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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:50 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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grrofunger wrote:
She has her moments



Is that what you call them? :grin:

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Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:54 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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bluedog wrote:
When Collingwood were failing over the last couple of years, people were saying it was Buckley's doing because it was with the team he wanted - the team he built.

Is it the same with Carlton/Bolton?


No it's not, this isn't Bolton's list, it's the list manager's list.

Bolton wanted Jack Graham with a late selection in the 2017, the list manager overruled him.

Bolton was also overruled with selections in the 2016 & 2018 drafts.

Bolton warned the list manager that our midfield would be vulnerable if Gibbs was traded, the list manager assured Bolton that Gibbs would only be traded if Gibbs was replaced with senior mids to assist Cripps.

The list manager traded Gibbs, and failed to deliver (Smith went elsewhere, and the list manager only offered Rockliff 3 years, while PA offered him 4 years).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:58 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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ColourMan wrote:
bluedog wrote:
When Collingwood were failing over the last couple of years, people were saying it was Buckley's doing because it was with the team he wanted - the team he built.

Is it the same with Carlton/Bolton?


No it's not, this isn't Bolton's list, it's the list manager's list.

Bolton wanted Jack Graham with a late selection in the 2017, the list manager overruled him.

Bolton was also overruled with selections in the 2016 & 2018 drafts.

Bolton warned the list manager that our midfield would be vulnerable if Gibbs was traded, the list manager assured Bolton that Gibbs would only be traded if Gibbs was replaced with senior mids to assist Cripps.

The list manager traded Gibbs, and failed to deliver (Smith went elsewhere, and the list manager only offered Rockliff 3 years, while PA offered him 4 years).



Thank you for your reply.

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THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:38 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Our issue isn’t the kids we’ve picked up. Most have showed in bits and pieces that they ve got ‘it’.
It’s our youth development, and our strength and conditioning that’s the main issue, along with gameday strategy.
I honestly think that a lot can change if we surround Bolts with the right people in the above mentioned areas. We obviously need people like Blake Caracalla.
What’s obvious also is that we need to be aggressive at trade time and trade away our picks for good 22-27 year olds.
Really need to move past players like Rowe, Graham, Etc

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:56 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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Dominator_7 wrote:
Our issue isn’t the kids we’ve picked up. Most have showed in bits and pieces that they ve got ‘it’.
It’s our youth development, and our strength and conditioning that’s the main issue, along with gameday strategy.
I honestly think that a lot can change if we surround Bolts with the right people in the above mentioned areas. We obviously need people like Blake Caracalla.
What’s obvious also is that we need to be aggressive at trade time and trade away our picks for good 22-27 year olds.
Really need to move past players like Rowe, Graham, Etc


If Caracella ever come to Carlton I'd want him to coach not just waste his time helping Bolton. Bolts isn't up to the task sadly. That's 2 wins now from our last 26 games. Not acceptable for a coach.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:58 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Néed more group hugs
Get everyone together and stand in a circle and hug one another.
They should do it before the game and at half time

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:18 am 
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Craig Bradley
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I actually don't believe our list is as bad as the results they're getting. last night on paper we had a pretty balanced squad, and certainly weren't a 10 goal poorer team than st kilda.


the most indicting moment of bolton's coaching career happened after Kruez went down (wtf, shortness of breath? first marchbank with an elevated heartrate - well duh, he's been running; and now this? is someone taking the piss??? anyway, i digress) ... Bolton's immediate solution was to put Curnow into the ruck, followed by cripps. meanwhile expendable spuds like Jones and Rowe continued to stink it up in the backline and allow their direct man space, freedom and goals. it defies logic that it was allowed to happen for one stoppage, let alone allowed to continue for a whole qtr and a half.

If that is bolton's immediate solution to a problem, it further showcases the guy can't think on his feet and make adjustments on the run. He's an excellent midweek coach, the X's & O's and the tape guy who finds flaws in the opponent ... but as a gameday coach, he is in miles over his head. its' why we get the same rehearsed soundbites at each press conference postgame from BB. each word is thoroughly rehearsed beforehand, bcos he can't think on his feet.


... and to think CFC have enabled him further by taking Craig away and not replacing him. it reeks of shortsightedness and cheapness, at a time when we can ill afford either.


i hope bolton goes, and soon. bcos we're not digging ourselves out of this mess with him at the helm.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:21 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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To suggest our squad last night was "pretty balanced" is laughable. Multiple players playing out of position filling holes. Midfield depth playing defence, no ruckman after 10 minutes.

I love these suggestions that coaches can magically cover the absence of players with tactics and strategies. :lol:
Is it coincidence that the game Adelaide get Rory Atkins, Riley Knight and Eddie betts back into their side (a week after Sloane and Lynch return from long lay offs), they have a win against a top 8 side after losing 5 of 6?
Surprise, Surprise, Lynch kicks 4, Atkins has 28 and Eddie supplies the forward half pressure with 7 tackles.

The team coached by the most successful current coach went to the Gabba this season without Frawley, O'Meara and Rioli and they lose by 56 points. Yet our coach should be sacked when we go up there with half a team.
Yes we are terrible at the moment but have some perspective. Anyone who comments that injuries don't impact performance significantly has no idea about competitive sport.
We are impacted by injuries to key players significantly more than any other team. Fact. Compounding that is the fact we would have the worst depth in the AFL.
Kicking the shit out of the coach might make posters feel better but if anyone thinks a change of coach will bring better results at the moment, they're dreaming.
We don't have the talent on the park. That's it. The best coach in the history of the game won't fix that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:52 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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Blue Vain wrote:
To suggest our squad last night was "pretty balanced" is laughable. Multiple players playing out of position filling holes. Midfield depth playing defence, no ruckman after 10 minutes.

I love these suggestions that coaches can magically cover the absence of players with tactics and strategies. :lol:
Is it coincidence that the game Adelaide get Rory Atkins, Riley Knight and Eddie betts back into their side (a week after Sloane and Lynch return from long lay offs), they have a win against a top 8 side after losing 5 of 6?
Surprise, Surprise, Lynch kicks 4, Atkins has 28 and Eddie supplies the forward half pressure with 7 tackles.

The team coached by the most successful current coach went to the Gabba this season without Frawley, O'Meara and Rioli and they lose by 56 points. Yet our coach should be sacked when we go up there with half a team.
Yes we are terrible at the moment but have some perspective. Anyone who comments that injuries don't impact performance significantly has no idea about competitive sport.
We are impacted by injuries to key players significantly more than any other team. Fact. Compounding that is the fact we would have the worst depth in the AFL.
Kicking the shit out of the coach might make posters feel better but if anyone thinks a change of coach will bring better results at the moment, they're dreaming.
We don't have the talent on the park. That's it. The best coach in the history of the game won't fix that.


I don't disagree with the injuries one bit.

What I do find mind boggling watching the game is positioning. We still have 18 people out there yet there is:
1. never enough in F50 on the odd occasion the ball gets there
2. never enough between the arcs in proactive positions (either ready to counterattack or ready to run offensively)
3. loose men and overlap created at will
4. If we're covering space, why do we concede so many I50 marks/disposals etc?
5. Our midfield is weak BUT, how often do teams waltz out of a stoppage with superior numerical advantage bc our stoppage players leave the contest to go and defend rather than try and win the stoppage (and the opp STILL find a loose target)

It is TV smashing stuff. I can cope with better skilled players beating our players but when you can't even see our players anywhere within 5 metres of the opposition, you wonder WTF is going on

Maybe the stats will contradict my observations but our lack of intensity to run both ways stands out like the proverbials

Your thoughts on this?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:05 am 
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Ken Hunter
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99prelim wrote:

Maybe the stats will contradict my observations but our lack of intensity to run both ways stands out like the proverbials

Your thoughts on this?



No doubt it looks like that/is that at times.

But I wonder if some of the players have the fitness and/or speed to do this throughout the game.

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THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:10 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 15020
grrofunger wrote:
Woeful. Really woeful.

But we can’t sack him. Won’t achieve anything.

We need to surround him with much better people.

We need another Neil Craig type too.

You have to wonder how much impact losing Craig has had.
I agree, sacking him now would achieve nothing but maybe he cannot coach and we need to recognise that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:11 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
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This is a theme that keeps being repeated BV. That anyone critical of the coach isn't taking into account the injuries. It simply isn't true. No one is expecting miracles out there. No one has stated "that injuries don't impact performance significantly". You are setting up strawmen and knocking them down.
Apart from that you make some good points. However, how do injuries prevent players from looking downfield when in possession? instead always looking sideways and backwards; Are their eyes injured in some way? It staggers me how people can't see how defensively we use the ball. That is mindset! That is coaching! or lack of it. What is the message out there?? Is the message to slow play down when we have the ball. Because that is what is actually happening. If that isn't the message then why can't players follow instructions.
And then there is the disaster of what happens when we don't have the ball, our defensive zone is good for a laugh and I fail to see how that that is put down to injuries. It isn't going to magically sort itself out when Docherty and Williamson come back.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:23 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18035
99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
To suggest our squad last night was "pretty balanced" is laughable. Multiple players playing out of position filling holes. Midfield depth playing defence, no ruckman after 10 minutes.

I love these suggestions that coaches can magically cover the absence of players with tactics and strategies. :lol:
Is it coincidence that the game Adelaide get Rory Atkins, Riley Knight and Eddie betts back into their side (a week after Sloane and Lynch return from long lay offs), they have a win against a top 8 side after losing 5 of 6?
Surprise, Surprise, Lynch kicks 4, Atkins has 28 and Eddie supplies the forward half pressure with 7 tackles.

The team coached by the most successful current coach went to the Gabba this season without Frawley, O'Meara and Rioli and they lose by 56 points. Yet our coach should be sacked when we go up there with half a team.
Yes we are terrible at the moment but have some perspective. Anyone who comments that injuries don't impact performance significantly has no idea about competitive sport.
We are impacted by injuries to key players significantly more than any other team. Fact. Compounding that is the fact we would have the worst depth in the AFL.
Kicking the shit out of the coach might make posters feel better but if anyone thinks a change of coach will bring better results at the moment, they're dreaming.
We don't have the talent on the park. That's it. The best coach in the history of the game won't fix that.


I don't disagree with the injuries one bit.

What I do find mind boggling watching the game is positioning. We still have 18 people out there yet there is:
1. never enough in F50 on the odd occasion the ball gets there
2. never enough between the arcs in proactive positions (either ready to counterattack or ready to run offensively)
3. loose men and overlap created at will
4. If we're covering space, why do we concede so many I50 marks/disposals etc?
5. Our midfield is weak BUT, how often do teams waltz out of a stoppage with superior numerical advantage bc our stoppage players leave the contest to go and defend rather than try and win the stoppage (and the opp STILL find a loose target)

It is TV smashing stuff. I can cope with better skilled players beating our players but when you can't even see our players anywhere within 5 metres of the opposition, you wonder WTF is going on

Maybe the stats will contradict my observations but our lack of intensity to run both ways stands out like the proverbials

Your thoughts on this?


I agree with the frustration but look at the team at the moment. How many last night would you have in our best 22 on current form?
I'd suggest Curnow x 2, Cripps, Fisher, Simpson, (O'Brien, SPS, McKay and Dow for experience), Murphy, Marchbank, Fisher. Kreuzer lasted 10 minutes so he's not included. That's 12 and it includes a number of youngsters who I've included generously for the future but most contribute very little on a consistent basis. Murphy has missed about 10 games, Marchbank is coming back from about 5 weeks out. 6 of the remaining best 12 are first or second year players who have at best 1 pre-season under their belt.

I agree there are never enough forwards but they're pushing back to assist the defence. Look how many goals our makeshift defenders conceded last night. Lamb, Thomas, Rowe, Silvagni with their lack of forward craft.
As for teams waltzing out of clearances, look at our ruck options last night. Charlie Curnow, McKay, Jones!
Between no ruckman and a 3rd string defence. They kicked 13.9 from forward half intercepts or forward half stoppages. What can you do about that other than push players back to support which reduces our opportunity to score.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:28 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Bolton has been implementing his game plan for 3 years.
Bolton has changed the players and be given an opportunity to teach them his way.
If our group of players don’t understand it by now and can’t plug into multiple roles, then I question the coaching. Last 2 weeks our players have looked lost more than inexperienced.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:32 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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smithy wrote:
And then there is the disaster of what happens when we don't have the ball, our defensive zone is good for a laugh and I fail to see how that that is put down to injuries. It isn't going to magically sort itself out when Docherty and Williamson come back.


Really? Docherty, Williamson, Plowman, Ciaran Byrne, Alex Silvagni or even Weitering?
You don't think they'll be better equipped as defenders than Rowe, Lamb, Thomas, Jack Silvagni, Shaw who have probably played a total of 10 games in defence for us before this season. Coaches like Clarkson talk about lack of cohesion when one of 2 defenders are missing. What chance do our team have?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:37 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Bolton is the first coach we have got through a serious process instead of jobs for the boys or overpaid hasbeen. Sacking him won't help. He may not be the man but needs another couple of years and a new Neil Craig. We are 6 top players and a good run with injury from being a quality side. I'd be looking very hard at the list manager, particularly his judgement in bringing in O'Shea mullet Shaw, and also the ceo's absurd decision to turn our back on a pp at end of first round. We are headed for one the worst seasons in history from any side. Why would any rational human turn down a top 20 pick in a super draft?.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:45 am 
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Ken Hunter
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gerry atric wrote:
Why would any rational human turn down a top 20 pick in a super draft?.




???

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THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:50 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Bolton could still end up a genius who tanked and yes after the last 2 weeks I still have doubts, but it keeps me sane. Well....


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:00 am 
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Harry Vallence
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If you don’t blame Bolts for injuries and depth selections, then can he and the cone movers who would take an assistants job under him, at least be blamed for not coaching basic skills and decision making?
Can we coax Neil Craig back to babysit?
Personally I’d chase Paul Roos to do a classic root and branch of footy dept before the draft and end of season hard decisions.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:02 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Blue Vain wrote:
smithy wrote:
And then there is the disaster of what happens when we don't have the ball, our defensive zone is good for a laugh and I fail to see how that that is put down to injuries. It isn't going to magically sort itself out when Docherty and Williamson come back.


Really? Docherty, Williamson, Plowman, Ciaran Byrne, Alex Silvagni or even Weitering?
You don't think they'll be better equipped as defenders than Rowe, Lamb, Thomas, Jack Silvagni, Shaw who have probably played a total of 10 games in defence for us before this season. Coaches like Clarkson talk about lack of cohesion when one of 2 defenders are missing. What chance do our team have?


You're seriously overrating the ability of 5 of those 6. If SOJ, Lamb, Rowe or Thomas were injured, you'd have them listed too.

It's not the playing group so much as the plan.

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