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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Blueboy if you keep making sense we will have to ban you from this board :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:45 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14944
blueboy23 wrote:
People jumped at trading players just because the wanke$& wanna be afl player junornlists say so, makes me laugh!!!
Let's trade Henderson and Yarran, good idea because John Ralph and Damien Barrett say so!!
Why not build through the draft and if it takes 5 years so be it!!
Pick 1 or 2 plus another pick around 20, let's build with that.
We have a few injuries and untried players like Dillon Rainbow, Nick Holmen, Cameron Giles and the Irish boys.
Delist the list cloggers and for once let's take our time like other clubs.
Henderson is our only forward and Yarran is by far our best ball user.
Jaksch, Whiley and Boekhorst should be playing also.
Lets just take a deep breath and ignore flog opinions from David king and co..
We have a long way to go but trading players also rips the club apart..
Just my silly opinion kids..

+1


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
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Gotta trade em all.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:09 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
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Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
Patrick Keane ‏@AFL_PKeane

Carlton has placed Robert Warnock on the long-term injury list, with no replacement named from the rookie list at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:12 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14944
Just watch us become the laughing stock of the competition, (if we aren't already).
We will lose our only decent KPP in Henderson and sign up Warnock.
I just don't understand what is going on.


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 Post subject: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:14 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am
Posts: 35135
dane wrote:
Gotta trade em all.


Pokemon TC style.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:04 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train
Blue Vain wrote:
We seem to have developed a philosophy of primarily drafting/trading in players who have already developed their skills and physical qualities.
Isn't that what football clubs and coaches are for? To develop skills, address deficiencies and improve physical capability. :?
We seem too willing to piss someone off if they aren't at the standard we require. It appears to me we've lost the concept of what development is about. Not just the practicality but the inclination of implementing real "coaching" appears to have fallen off the map. You can't keep giving away players and compromising our position in the draft to supplement that philosophy.

If we aren't going to take the time to work with players, improve their capabilities and develop them in general, we should @#$%&! all the coaches off and bring in a football department head who understands the actual concept of coaching. Too many easy rides at Carlton over the past couple of years for under performing football staff IMHO. The role of the coach doesn't begin and end when the umpire blows the whistle on match day.


..too much recent history of buying in the best, over developing our own..

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:26 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
Go to the draft for the next 3 years and get kids kids and kids. It will also help solve our Salary Cap issues and allow us to recruit top players when we are back near the top.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:32 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10495
kezza wrote:
blueboy23 wrote:
People jumped at trading players just because the wanke$& wanna be afl player junornlists say so, makes me laugh!!!
Let's trade Henderson and Yarran, good idea because John Ralph and Damien Barrett say so!!
Why not build through the draft and if it takes 5 years so be it!!
Pick 1 or 2 plus another pick around 20, let's build with that.
We have a few injuries and untried players like Dillon Rainbow, Nick Holmen, Cameron Giles and the Irish boys.
Delist the list cloggers and for once let's take our time like other clubs.
Henderson is our only forward and Yarran is by far our best ball user.
Jaksch, Whiley and Boekhorst should be playing also.
Lets just take a deep breath and ignore flog opinions from David king and co..
We have a long way to go but trading players also rips the club apart..
Just my silly opinion kids..

+1


Great post! +2 & :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:41 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 4678
Location: Melbourne
SurreyBlue wrote:
kezza wrote:
blueboy23 wrote:
People jumped at trading players just because the wanke$& wanna be afl player junornlists say so, makes me laugh!!!
Let's trade Henderson and Yarran, good idea because John Ralph and Damien Barrett say so!!
Why not build through the draft and if it takes 5 years so be it!!
Pick 1 or 2 plus another pick around 20, let's build with that.
We have a few injuries and untried players like Dillon Rainbow, Nick Holmen, Cameron Giles and the Irish boys.
Delist the list cloggers and for once let's take our time like other clubs.
Henderson is our only forward and Yarran is by far our best ball user.
Jaksch, Whiley and Boekhorst should be playing also.
Lets just take a deep breath and ignore flog opinions from David king and co..
We have a long way to go but trading players also rips the club apart..
Just my silly opinion kids..

+1


Great post! +2 & :clap:



Absolute CRAP Post............. It makes way way WAY too much sense. :razz:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:40 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:14 am
Posts: 22357
Wojee wrote:
dane wrote:
Gotta trade em all.


Pokemon TC style.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:15 am 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 3992
Location: Steven Seagal's Martial Arts Academy
Rexy wrote:
If we need to retain Carrazzo, it shows how depleted our list is.
Scary...


Don't worry about what John "Einstein" Ralph says.

Carrazzo will go out on his own terms, and do what's right by the club.

I think the fact that his interest in umpiring has been made so public is a pretty sure sign that he's ready to hang up the boots.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:20 am 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:06 pm
Posts: 3992
Location: Steven Seagal's Martial Arts Academy
blueboy23 wrote:
People jumped at trading players just because the wanke$& wanna be afl player junornlists say so, makes me laugh!!!
Let's trade Henderson and Yarran, good idea because John Ralph and Damien Barrett say so!!
Why not build through the draft and if it takes 5 years so be it!!
Pick 1 or 2 plus another pick around 20, let's build with that.
We have a few injuries and untried players like Dillon Rainbow, Nick Holmen, Cameron Giles and the Irish boys.
Delist the list cloggers and for once let's take our time like other clubs.
Henderson is our only forward and Yarran is by far our best ball user.
Jaksch, Whiley and Boekhorst should be playing also.
Lets just take a deep breath and ignore flog opinions from David king and co..
We have a long way to go but trading players also rips the club apart..
Just my silly opinion kids..


Good post.

The problem is not that these genius media gurus are giving us advice ....

The problem is that our club is too spineless and clueless to make up its own mind.
And these vultures know that & feed off it.

I would love to see Giles and Rainbow get a run some time soon


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:22 am 
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Serge Silvagni
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:48 pm
Posts: 936
Yes kids, kids & kids, but its important to have "good players" in the side too because the kids need to learn their trade from someone ...

This is why it was so important to get Chris Judd to Carlton. I'm all for building and playing the youth, but make no mistake, wins are important too.

Fill a side with nothing but youth who get flogged week in week out with the hope that one day it'll all come good isn't the way forward. As much as we find and draft good young talent, their development is the be all and end all of our success or failure.

This is why it is SO important that our club from the top down is on the same page. We must retain senior players who are good examples both on field and off. Hence the many faceted values of getting Chris Judd to Carlton.

If we gut our club at the expense of some youth policy, we will swing too far from a balanced approach. Yes, get kids, play them frequently, give them every opportunity to learn, and develop them into seasoned contributors. I'm all for it 100%

But if we start trading the sparse talent we do have (lets face it, drafting #1 to #20 is no guarantee anyway) for kids, in the hope that we'll develop them without good on field (and off field) examples, including confidence boosting wins, then we've really just swung from one extreme (of shit recruiting and development) to another extreme, and will be in the same position in 10-15 years time.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:15 pm
Posts: 4842
The fans have just as little of an idea as the club. We've been trying to be 'rational' at the club for years; in fact - the club 'thrives' on it. You can rationalise anything and you still know bugger all! The club needs to visualise and carry out that vision not "take a deep breath". We've been hearing that same crap for years on end.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 1390
We have 3 number 1 picks, a couple of number 2's , and a raft of first rounders on our list now.

Early picks don't matter, recruitment and development do.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:14 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 3249
idle wrote:
Yes kids, kids & kids, but its important to have "good players" in the side too because the kids need to learn their trade from someone ...

This is why it was so important to get Chris Judd to Carlton. I'm all for building and playing the youth, but make no mistake, wins are important too.

Fill a side with nothing but youth who get flogged week in week out with the hope that one day it'll all come good isn't the way forward. As much as we find and draft good young talent, their development is the be all and end all of our success or failure.

This is why it is SO important that our club from the top down is on the same page. We must retain senior players who are good examples both on field and off. Hence the many faceted values of getting Chris Judd to Carlton.

If we gut our club at the expense of some youth policy, we will swing too far from a balanced approach. Yes, get kids, play them frequently, give them every opportunity to learn, and develop them into seasoned contributors. I'm all for it 100%

But if we start trading the sparse talent we do have (lets face it, drafting #1 to #20 is no guarantee anyway) for kids, in the hope that we'll develop them without good on field (and off field) examples, including confidence boosting wins, then we've really just swung from one extreme (of shit recruiting and development) to another extreme, and will be in the same position in 10-15 years time.


good post

also goes to highlight SOS's value at GWS. Sure focus on the picks at his disposal. However, do not dismiss the success gained by complimenting a young list with the right seniro players.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:34 pm 
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formerly cj69

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am
Posts: 7893
idle wrote:
Yes kids, kids & kids, but its important to have "good players" in the side too because the kids need to learn their trade from someone ...

This is why it was so important to get Chris Judd to Carlton. I'm all for building and playing the youth, but make no mistake, wins are important too.

Fill a side with nothing but youth who get flogged week in week out with the hope that one day it'll all come good isn't the way forward. As much as we find and draft good young talent, their development is the be all and end all of our success or failure.


When I say Kids kids and kids it means what we need to recruit and go down the draft route. It won't mean we play 22 kids each week.

Over the next three years we need to introduce around 20 -25 new kids to our group. Hopefully we will get more right than wrong. That is only half of our list in 3 years.

If things go well this trade period I expect us to trade 1 or 2 players for picks. For example, let's say we trade Henderson & Menzel for first round picks.

That leaves us with 3 picks inside top 20 plus another 3-5 picks plus rookies.

On our list we will still have Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Yarran, Docherty, Rowe, Jamison, Thomas, Casboult, Kruezer, Everitt, Bell, Walker, Tuohy as the senior group for the next 3 plus years.

Add to that emerging youngsters Cripps, Graham, Buckley, Byrne, Sheehan, Jaksch, Whiley, BB, Smith, DVR and our balance is okay.

The key is getting our young draft picks over the next 3-4 years right!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:34 pm 
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formerly Blue Boots

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:18 am
Posts: 1901
And holding onto our best players (Henderson, Yarran, Menzel etc) because this draft is considered a very weak one.
And yes, they need to learn from more experienced guys too.
Rome wasn't built in a day. And all that.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2040
ThePsychologist wrote:
idle wrote:
Yes kids, kids & kids, but its important to have "good players" in the side too because the kids need to learn their trade from someone ...

This is why it was so important to get Chris Judd to Carlton. I'm all for building and playing the youth, but make no mistake, wins are important too.

Fill a side with nothing but youth who get flogged week in week out with the hope that one day it'll all come good isn't the way forward. As much as we find and draft good young talent, their development is the be all and end all of our success or failure.


When I say Kids kids and kids it means what we need to recruit and go down the draft route. It won't mean we play 22 kids each week.

Over the next three years we need to introduce around 20 -25 new kids to our group. Hopefully we will get more right than wrong. That is only half of our list in 3 years.

If things go well this trade period I expect us to trade 1 or 2 players for picks. For example, let's say we trade Henderson & Menzel for first round picks.

That leaves us with 3 picks inside top 20 plus another 3-5 picks plus rookies.

On our list we will still have Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Yarran, Docherty, Rowe, Jamison, Thomas, Casboult, Kruezer, Everitt, Bell, Walker, Tuohy as the senior group for the next 3 plus years.

Add to that emerging youngsters Cripps, Graham, Buckley, Byrne, Sheehan, Jaksch, Whiley, BB, Smith, DVR and our balance is okay.

The key is getting our young draft picks over the next 3-4 years right!


my view is that it will depend on what is offered for players such as Yarran or Menzel. In our situation, you can't afford to discount anything

obviously if the offers are really good ones then you would take it, otherwise you keep the status quo and use your draft picks (wisely)

the point has been made previously but you need a blend of good experienced players and youth to develop into a good side

otherwise, it will make it more difficult to develop young players if the team is losing comfortably every week


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