This I agree with. It will all come down to what they want to prioritise. Having said that the focus seems to be on picking a side to win. In that scenario, Kreuzer is the better choice for me. Phillips can work on his tank at the next level.

If Kreuzer isn't offering much why not give Phillips senior experience to learn from ?

What a boring debate

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

A more fun debate: Will SOSOS play this week???
I am sure he already knows either way. Any inside info?

I hope his dad has taken the time to temper expectations, play down the event, keep an even keel.... and then played him a video of his mark fo the year against Collingwood from 1988!!!

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=11774

PS. Would be a nice touch to bring Dillon Buckley into the team as well so he can stand under Jack when he takes a screamer (just like his dad did in 1988...)

✔.....!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

Given that they are both physically mature, it should very much be about refining the stoppage setup and the midfield/forward structure. Why not drop one so we can bring in a youngster to integrate?

Furthermore, which ruck would you drop: the one who can jump high but does no ground level work, or the one who can ruck and can do ground level work? Which one is actually closer to the ideal for the structures?

If we're talking 4 years down the track, both would be eligible for any push (however I think it won't take that long if we're serious about it).


Feel free to offer an alternative, otherwise:

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

If he is the future then I agree entirely. But in doing so, Cas has to spend a lot more time in the ruck than what he would with Kreuz. If the philosophy is results then Casboult needs to spend more time forward.

Given Lachie Peaheart has left us, I'd like to get back to discussing whether GIBBS should be played across HB or HF or indaguts
Those were the days

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Gibbs and Cripps are the only midfielders extracting the ball at the moment. I wouldn't be moving Gibbs.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

On the contrary.
You're still missing the point.
I can't believe you don't get it.

You're sticking up tables to prove your point.
Now, what is it you're trying to show from that table?
Is there something related to your point on Gorringe and me?
I don't see my name on that table, nor Gorringe's.

Footy is much more complicated than a bunch of statistics.
I've said that before.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Out: Sumner, Everrit

In: Silvagni, Graham

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Graham is a liability at AFL level and has done nothing at VFL level to earn a return. Sumner to stay.
It is more interesting to note that on the CFC website they highlight DVR's game on the weekend. Is this an indicator he is nearing his first game at AFL level?

Just finished watching the Carlton Pies game this year.
Have an 8 yr old son at home who is not feeling well, and that was his choice.

We were up and about. In their face. Relentless pressure for 4 quarters.
Casboult's marking was the feature of the game.
Simpson sensational with good support from Docherty and Byrne.
Cripps Gibbs Curnow dominant in the guts for whole game.
Murphy loose on the outside was a great link up.
Armfield's pressure on the backmen as a HF was a weapon.
Kerridge Wright and Lamb stood up and pressured for 4 quarters.
Everitt's return game and kicked 3 goals, as did Casboult.
Weitering out injured. Rowe really was strong and beat Cox and Grundy when not in the ruck.

Kruezer was fit and firing. The Kreuzer we love to see playing ruck rover as he did against Geelong.
Too strong for Grundy and did OK against the bigger Cox.
He didn't look in that shape last few weeks.
Last week I watched Kreuzer follow Mumford around the ground labouring.
Long season, wear and tear. Rucking too long?

Interesting in the 3rd, Casboult taking the ruck in the centre a few times.
Lost the ball in the centre square whilst Casboult rucked as Pies cleared ball and scored 4 goals in the 3rd from middle.
Casboult got beaten by Grundy.

Whilst Kreuzer was playing FF, he didn't really stand out let alone take any possessions.
Ironically, it was when Casboult floated forward playing as the ruck, whilst Kreuzer was there, that he took 2 marks for 2 shots at goal.
We leaked goals when Casboult was in the ruck ala Gorringe.

We will miss Murphy and Armfield this week. Boekhurst would be handy.
Have to apply the same front on pressure to win. Don't give them space.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Just because he was on the ground doesn't mean he played well jimmae.
He laboured around the ground last weekend. Maybe playing too long in the ruck, chasing butt, it doesn't help him.
Have a look at how many marks we got from him. He tagged Mumford FFS, not the other way around.

The point I make is that he's useless as a forward and if he rucks too long he fatigues as do others and then isn't as effective as we need. It may help him with his deficiency, marking. I don't know.

The other point I'm making is that when we compare him to other 'elite' rucks who are on the ground for the same or longer, eg Goldstein their output is worth considering, Kreuzer doesn't come close and we need to bridge the gap.

Kreuzer is the best we've got, but he needs support.

I like Kreuzer, and believe his best is behind him. He is no longer the great white hope. He needs support because he fatigues when in the ruck too long, but prefer he doesn't rob the forwardline of Casboult for that support, hence 2 rucks till we get a ruck who can produce like Goldstein. The 2nd ruck should be developing his craft this year in the seniors where we expect him to learn faster. I think Philips should be that player when fit. That's all.

Kreuzer went in and out of the ruck 4 times in the 3rd quarter against the Pies. He didn't ruck for a long time. He was fatigued. He needed support. He went forward and didn't do anything. Cassboult went the ruck and he got beaten by Grundy.

This week we play Pies agai. I hope Kreuzer gets support from a ruckman not forward, and we beat them again.

Now what's with the smart arse reference to Gorringe in your previous post? I don't get it or you. You're all over the place.

I'm done. I've made my point...enough. Apologies to other posters, and thanks for responding jimmae but I can't keep going around in circles.

You win if that makes you feel better.

Catch you all after the game.

Go Bluebaggers

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

+1

Our bigger issue is not with Phillips' rate of development as a ruckman, it's more about Kruezer's contribution in a game. This is putting more pressure on AP to pick up the slack
Haven't checked the stats but anecdotally, I can't see one area where MK>>AP
MK is verging on being a liability at the minute. Is it form or injury???

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

The stats are literally on this page, and do not suggest he is at all a liability. They compare favourably with rucks of his style (Grundy, Martin, etc) when he is afforded the same game time spread.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Pages wasted arguing about the least important position on the ground. Get with the times, people...

In 5 of the 6 games highlighted, he took 1 or less marks for the game Jim. Nowhere near good enough when he's averaging over 70% game time.
Kreuz isnt good enough to play as a tap ruckman without making a contribution around the ground or up forward. I love his workmate and his effort but he needs to add more to his game.

With regard to comparing Kruezer with Grundy and Martin, which aspects are you seeing that he compares favourably? Most areas of significance I'm looking at, both players have him covered.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

This is the week I expect that SOS jnr (young Jack) is brought in. Get ready for it folks. It will be the start of a new dynasty.

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Silvagni