I don’t agree that Levi has been in that bad form, his work around the ground and value to the team as second ruck is underrated. As a forward he takes a lot of attention away from Harry as he almost always gets the best defender. In addition he’s been playing so well that the opposition are putting a lot of time into making sure he is blocked, double teamed and kept away from the ball. He needs to work through this and showing his frustration is not a good look, but I’d argue that the real issue is the lack of any team play to help him in the fwd line, our lack of structure and teaming in the forward line has been pointed out many times by many posters. The coaches need to come up with a system to help Harry and Levi be able to compete 1:1.

In summary, Levi is not in bad form, our forward line coach is in bad form.

Edit - Levi was ranked third in our team on the weekend for dream team points, it maybe a questionable ranking system but he can’t be that bad to be ranked so highly.

Schoenberg played midfield pick 24

Keays as well they got him for virtually nothing
Laird and the Crouch brothers are all in their mid 20s
Sholl is20
Keays is 23
Sloane is the only old bugger in there
Argument over

We are a good contested ball team but if the opposition mids break even or smash us in that area we are [REDACTED]
That’s the number one issue that needs to be addressed
Too many plodders and lazy runners

On Gibbons get your facts straight BV
Bugg was SOs S first choice from GWS surprise surprise surprise as Gomer Pyle used to say
So SOs kind of got that right

Then there is flying around in a jet tucking into some smoked salmon olive without the pips and some bubbles trying to entice another GWS gun to us because we are the best
Well actually we arnt the best. We actually had just come off the worst year on record.

How do you reckon Shiel is going
Stringer
Do you reckon the bummers might be regretting giving up all those picks

So Shiel says no
He then gets McGovern

Not to mention the obsession in getting Cogs
How do you reckon he is travelling

Oh that’s right
He is from GWS too

I can see BV KK and Jim standing in front of the Heatley stand at half time sucking on a few full strength beers that they brought in through the rusty old gates in their traditional Aussie eski waiting the obligatory third quarter 10 goal blitz as we treat our opponents with total disdain

You guys live in the past

We’ve been saying this since the Judd days.





What was our 1979 - 1982 success built on, something called the “Mosquito Fleet”




Which is code for a deep midfield.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I’m not sure if you’re missing my point or ignoring it. Our starting midfield (De Koning, Cripps, Curnow, Setterfield) is younger than theirs (O’Brien, Laird, Crouch, Sloane).

The fact that Scholl, Keays and Schoenberg are playing well recently, despite not being key cogs in their midfield, is evidence that Dow, Cunningham and O’Brien could be doing the same. At some point there has to be personal accountability on those players rather than blaming the coaches.

In the absence of their senior midfielders the crows started the season 0-13. Now they get squeezed out by the senior crew and they win some games in the run home. Does that sort of form turnaround ring true to our 2019 season? Is Teague being bashed for it whilst Nicks is being praised for turning his season around?

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@cecil_anderson

Average age for 4 players you mentioned
Carlton 24.5
Adelaide 26.5
Take away the ruckman
Carlton 25.33
Adelaide 27
Cripps same age as Laird Crouch brothers
Curnow Sloane both 30
So what’s your point again

I think Schoenberg might of been a better pick than Philp

The old gen of simpson, murph, betts, kreuzer and curnow had one last crack to make finals and unfortunately we fell short. Its time to clear the deck and let the new generation step up, take the reins and create a winning culture. There are enough players with leader qualities to drive this. Doc, Cripps, Weitering and Walsh.

I fear keeping Murph and Curnow will make Teague start them at the centre bounces which will send us backyards. Keep one of them at best, preferably curnow who will pinch hit for midfield depth or play the odd tagging role. Let the players like SPS, Cunningham, Fisher, Dow, Stocker play their natural positions as their development has stalled playing out of position. Look at the year Weitering has had playing back all season.

This trade period should target key holes in our list. I would start with a genuine midfielder (preferably 25-28yrs) followed by a small pressure forward.

I’ve made my point as clearly as I can. Your numbers support my point.

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@cecil_anderson

Every team appears to run a core group of 4-6 midfielders who attend the bulk of centre bounces (e.g. 5 or more centre bounces in a game).

What is the core we want to see in 2021?

Cripps
Setterfield
Walsh
?
?
?

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@cecil_anderson

It’s not a great difference
Do you get my point
SOs s recruiting of mids was average unless his 2019 turn out ok
His obsession with blokes he new from the GWS days bordered on the ridiculous
Phillips
Summer
Pickett
The ones left arnt exactly ripping it up either
Don’t forget Lang as well
Our midfield is very weak
Why?

McAdam v Martin
Higher average in tackles contested marks
McAdam plays exclusively in the forward
Doesn’t get the stock standard cheap and easy stat in the back half
And he cost half a million less
Over to you agenda boy

Onya Sinbagger.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a Casboult fan.
Having him selected to make way for Curnow was indicative.
I did explain why I did choose his name and he definetely is not in the same form he was in the first 6 rounds...imo.
Laying the blame solely on Forwards coach is not right. He can't hold onto the many Levi has been dropping in the last 5 rounds.

I do value any metric, with the view that no metric system is perfect in AFL and if you can't measure then you can't fix, so I like Fantasy despite its limitations. Yes it does suggest he was 3rd best for carlton, but lets face it, we got smashed by the bottom team. 16 points wasn't the difference to the eye.

Levi has been the 2nd best forward- ruck in the AFL this year but look at his kicking for goals in the first 6 rounds and then the next 10. He's found his old kicking boots and missing from in front. Pit it this way, I have lost the confidence I had in the early part of the season.

Levi isn't the reason we have been losing, but he hasn't been helping us win either. He has let his emotions get the better of him, and he's been like Murph of late, playing for frees. I guess that's what players do when they get old. He hasn't been getting paid frees coz he's letting the opponent take the front spot.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Simmo has officially retired - https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/81365 ... lar-career

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

So I guess the starting back 6 next year:

B: Newman Weitering Plowman
HB: Docherty Jones Williamson?

I don't think SPS should be playing in the back 6.

Another area of the list that does not have much depth.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

You know what Thought did?
Pissed in his bed and thought he was sweating.

Now you're onto Philp. FMD keogh, you're against everyone.
You're losing me. Illogical bringing your emotions into the argument.

Go back to your basics where you had a tad of credibility:

McGovern bad deal
Recruiters limitations not taking anyone from lower leagues since Duigan.
McAdam looks allright
SOS got us a lot of mids but not one Big Fish
SOS stuffed up latter picks year in year out.
MLG - SOS relationship too close
Murphy extra year
Plowman's 3 year contract

Shit, I've heard it over and over, Synbad like, I can't forget....but youre introducing more...make believe.

There's two sides of the story and you show a nasty streak by bringing in every innocent recruit to discredit SOS but you're not doing them any favours, nor yourself.

Philp...19yo...I was so impressed in his preseason, his preseason game and his first game. Did you see any of the praccy games in the preseason. Man, he was playing against mature bodies and they couldn't get a hand on him...kicks goals...19yo.
He is exactly what we need, ditto Honey.....and he was a late pick. From what Ive seen of Honey, even just at training, jesus he played like a 22yo. Wait till you see his wheels, and you will.

Just be nice.

I feel I gave you an inch bringing you up during and after Crows match ...and you've taken it to your ego box ...and you've gone ... Mad Barry like.
You're much smarter than that. You just let your emotions and your ego take hold too much.

Now, what do you think about Betts and the Forward Pocket?
Can one of our kids fill that spot? I suggested SPS having re read his pre draft profile.

We need to look forward.
We can't just give up because we don't like the President who doesnt really say that much.
SOS is gone. He's in the past.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

For what it’s worth I don’t mind Philp or Honey from what I have seen
I certainly would prefer them over Murphy

When does Betts announce hisretirement

Marc Murphy, for his own sake and legacy, should follow Simmo's path.

our target /priority should be midfielder someone with pace ,secondly i would target a quick HBF and we don't need a small fwd all this fascination must recruit papley glad he is staying at syd anyway we have owies and honey.

The wrong guy retired today IMO.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

I don't think SPS should be playing HB either. But like you said, its an area that doesn't have much depth.

Marchbank is in my first 18, anyday of the week, if fit.

The only reason I had Wiliamson at HB in my Best 18 for 2021 and beyond was because

a: He was 3rd quickest in some metrics amongst the measured draftees and there's not a lot of options

b: felt I was missing something when TC and BF posters were crazy about him for a few of his runs and long kicks for us in 2017. I saw minor glimpses, but saw shortfalls too.

Williamson was the best of what we had. We were the bottom of the ladder. Move forward to 2020 and I see the same issues with his over reliance on his left peg which as a weapon I hardly see. He also loved for taking on the game. Yes its nice to have that sort of courage, but still reminds me of the same antics of one Paul Bower.

Another thing some posters love about him is the aggression he shows, which is usually after his opponent has kicked a goal on him. I'd rather see it in play, at the ball.

He ball watches when he should have touch on his opponent's body. I know he's still developing, but the way he is defended by some posters he's either the next Messiah or they are living in hope he becomes more consistent.

I don't think his back injury has any impact on him in 2020 and he looks like the same as he did in 2017. So I don't understand why is given so much slack because of that.

I have a feeling if we get Williams, he will recruited to play midfield but may play HB at times, if some kids step up next year, they may take that spot from Williamson, and I am expecting Kemp or Ramsay to have eyes for that position, but for mine I would give Williamson's spot to Plowman and put Marchbank in the BP as the intercept mark, when Weiters isn't.

Remember that Williamson only came into the team when Newman went down and I am grateful we hade him. Bird in the hand.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I'm glad to read that keogh.
Ive seen them live.
They are diffreent to anything SOS has drafted in the past.
I believe his first draft and the last draft may just save his reputation...and I believe in Dow if he can find some fire desire and C#@t in him.

Teague sees Betts playing in round 1, and that's about it.

I don't think we will need Betts and Murphy in the seniors next year, but good back up.

Hope we can rookie Betts next year if he stays on the list.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue