we have players that are too lazy to run back and lay tackles.

Focussing on ball movement doesn't mean you take players away from behind the ball. Pressing up and intercepting exit kicks from the opposition is a part of defence also running back behind the ball with speed. The faster joggers in defensive transition are weeded out the better - we have the worst midfield in this regard.

They are at fault almost 80% of the time in defensive transition. Lack fitness/desire/hunger/talent all of the above who knows.

Bolton put 18 players behind the ball and won 4 games in 44.... major failure.

Can't play homogenous football and expect to win flags.... ball movement is the alpha and omega in todays game and turn overs will occur and either current crops work rate in defensive transition improves or find players that can.


But you love Cripps. He's one of those.


He has been recently, yes. But has credits. Can afford one way runner in the middle not 3-4. Cripps is more damaging moving forward than anyone else in the squad so he gets my vote.


Not right to have one rule for one and different set of rules for the others.

Stuff those credits. He's used them up in the last 2 seasons. The time is now.

This conditional bullshit has to stop ... for everyone ... including the coaches.

Pick and choose the players who don't pick and choose when they want to do the right thing: team rules.

Selfishness gets us nowhere. One for all and all for one!


yes it is right becuse the others cant run, cant kick and cant tackle.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:00 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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If you say so.

Let me think about that again.

One rule for Cripps and different set of rules for everyone else?

Nah. Never going to work.

In that case, it wont be Teague that loses the players, it will be Cripps.
He hasn't been that good to have him on a pedestal, on credits ,whilst everyone else busts their gut.

Leadership is do what I do not what I say....and that's what will happen.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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There's local footy coaches that are able to get a team of part timers playing an identifiable brand of footy inside 12 months. Teague hasn't been able to do it in 2 years with professional footballers.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:36 pm 
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
There's local footy coaches that are able to get a team of part timers playing an identifiable brand of footy inside 12 months. Teague hasn't been able to do it in 2 years with professional footballers.


Takes two years to learn a game a plan - its not the game plan itself its recruiting the right players in the right positions able to execute - country football has no such problems as they're well....not AFL standard. Taken Buckley some five years to get the right players he wants to play to his style and still muffed it with a weak forward line. So it's not easy ..... Teague cant even get his current players on the park, you cant blame him for that or you have screws loose.


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