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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:14 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... be9f0e2a1a

Interesting look at it

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:47 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Sydney Blue wrote:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-players-overcoached-not-lacking-effort-v-fremantle/news-story/0daf9d045880cbe460a79bbe9f0e2a1a

Interesting look at it


That report last night was intriguing.

He said...Once kids gain more experience, and feel for the pace of the game and opposition and become stronger and quicker they will be able to turn that around pretty quickly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:59 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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bondiblue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-players-overcoached-not-lacking-effort-v-fremantle/news-story/0daf9d045880cbe460a79bbe9f0e2a1a

Interesting look at it


That report last night was intriguing.

He said...Once kids gain more experience, and feel for the pace of the game and opposition and become stronger and quicker they will be able to turn that around pretty quickly.


But, but, I thought we had the same number or less kids than Fremantle does?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:24 am 
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Harry Vallence

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I went back and had a look at our 6 wins last year.
RND 3 - Essendon**
RND 6- SYDNEY
RND 7 - COLLINGWOOD
RND 12- GWS
RND 13- SUNS
RND 22- HAWKS

Interesting to note Tom Williamson played in all 6 wins.
Doc played in all 6 wins.
Marchbank played in 5 out of 6 wins
Alex Sos played in 3 out of 6 wins

We have missed all 4 players badly this year. In particular our run off HB with Doc and Williamson.
Marchbank went down in one of our early games , played injured after that and never recovered his form. He has been a big loss.
Alex Sos hasnt played all year.
Some perspective needed. Our backline looks nothing like it could/will look like when we are winning matches.


**Gibbs and Murphy both played in all 6 wins last year.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:13 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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daggs001 wrote:
I went back and had a look at our 6 wins last year.
RND 3 - Essendon***
RND 6- SYDNEY
RND 7 - COLLINGWOOD
RND 12- GWS
RND 13- SUNS
RND 22- HAWKS

Interesting to note Tom Williamson played in all 6 wins.
Doc played in all 6 wins.
Marchbank played in 5 out of 6 wins
Alex Sos played in 3 out of 6 wins

We have missed all 4 players badly this year. In particular our run off HB with Doc and Williamson.
Marchbank went down in one of our early games , played injured after that and never recovered his form. He has been a big loss.
Alex Sos hasnt played all year.
Some perspective needed. Our backline looks nothing like it could/will look like when we are winning matches.


**Gibbs and Murphy both played in all 6 wins last year.


Exactly. :thumbsup:

Everyone knew we couldn't afford injuries as we lacked depth.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Interesting take on last week's game.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... be9f0e2a1a


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Suggesting it's "overcoaching" is ridiculous. Yes players are coached to push up to the loose player but the timing is the issue.
They needed to leave their player earlier to impact the contest. Kreuzer has no excuse but O'Brien is a kid learning the game. It's what also catches Liam Jones out occasionally. But when Jones makes the contest, which he does mores as he learns the caper, it's a great outcome.
There were probably 100+ cases of players doing it successfully on the weekend. Pulling out 2 cases where it didn't is lazy, over judgemental @#$%&! journalism in the David King mould.
Then to suggest it's overcoaching compounds the stupidity.

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Blue Vain wrote:
Suggesting it's "overcoaching" is ridiculous. Yes players are coached to push up to the loose player but the timing is the issue.
They needed to leave their player earlier to impact the contest. Kreuzer has no excuse but O'Brien is a kid learning the game. It's what also catches Liam Jones out occasionally. But when Jones makes the contest, it's a great outcome.
There was probably 50+ cases of players doing it successfully on the weekend. Pulling out 2 cases where it didn't is lazy @#$%&! journalism in the David King mould.
Then to suggest it's overcoaching compounds the stupidity.


Agree 100% :clap:

Providing media articles, statistics etc to back up "arguments" and/or support opinions isn't really useful. Any of these can be moulded to suit the persons argument or opinion. so they hold little to no weight IMO.

Fact of the matter is none of us know exactly what Bolton is coaching the team to do. None of us know what he is saying to them etc etc. Its guesswork and that shits me too!

It would nice to see some logical arguments with balance occasionally, but the problem is that does not seem to suit many peoples agendas.....

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Blue Vain wrote:
Suggesting it's "overcoaching" is ridiculous. Yes players are coached to push up to the loose player but the timing is the issue.
They needed to leave their player earlier to impact the contest. Kreuzer has no excuse but O'Brien is a kid learning the game. It's what also catches Liam Jones out occasionally. But when Jones makes the contest, which he does mores as he learns the caper, it's a great outcome.
There were probably 100+ cases of players doing it successfully on the weekend. Pulling out 2 cases where it didn't is lazy, over judgemental @#$%&! journalism in the David King mould.
Then to suggest it's overcoaching compounds the stupidity.
They lost me straight away... We were already outnumbered on the wing before Kruezer had any hope of getting there.

Probably why Kruze took off to get there.....

That is why they won the ball there... They had the entire 50 to spread, lead into etc. regardless.

Montagna's analysis there is a bit simplistic. To give him the benefit of the doubt, it is likely they keep it simple for their audience

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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“Carlton defenders didn’t know who to play on because they were trying to plug so many holes,”

In Montagna’s defence that is his specialty subject.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Teehee

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:16 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I think Charlie's 5 yrs is a big tick for Bolts.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:35 pm 
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formerly King Kenny
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Cazzesman wrote:
I think Charlie's 5 yrs is a big tick for Bolts.

Regards Cazzesman


And the rest of the kids


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:05 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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GWS wrote:
“Carlton defenders didn’t know who to play on because they were trying to plug so many holes,”

In Montagna’s defence that is his specialty subject.
In the words of Mike Moore from Frontline... 'wow huh.... I'm not touching that one'

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Braithy wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
It's still only around a goal a quarter



we're at 60% on the ladder. that's as bad as it gets.

I was waiting for this.
It's the damning stat that doesn't show in 1-11 or the honourable loss column.

We are last on the ladder and have scored slightly more than half the points our opponents have scored.

It's a long way to the top from there if you want to rock and roll.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Heavs wrote:
The losses don't look bad as stats but they fail the eye test pretty bad. I reckon there have been 4 games we've realistically been 'in' after 1/4 time this year.

But seriously, was anyone expecting us to make the 8 or win the flag this year? I wasn't. I'm just hopeful we are building some solid foundations rather than chasing cheap sugar hits. Changing what we're doing now would be silly - we'd just have to appoint a new coach who would want 'his list', would turn over 40 odd players and we'd go through the same shit. The folk in charge bought the vision, now we have to stay the course and trust the process.



i think we wanted to be on an upward trajectory. Win a game or two more than last season, and totally apply ourselves for each and every game. this year the effort has been lacking.

Bolton has failed in that regard.


And bringing in a new coach doesn't mean we're back at ground zero. there is plenty of young players here to work with, and there's plenty of deadwood to clear out - around half the list.

there'd be a few good coaches around that would love to sink their teeth into what we have here should we can bolton.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Thu, 1st Feb 2018

http://aflnation.com.au/2018/02/01/are- ... heartache/

Are Carlton looking at another season of heartache?
AFL Nation - Thu, 1st Feb 2018 - 0 Comments

Champion Data expert Glenn Luff believes Carlton could be set for another difficult season in 2018, possibly falling down the ladder.

The Blues finished 16th in 2017, only ahead of the Gold Coast Suns and wooden spooners the Brisbane Lions.

Speaking to Sportsday, Luff explained why Blues fans should not expect a rapid rise any time soon.

“I think there’s every chance down a bit more,” Luff said.

“We’ve got Carlton with one elite player and that’s Sam Docherty… He won’t be there.”

As well as losing Docherty to a season-ending knee injury, Carlton will also be without Bryce Gibbs, who was traded to Adelaide at the end of last season.

In order to improve in 2018, Luff believes Carlton need to work on keeping the ball in their forward half.

He added: “We talk about the territory game and playing the ball in your half, well they don’t play the game in their half.

“They need to be able to generate more entries and get a bigger score on the board because they were ranked 18th for points for (in 2017).”

On Wednesday, the Blues announced an eight-man leadership group, led by Marc Murphy.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Territory game....a bit hard when Pickett gets injured on the eve of the season too.

We had a relatively good run with injuries in Bolton's first two years (although Cripps injury last year and Murphy the year before exposed the lack of depth).

This year has been shocking with regard to injuries.

It doesn't explain everything but it explains a lot of it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
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Braithy wrote:
Heavs wrote:
The losses don't look bad as stats but they fail the eye test pretty bad. I reckon there have been 4 games we've realistically been 'in' after 1/4 time this year.

But seriously, was anyone expecting us to make the 8 or win the flag this year? I wasn't. I'm just hopeful we are building some solid foundations rather than chasing cheap sugar hits. Changing what we're doing now would be silly - we'd just have to appoint a new coach who would want 'his list', would turn over 40 odd players and we'd go through the same shit. The folk in charge bought the vision, now we have to stay the course and trust the process.



i think we wanted to be on an upward trajectory. Win a game or two more than last season, and totally apply ourselves for each and every game. this year the effort has been lacking.

Bolton has failed in that regard.


And bringing in a new coach doesn't mean we're back at ground zero. there is plenty of young players here to work with, and there's plenty of deadwood to clear out - around half the list.

there'd be a few good coaches around that would love to sink their teeth into what we have here should we can bolton.


Who do you want to replace Bolton with, then?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Cazzesman wrote:
I think Charlie's 5 yrs is a big tick for Bolts.

Regards Cazzesman

It's a big tick for the entire club.
I posted elsewhere that I think this should convince the hard core doubters that the players are behind the rebuild.
When Cripps signs, it will be another massive vote of confidence.

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