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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:53 am 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:40 pm
Posts: 899
TheDenominator wrote:
I don't know if Teague is the right guy or not but what i do know is this shit started way before Teague got here.
I definitely don't think you can pin the culture on him. This stuff starts at the top and is embedded in your every day habits, processes, beliefs etc.

I think we were all on board with the rebuild & that it needed to happen because the list was terrible in circa 2015.

This may be all hindsight but to me what was fundamentally wrong with the whole process is that we forgot the part where we play this @#$%&! game to win! Our mantra should always be about winning - why else are we here? Instead we got given a message post Bolton's appointment that sounded something like "we won't be defined by wins and losses". We were conditioned to get excited by a passage of play, or a good mark, @#$%&! green shoots and honorable losses. I don't know about anyone else but if I am a Weitering, McKay, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Curnow etc etc and I am coming into a professional organisation, all I am hearing is "don't worry about winning, just develop a little bit and eventually we'll get there". Once that's in my head the pressure is off baby. I can get paid very good money to deliver pretty much @#$%&! all - club has told me as much. Sure at some point the pressure will come as it is now, but how hard will it be to change that mindset? To alter the culture ?

Based on the current state of play much harder than they'd like it to be I would say. Going to take some serious leadership to turn it around. Who will do that?


spot on.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:56 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 10062
Location: Australia
Walsh wrote:
kennyhunter wrote:
What’s Walshy gunna post about when Teague goes?


Would be a short sighted and panicky decision. I'll accept it but if we go through this again in two years the board will need a broom

The vindictiveness and vitriol directed towards him on social media is pathetic. He can only apologise for not being able to scratch your collective egos while being on lockdown.


What if they take a broom to the board, the coach AND the footy department? Would you support that?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:58 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 10062
Location: Australia
BlueJean wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
Nick wrote:
ColourMan wrote:
kezza wrote:
One of the better posters on BF has posted;
Pyke, Leppitsch, Scott, Lyon
one of the above (at least) will be coaching Carlton next year.


Yep, apparently Teague not continuing next year will be announced before the end of the season…

Lloyd won’t survive either…

Liddell is on shaky ground…

Change of captain is being mooted, with Weiters looking likely…


Is this your own knowledge or bigfooty hearsay?


Nothing to do with bigfooty, I don’t go there

The approach moving forward was also discussed today, which Sayers will announce in due course

Didn’t bother posting any of that because aspects of it may change


Are we looking at a replacement in senior coach within the next 10 days, ColourMan?


If Teague gets wind of this he’d likely resign anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:13 am 
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Banned

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sinbagger wrote:
Walsh wrote:
kennyhunter wrote:
What’s Walshy gunna post about when Teague goes?


Would be a short sighted and panicky decision. I'll accept it but if we go through this again in two years the board will need a broom

The vindictiveness and vitriol directed towards him on social media is pathetic. He can only apologise for not being able to scratch your collective egos while being on lockdown.


What if they take a broom to the board, the coach AND the footy department? Would you support that?


Yes.

Sayers has been there for 10 years - you would think he is one of the first to go.

Poor recruiting and drafting isn't necessarily a football development program problem - they are not at fault we gave up five second round picks and 2017 first round pick for McGovern, Setterfield, Marchbank and Kennedy for example.


Last edited by Walsh on Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:17 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7767
Location: Bendigo
ColourMan wrote:
kezza wrote:
One of the better posters on BF has posted;
Pyke, Leppitsch, Scott, Lyon
one of the above (at least) will be coaching Carlton next year.


Yep, apparently Teague not continuing next year will be announced before the end of the season…

Lloyd won’t survive either…

Liddell is on shaky ground…

Change of captain is being mooted, with Weiters looking likely…

The off-field position (beyond the scope of the review) is probably Liddle’s saving grace.

Lloyd is a lame duck.

No chance of a Teague resignation. That would require him to make an adjustment.

Just my humble, but I think we’d be making a mistake if Amos was moved on.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:51 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1862
Location: Brisbane, QLD
How do we know Sayers wasn't at every board meeting challenging every poor decision so far (including the appointment of Teague and recruiting busts) and being outvoted every time? Give the guy a chance to sweep the broom and make his mark, safe to say he's not Old Carlton and he doesn't appear to have any of its political alliances/conflicts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:00 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Sayers will be focused and determined, give him time to absorb the institutional incompetence and address the political factions within and surrounding our administration.
Plenty of history and procedure to acknowledge too.
I’m confident, He’ll certainly affect changes , in all areas , will ruffle feathers, he’s no yes man.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:04 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
Scotty12000 wrote:
How do we know Sayers wasn't at every board meeting challenging every poor decision so far (including the appointment of Teague and recruiting busts) and being outvoted every time? Give the guy a chance to sweep the broom and make his mark, safe to say he's not Old Carlton and he doesn't appear to have any of its political alliances/conflicts.



+1

Good onya Scotty

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:07 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
bmaurizio wrote:
Sayers will be focused and determined, give him time to absorb the institutional incompetence and address the political factions within and surrounding our administration.
Plenty of history and procedure to acknowledge too.
I’m confident, He’ll certainly affect changes , in all areas , will ruffle feathers, he’s no yes man.


That's what I know about Sayers too.

I'm a fan of this Review.

Review or no review we have wasted another year.

He's being proactive and wants to Nip it at the bud.

I'm interested in finding out from the Review if finds injuries this year have cut too deep to succeed.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:30 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
bondiblue wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
How do we know Sayers wasn't at every board meeting challenging every poor decision so far (including the appointment of Teague and recruiting busts) and being outvoted every time? Give the guy a chance to sweep the broom and make his mark, safe to say he's not Old Carlton and he doesn't appear to have any of its political alliances/conflicts.



+1

Good onya Scotty

If sayers keeps Teague , considering he was a head of pwc then he is incompetent as every other board member

He would have enough of sample size to show that Teague and his coaching dept is out of there depth , with the talent we have on our list

Sayers legacy will be defined in the next 2 months and what decisions are made after this review !! Will it be another 20 years of being losers of the afl or a genuine return to our position of power club of the afl !!

These decisions will define our club ,,,

We are in the top 4 for longest drought of last winning a flag ... only Melbourne and st kilda are ahead of us

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:27 pm 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
Scotty12000 wrote:
How do we know Sayers wasn't at every board meeting challenging every poor decision so far (including the appointment of Teague and recruiting busts) and being outvoted every time? Give the guy a chance to sweep the broom and make his mark, safe to say he's not Old Carlton and he doesn't appear to have any of its political alliances/conflicts.


Past 10 years he has attended all meetings. Thats 140 board meetings....

Four coaches in 10 years... while proper professional clubs find ways to add support structures he has overseen (as part of compliance of the club) four different coaches.

A whole lot of good this has done. Another coach is sacked and he has to go and take his board buddies with him.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:04 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
Walsh wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
How do we know Sayers wasn't at every board meeting challenging every poor decision so far (including the appointment of Teague and recruiting busts) and being outvoted every time? Give the guy a chance to sweep the broom and make his mark, safe to say he's not Old Carlton and he doesn't appear to have any of its political alliances/conflicts.


Past 10 years he has attended all meetings. Thats 140 board meetings....

Four coaches in 10 years... while proper professional clubs find ways to add support structures he has overseen (as part of compliance of the club) four different coaches.

A whole lot of good this has done. Another coach is sacked and he has to go and take his board buddies with him.


I'm glad they sacked coaches who were not going to win us flags.

The problem is how those coaches were selected.

We were warned about training wheels.

I know one colleague of Teagues who says the head Coach role is too big for Teague.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:12 pm 
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bondiblue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
How do we know Sayers wasn't at every board meeting challenging every poor decision so far (including the appointment of Teague and recruiting busts) and being outvoted every time? Give the guy a chance to sweep the broom and make his mark, safe to say he's not Old Carlton and he doesn't appear to have any of its political alliances/conflicts.


Past 10 years he has attended all meetings. Thats 140 board meetings....

Four coaches in 10 years... while proper professional clubs find ways to add support structures he has overseen (as part of compliance of the club) four different coaches.

A whole lot of good this has done. Another coach is sacked and he has to go and take his board buddies with him.


I'm glad they sacked coaches who were not going to win us flags.

The problem is how those coaches were selected.

We were warned about training wheels.

I know one colleague of Teagues who says the head Coach role is too big for Teague.


His win rate suggests otherwise and that's with a crippled injury list.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:16 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
Walsh wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
How do we know Sayers wasn't at every board meeting challenging every poor decision so far (including the appointment of Teague and recruiting busts) and being outvoted every time? Give the guy a chance to sweep the broom and make his mark, safe to say he's not Old Carlton and he doesn't appear to have any of its political alliances/conflicts.


Past 10 years he has attended all meetings. Thats 140 board meetings....

Four coaches in 10 years... while proper professional clubs find ways to add support structures he has overseen (as part of compliance of the club) four different coaches.

A whole lot of good this has done. Another coach is sacked and he has to go and take his board buddies with him.


I'm glad they sacked coaches who were not going to win us flags.

The problem is how those coaches were selected.

We were warned about training wheels.

I know one colleague of Teagues who says the head Coach role is too big for Teague.


His win rate suggests otherwise and that's with a crippled injury list.


Fair enough.

hey, I don't know if the 4 coaches were good enough or not, just sayin' the Board did good IF....

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:24 pm 
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Posts: 2333
bondiblue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
How do we know Sayers wasn't at every board meeting challenging every poor decision so far (including the appointment of Teague and recruiting busts) and being outvoted every time? Give the guy a chance to sweep the broom and make his mark, safe to say he's not Old Carlton and he doesn't appear to have any of its political alliances/conflicts.


Past 10 years he has attended all meetings. Thats 140 board meetings....

Four coaches in 10 years... while proper professional clubs find ways to add support structures he has overseen (as part of compliance of the club) four different coaches.

A whole lot of good this has done. Another coach is sacked and he has to go and take his board buddies with him.


I'm glad they sacked coaches who were not going to win us flags.

The problem is how those coaches were selected.

We were warned about training wheels.

I know one colleague of Teagues who says the head Coach role is too big for Teague.


His win rate suggests otherwise and that's with a crippled injury list.


Fair enough.

hey, I don't know if the 4 coaches were good enough or not, just sayin' the Board did good IF....


Two years to learn game plan and third year to execute it with a healthy list. Stock standard


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:23 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18075
Walsh wrote:
Two years to learn game plan and third year to execute it with a healthy list. Stock standard


:lol:
Nonsense.
2 years to flog a dead horse and then a few months to rectify it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:25 pm 
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Blue Vain wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Two years to learn game plan and third year to execute it with a healthy list. Stock standard


:lol:
Nonsense


Thats what Fagan, Bolton, Hardwick, Buckley etc got.

Standard knowledge. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:37 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18075
Fagan, Bolton and now Noble have the teams playing an identifiable brand in the first 12 months. Then they had time to hone it.
We ignored defence for 2+ years and sadly, Teague is going to pay for it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:44 pm 
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Blue Vain wrote:
Fagan, Bolton and now Noble have the teams playing an identifiable brand in the first 12 months. Then they had time to hone it.
We ignored defence for 2+ years and sadly, Teague is going to pay for it.


We haven't ignored defence at all - we have players that are too lazy to run back and lay tackles.

Focussing on ball movement doesn't mean you take players away from behind the ball. Pressing up and intercepting exit kicks from the opposition is a part of defence also running back behind the ball with speed. The faster joggers in defensive transition are weeded out the better - we have the worst midfield in this regard.

They are at fault almost 80% of the time in defensive transition. Lack fitness/desire/hunger/talent all of the above who knows.

Bolton put 18 players behind the ball and won 4 games in 44.... major failure.

Can't play homogenous football and expect to win flags.... ball movement is the alpha and omega in todays game and turn overs will occur and either current crops work rate in defensive transition improves or find players that can.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Prison Island
Walsh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Fagan, Bolton and now Noble have the teams playing an identifiable brand in the first 12 months. Then they had time to hone it.
We ignored defence for 2+ years and sadly, Teague is going to pay for it.


We haven't ignored defence at all - we have players that are too lazy to run back and lay tackles.

Focussing on ball movement doesn't mean you take players away from behind the ball. Pressing up and intercepting exit kicks from the opposition is a part of defence also running back behind the ball with speed. The faster joggers in defensive transition are weeded out the better - we have the worst midfield in this regard.

They are at fault almost 80% of the time in defensive transition. Lack fitness/desire/hunger/talent all of the above who knows.

Bolton put 18 players behind the ball and won 4 games in 44.... major failure.

Can't play homogenous football and expect to win flags.... ball movement is the alpha and omega in todays game and turn overs will occur and either current crops work rate in defensive transition improves or find players that can.


...and Teague has done stuff all about it.

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