That's it?
You choose to disagree? C'mon Padre, you don't even know what you're disagreeing with.
You have no concept of what these organisations do or achieve other than they're all " management consultant organisations tarred with the same brush".
You disregard the fact they're associated with the only teams who have had premiership success in the past 3 years and disregard the value these clubs openly associate with groups like Leading Teams.
Why? Because like Mick Malthouse, you can't actually accept the fact that's there's people out there who are offering better than we have.
I don't know the total ins and outs of organisations like Leading Teams but at least I got off my arse, did some research, sourced some facts and listened to the people who have worked with them before making uninformed judgements on them.
But hey, it's easier to bundle every management consultant organisation in the world into one basket and make judgements based on that, isn't it?
Give me a break. That's the type of thinking that will see us lagging behind the best indefinitely.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Didn't we have Leading Teams at Carlton a few years ago? Maybe management / the board didn't like the results back then.

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"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."

Actually Mick gave them the arse when he came in.
I'd suggest our results since are more of a concern.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Really? Ok. I thought they left the building mid to late 2000s.

Yeah I'm probably with you. Seems obvious we need some help with developing our leadership. Murphy, Gibbs, Jamison, Henderson - all quiet, reserved characters compared with the likes of Hodge and Selwood.

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"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."

They haven't been that concerning?

There comes a point where you do need to take the training wheels off a bit and see what happens, and I think it's been done at the right time. Consultants will talk about this sort of stuff but they'll always be looking to string you along for fees too.

Are we not seeing the playing group develop? Are we not seeing players who were going backwards or stagnating prior to Mick's arrival develop? I think they've had so many people come through the doors trying to tidy shit up and tell them they need to lift, the group has absorbed enough IP to have a go at it themselves in concert with Mick, who has studied football tactics for the better part of 40 years.

Then you have Trigg and McKay handling the business processes side of things, and offering to implement management strategy where it could help raise efficiencies. The psychological effects of giving the players a freedom to create and contribute with out fearing reprisal for mistakes through the week has to be a positive catalyst in of itself.

People learn in different ways and we have a noted difference in the average personality of our playing groups compared to Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong, who all have very similar environments in that respect. That's the prototypical footballer right now, but that doesn't mean our lot can't find their own way, but perhaps a Leading Teams cannot help them if they're applying a very rigid approach.

I obviously can't speak with authority on their experience with a variety of personalities, but generally speaking management consultancy doesn't tend involve a diverse range of backgrounds, and nor does Australian sport. This could well be for the best.

You have more direct info than I here, so I'd like to hear more about the culture of Leading Teams and how it applies to the playing group's culture, as well as the organisational culture at Carlton (which I believe are distinctly different, and that difference is a big part of the problem we have today).

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Yeah, consultants hey?
They're all the same as each other. And don't even start me on those dark skinned people.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I'm not going to tar everyone with the same brush but rules-of-thumb exist for a reason. And please don't equivocate my observation that a fee-driven service would be hesitant to cut off its supply as being akin to racism.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Well you just did Jim.



I don't know. Does 3 players up on assault charges within 12 months equate to acceptable development? Not to mention some other anti-social behaviours that haven't been made public.
I'd suggest we're kidding ourselves if we think our current leadership model is even close to elite AFL standard.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Yea .. but the Madhouse says its true so it must be. Thats why we are paying him the big bucks. 1 premiership in 19 years and we want a piece of that action.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Who? Scotland, White and ...?

White was probably defending himself in the end, Scotland the same and I presume you mean Garlett and Robbo, neither of whom are at the club any more.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

3 in 22 sounds better, but I can see why you wouldn't use that.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Insightful as always.

or u can say 1 in the last 5 years

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

You're a whiz Jim.
You can judge the innocence or guilt of players charged with assault without even attending court or reading the brief of evidence. And their motive as well!

As for Garlett and Robinson, obviously they don't reflect on our leadership or culture because, well, we made them someone else's problem. Not only that, Robinson lied to the club about his actions. Where have I heard of that happening before?

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/bans-fo ... 1117110818

Yeah, our leadership model is a pearler. Mick doesn't need any assistance. He's got it all under control.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

What's your definition of elite leadership?

Chris Judd

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

Blue vain your ramblings are purely emotional and lack logic and you clearly have invested in an agenda against Mick based on his media profile.. We know because thats all you could talk about last year. There is no talk about the fact that the players love mick, Ratts tried but was not up to the task, he took us as far as he could. Mick has full backing of his players. Our recruiting and trades jaksch, cripps, menzel, docherty, everitt all look like they'll be really valuable players for years to come, Thomas star quality will shine through this year .. IMO Mick is doing the best he can to get our house in order culturally, our leadership and our playing stocks. Blue vain I know you want the quick fix and premiership yesterday but these things take planning, the right ingredients and the right timing, of course top end talent and strong leadership most importantly. We royally [REDACTED] this up in the past through our recruiting development and poor leadership, all 3 of which still need work but were making inroads even if the results in win terms haven't come instantly, in terms of leadership, menzel, docherty, cripps as an example i believe will be future leaders of the club. If you recall we also lost around 7 games last year by 12 pts or less all with a substandard list. One that is improving though IMO. What most supporters forget is this is an 18 team competition, much stronger than 5 years ago, finals spots aren't handed on a silver platter anymore. Let's see how we go this year I think we might surprise some people... BV would be good to hear you say something positive or constructive for a change, it's been a while. Bless.

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Corinthians 9:6- 8

Took WCE to what 10 finals series in a row, 8 at coll. And he has a history of reinventing himself and keeping with the times. It's an important year for Mick but I'm backing him in.

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Corinthians 9:6- 8

Purely emotional and lack logic? BV is probably one of the most balanced posters on this site.

If there's something good to say he'll say it.

There hasn't been a lot to be positive about in a while.



Can you provide some evidence of when BV advocated quick fixes? Would have thought that's among the last things he's called for. In fact I think Malthouse was a quick fix.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

One of the most balanced? Don't know about recently. Of course we haven't had a lit to cheer about but yes I refer to his ramblings about Mick and the non issue which is his media profile. Parko was the same with the media if you recall and also had a couple of bad years with the blues while regenerating the list.. This isn't anything personal I'm sure bv is a good bloke but IMO lacking an open mind of late at least IMO. MM isn't perfect, but I'd prefer a coach to has the guts to back in his way, a coach that has a history of rebuilding teams and from rd 12 last year I think we can see signs of development and improvement in the club. I'm talking about the bitterness on this forum these days, I think the club as a whole has a lot to answer for in the sense that the supporters myself included have been disenchanted with the direction of the club but IMO Mick should be judged based on the now. How has our recruiting been the last 2 years? Are the club making in roads regarding fan engagement? Does Mick have the backing of the players? Where have collingwood gone since Mick left? If you wanna talk about ridiculous media coverage it's the soft reporting of Nathan Buckley who completely [REDACTED] up their premiership window, not that I'm complaining.

Let's see how Mick and the blues go this year if we have a shithouse year maybe then I'll eat my hat! Just saying the coach isn't perfect let's give some credit where it's due aswell though.

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Corinthians 9:6- 8