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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2651
Nick wrote:
Anyone hear the Age podcast ? Caro suggesting Ross Lyon will seek to get out of his contract earlier than 2020 and join Carlton. Based on "gut feel".


Why because we haven't had enough of our share of neanderthals.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I've had a look at our age profiles since Round 1 2002 (where it all began). Makes for some interesting reading. Not sure we can really use age as an excuse for where we're at.

Average age of the team by coach:

Malthouse 25.50
Brittain 25.37
Barker 25.13
Bolton 24.82
Pagan 24.21
Ratten 23.89

Bolton's teams average age by year:

2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Oldest side:

Round 5 2014 (Malthouse) v Bulldogs 26.25
Carlton 119 def Bulldogs 91

Youngest side:

Round 22 2007 (Ratten - Kreuzer Cup) v Melbourne 22.25
Melbourne 139 def Carlton 108

Youngest winning side:

Round 9 2008 (Ratten) v Fremantle 22.87
Carlton 97 def Fremantle 88

Average age by year:

2002 25.37
2003 25.06
2004 23.64
2005 24.35
2006 24.13
2007 23.54 (23.05 during tanking)
2008 23.19
2009 23.69
2010 23.68
2011 24.43
2012 24.66
2013 25.41
2014 25.60
2015 25.28
2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Compare the 25+ year old players from the Ratten years to Boltons 25+yo's.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Posts: 1170
redback wrote:
Nick wrote:
Anyone hear the Age podcast ? Caro suggesting Ross Lyon will seek to get out of his contract earlier than 2020 and join Carlton. Based on "gut feel".


Why because we haven't had enough of our share of neanderthals.


Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Bolton. See a pattern here? Novice coach fails, appoint a dinosaur, he fails, back to a novice, he fails... Rinse and repeat. Looks like Ross is a motser to be next coach.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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verbs wrote:
I've had a look at our age profiles since Round 1 2002 (where it all began). Makes for some interesting reading. Not sure we can really use age as an excuse for where we're at.

Average age of the team by coach:

Malthouse 25.50
Brittain 25.37
Barker 25.13
Bolton 24.82
Pagan 24.21
Ratten 23.89

Bolton's teams average age by year:

2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Oldest side:

Round 5 2014 (Malthouse) v Bulldogs 26.25
Carlton 119 def Bulldogs 91

Youngest side:

Round 22 2007 (Ratten - Kreuzer Cup) v Melbourne 22.25
Melbourne 139 def Carlton 108

Youngest winning side:

Round 9 2008 (Ratten) v Fremantle 22.87
Carlton 97 def Fremantle 88

Average age by year:

2002 25.37
2003 25.06
2004 23.64
2005 24.35
2006 24.13
2007 23.54 (23.05 during tanking)
2008 23.19
2009 23.69
2010 23.68
2011 24.43
2012 24.66
2013 25.41
2014 25.60
2015 25.28
2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Take out Simmo and Thomas and the average age drops to about 18.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:11 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Blue Sombrero wrote:
verbs wrote:
I've had a look at our age profiles since Round 1 2002 (where it all began). Makes for some interesting reading. Not sure we can really use age as an excuse for where we're at.

Average age of the team by coach:

Malthouse 25.50
Brittain 25.37
Barker 25.13
Bolton 24.82
Pagan 24.21
Ratten 23.89

Bolton's teams average age by year:

2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Oldest side:

Round 5 2014 (Malthouse) v Bulldogs 26.25
Carlton 119 def Bulldogs 91

Youngest side:

Round 22 2007 (Ratten - Kreuzer Cup) v Melbourne 22.25
Melbourne 139 def Carlton 108

Youngest winning side:

Round 9 2008 (Ratten) v Fremantle 22.87
Carlton 97 def Fremantle 88

Average age by year:

2002 25.37
2003 25.06
2004 23.64
2005 24.35
2006 24.13
2007 23.54 (23.05 during tanking)
2008 23.19
2009 23.69
2010 23.68
2011 24.43
2012 24.66
2013 25.41
2014 25.60
2015 25.28
2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Take out Simmo and Thomas and the average age drops to about 18.


And take Rowe out and the average drops to pre-pubescent

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:11 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Blue Sombrero wrote:
verbs wrote:
I've had a look at our age profiles since Round 1 2002 (where it all began). Makes for some interesting reading. Not sure we can really use age as an excuse for where we're at.

Average age of the team by coach:

Malthouse 25.50
Brittain 25.37
Barker 25.13
Bolton 24.82
Pagan 24.21
Ratten 23.89

Bolton's teams average age by year:

2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Oldest side:

Round 5 2014 (Malthouse) v Bulldogs 26.25
Carlton 119 def Bulldogs 91

Youngest side:

Round 22 2007 (Ratten - Kreuzer Cup) v Melbourne 22.25
Melbourne 139 def Carlton 108

Youngest winning side:

Round 9 2008 (Ratten) v Fremantle 22.87
Carlton 97 def Fremantle 88

Average age by year:

2002 25.37
2003 25.06
2004 23.64
2005 24.35
2006 24.13
2007 23.54 (23.05 during tanking)
2008 23.19
2009 23.69
2010 23.68
2011 24.43
2012 24.66
2013 25.41
2014 25.60
2015 25.28
2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Take out Simmo and Thomas and the average age drops to about 18.


And take Rowe out and the average drops to pre-pubescent

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:19 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I think we can only take Row out once.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:02 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
Blue Sombrero wrote:
I think we can only take Row out once.


Thought I'd take him out twice just to be absolutely sure he's gone

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:35 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8214
cortez wrote:
redback wrote:
Nick wrote:
Anyone hear the Age podcast ? Caro suggesting Ross Lyon will seek to get out of his contract earlier than 2020 and join Carlton. Based on "gut feel".


Why because we haven't had enough of our share of neanderthals.


Brittain, Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Bolton. See a pattern here? Novice coach fails, appoint a dinosaur, he fails, back to a novice, he fails... Rinse and repeat. Looks like Ross is a motser to be next coach.


Every when they do work, as it did to a pretty reasonable extent with Ratten, we appoint a dinosaur anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:44 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8214
camelboy wrote:


https://twitter.com/TalkingCarlton/stat ... 6850441216

Kane Cornes picking the low-hanging fruit.


Sadly with Victorian clubs it has 100% bad failure rate appointing coaches that have never played. Of course, since 2001, we've either picked a coach that has never played or a dinosaur. All failed miserably. interestingly, the only one we appointed who was younger and had AFL experience, alot as a star, was the one that did pretty well.

McCartney was the previous coach to coach without AFL experience. They were worse than us in 2014. Chopped during their rebuild. Appoint Beveridge, 2 years later, premiers.

Problem, AFL boy's club culture still dictates....."it's alright for him to be demanding so much of us when he just sits in the coaching box never having done it himself".


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:52 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Posts: 23924
I think it is a problem that Kane Cornes is on radio, and especially in Melbourne.
#pi$$orfcornesyoutosser

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
verbs wrote:
I've had a look at our age profiles since Round 1 2002 (where it all began). Makes for some interesting reading. Not sure we can really use age as an excuse for where we're at.

Average age of the team by coach:

Malthouse 25.50
Brittain 25.37
Barker 25.13
Bolton 24.82
Pagan 24.21
Ratten 23.89

Bolton's teams average age by year:

2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Oldest side:

Round 5 2014 (Malthouse) v Bulldogs 26.25
Carlton 119 def Bulldogs 91

Youngest side:

Round 22 2007 (Ratten - Kreuzer Cup) v Melbourne 22.25
Melbourne 139 def Carlton 108

Youngest winning side:

Round 9 2008 (Ratten) v Fremantle 22.87
Carlton 97 def Fremantle 88

Average age by year:

2002 25.37
2003 25.06
2004 23.64
2005 24.35
2006 24.13
2007 23.54 (23.05 during tanking)
2008 23.19
2009 23.69
2010 23.68
2011 24.43
2012 24.66
2013 25.41
2014 25.60
2015 25.28
2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58


What would make more interesting reading is average games played.

As easy it is to look at age and experience to find the cause of our current position, like everything in life the answer is just not that simple.

Take a look at Brisbane who we have been compared with, they look so much better than we do because they have been able to settle on a structure and teach the young kids how to play their position. They also recruited Hodge to act as an on field coach to accelerate their development.

How do you think Brisbane would be going if they had to play inexperienced player in different role every week as a makeshift team because of the injuries. To put it in perspective we have had zero games this year with no changes and only 2 games without players lost to injury, compare that to brisbane with 4 games on no changes and 9 games without injury.

Brisbane injury list - 5
Carlton injury list - 15

I know that this is just an excuse, so lets put this in perspective. How do you think whatever business you are working for was to change everyone position every week and what impact that would have on it's customers, sales and profitability?

Pretty sure I would not want the janitor performing my surgery....


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Blisstonia.
Steve_C7 wrote:
verbs wrote:
I've had a look at our age profiles since Round 1 2002 (where it all began). Makes for some interesting reading. Not sure we can really use age as an excuse for where we're at.

Average age of the team by coach:

Malthouse 25.50
Brittain 25.37
Barker 25.13
Bolton 24.82
Pagan 24.21
Ratten 23.89

Bolton's teams average age by year:

2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58

Oldest side:

Round 5 2014 (Malthouse) v Bulldogs 26.25
Carlton 119 def Bulldogs 91

Youngest side:

Round 22 2007 (Ratten - Kreuzer Cup) v Melbourne 22.25
Melbourne 139 def Carlton 108

Youngest winning side:

Round 9 2008 (Ratten) v Fremantle 22.87
Carlton 97 def Fremantle 88

Average age by year:

2002 25.37
2003 25.06
2004 23.64
2005 24.35
2006 24.13
2007 23.54 (23.05 during tanking)
2008 23.19
2009 23.69
2010 23.68
2011 24.43
2012 24.66
2013 25.41
2014 25.60
2015 25.28
2016 25.24
2017 24.56
2018 24.58


What would make more interesting reading is average games played.

As easy it is to look at age and experience to find the cause of our current position, like everything in life the answer is just not that simple.

Take a look at Brisbane who we have been compared with, they look so much better than we do because they have been able to settle on a structure and teach the young kids how to play their position. They also recruited Hodge to act as an on field coach to accelerate their development.

How do you think Brisbane would be going if they had to play inexperienced player in different role every week as a makeshift team because of the injuries. To put it in perspective we have had zero games this year with no changes and only 2 games without players lost to injury, compare that to brisbane with 4 games on no changes and 9 games without injury.

Brisbane injury list - 5
Carlton injury list - 15

I know that this is just an excuse, so lets put this in perspective. How do you think whatever business you are working for was to change everyone position every week and what impact that would have on it's customers, sales and profitability?

Pretty sure I would not want the janitor performing my surgery....


Yeah, but what if you're only going in for a clean up?

....I'll see myself out. :oops:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I feel the biggest problem is, anyone under 23 is "developing their craft". Junior players, despite being played every week, are going into every game as a learning experience so they can "develop their craft" rather than going out there to dazzle, back themselves and create like they did in junior games. Top draft picks were selected in the elite portion of the draft because they were the best talent. Then they get to Carlton and are possibly made to feel like dunces who need to play 70 games before they can understand what it takes to play AFL footy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Posts: 28227
verbs wrote:
I feel the biggest problem is, anyone under 23 is "developing their craft". Junior players, despite being played every week, are going into every game as a learning experience so they can "develop their craft" rather than going out there to dazzle, back themselves and create like they did in junior games. Top draft picks were selected in the elite portion of the draft because they were the best talent. Then they get to Carlton and are possibly made to feel like dunces who need to play 70 games before they can understand what it takes to play AFL footy.


The danger of having so many coaches with an emphasis on defence is the players get too defensive.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8214
bluegirl72 wrote:
I think it is a problem that Kane Cornes is on radio, and especially in Melbourne.
#pi$$orfcornesyoutosser


As much as we don't have much love for Kane Cornes, there's no point always shooting the messenger either as I don't think he is wrong. Seems to have been issues with coaches that have never played. Shouldn't be but history seems to indicate otherwise.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Posts: 35135
jim wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
I think it is a problem that Kane Cornes is on radio, and especially in Melbourne.
#pi$$orfcornesyoutosser


As much as we don't have much love for Kane Cornes, there's no point always shooting the messenger either as I don't think he is wrong. Seems to have been issues with coaches that have never played. Shouldn't be but history seems to indicate otherwise.


How many coaches have there actually been that haven't played at the highest level anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I think Richo sums it up pretty well....

https://www.3aw.com.au/matthew-richards ... r-carlton/


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 4584
Location: Blisstonia.
Wojee wrote:
jim wrote:
bluegirl72 wrote:
I think it is a problem that Kane Cornes is on radio, and especially in Melbourne.
#pi$$orfcornesyoutosser


As much as we don't have much love for Kane Cornes, there's no point always shooting the messenger either as I don't think he is wrong. Seems to have been issues with coaches that have never played. Shouldn't be but history seems to indicate otherwise.


How many coaches have there actually been that haven't played at the highest level anyway.


Been around in circles with jim on this one before. No proof either way whether it's a factor. Young players all seem in a hurry to re-sign so they dont seem to think it's an issue.

Ironically the coach who put him under all this pressure this week, didn't have the most stellar AFL career!

The fact that Hardwick, Thompson, Clarkson, and then Buckley went from being near sacked to geniuses had nothing to do with the boys suddenly plowing through youtube and realising they actually played at the highest level.

To satisfy some on here we should replace Bolts with Aaron Sandilands. 7ft 2, and 265 games. What credentials! :razz:

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