Simply put...I like to use the phrase, "Those part of the problem, and those part of the future"

On dissecting Hawthorn's (clear premiers) list, it is easy to see multiple leaders showcasing a winning attitude who understand themselves and that of the team.

I feel comfortable with Malthouse at the helm who tows the absolute trust environment line. He has the runs on the board, drive and talents to deliver us a flag.

Clearly we have (though are thankfully removing) individuals who do not fit in to the kind of winning culture the club is (hopefully) trying to build.

The club must accept its mistakes, accept its position and lay down a clear vision where everyone involved at the club has hope.

I am happy to date with trade murmurings - a step in the right direction.

So.....what are people's thoughts on Kreuzer?...Warnock?...Watson/Ellard/Curnow?...Will they be on the Carlton premiership podium? Im not so sure.
Is Murphy the right choice as captain? I think so.

Remember, where there is a will there is a way...the key word here being WILL.

You develop a winning culture by winning. The question is how do you win?

Well theres no correct answer as it's a function of many things, the most important being the cattle.

But setting the 'cattle' issue aside, what I think is required is that the club dedicates itself to being the very best at every thing the club does AND that it never stops evaluating and improving. From the best boot studder, to the best IT systems to the best communication team to the best member services etc etc etc. Make the club a professionally run organization at every level. Cultural change in any organization is only achieved from the bottom up and only where the change is for the better.

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

Thanks for the post, AIRCAV!

We have too many kodak moments that we brag about forgetting we may become a kodak irrelevancy.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

The Kodak reference is a good one. Kodak's timeline to irrelevancy has pretty much matched CFC's.

Both organisations put their heads in the sand in the mid-Nineties and dug deeper post-Millenium.

Carlton (unlike Kodak) with the right direction still have a chance to recover but as AIRCAV says it has to be done at all levels of the organisation.

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

Agreed. There's only so many times I can tell my 15 year old about the halcyon days, and how we WERE a powerful club...honestly son, I'm not lying...I'm not exaggerating.

While Hawks supporters bathe in touch screen memories of iPad, iPhone and Samsumg 20MP pix, we need to go back to the passe photo album of recollections, complete with white bordered colour photographs costing $1 each to develop, which in 2014 provide as much definition and clarity as the sepia scoreboard at VFL park in 1986.

Please LoGiudice, sell us more than just glib marketing platitudes. Give us something to hold onto

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

..I disagree, I think 'winning culture' is nurtured, and not manufactured.. ..winning does NOT build a winning culture, in and of itself.. ..you need players have are born with the winning culture.. ..Judd has it, Murphy does not.. ..now, Murphy may get some thru winning and development of mind and leadership, but it is not 'natural' to him, ditto Gibbs.. ..it has taken both of them half their careers to finally 'get it'.... ..a player like Krooz has it in spades, but has been held back due to injury.. ..but if he had the long run that they had, especially Gibbs, he'd be a champion..

..in essence, MM said that only tw players on our entire list had nothing to prove.. ..judd and krooz.... ..all others just didn't have that natural winning culture.. ..and you can tell by their early careers, by their games... ..winning or losing, they played competitive finals footy.. ..every game.. ..who else on our list can you say played every game of their career with full fighting spirit..?..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

So how do we rectify the situation?

Im a bit puzzled about your reference to Kreuzer? He has had no winning culture at AFL level. Juddy has, correct.

Do we bring in people with that winning feeling? MM and RW I believe have the runs on the board, AND still have the burning desire.

In terms of passing down the batten, I feel that Carrots, Simmo, Juddy, Mclean, Jamo, Walker, Murph and Gibbs can sign a pact whereby NO MEDIOCRITY is accepted and show the rest of the team the standards necessary to succeed.

It takes patience and hard work to right the ship.

..don't confuse a winning culture, with games of football that are won.. ..it is a team sport, and players with a winning culture can still spend their careers in losing teams (Lenny Hayes for example spent over half his career in a poor team)..

..as for the names you mentioned above, only Judd has played most of his career with a winning mindset.. ..all the other names have been 'ok' with going easy, with just going through the motions.. ..judd, and also krooz, always go down swinging..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

You clearly have big wraps on Krooz. Im not so optimistic. Would love to be wrong.

..winning culture.. ..there would be players with more of a winning culture than some highly skilled players.. ..ellard would have more winning culture than say, dal Santo.. ....skill is a different discussion.. ....most of our players have copped criticism over their careers for just slacking off, for laying down, for not giving everything they have on the field.... ..for choosing when they play competitive over an entire game.... ..winning culture is about doing everything, all the time, on and off field to win.. ..for the team, not playing selfish survivalist football.. ..the player that can barely stand after a match, whether winning or losing.. ..that is winning culture..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

It's just a little thing, but watching the Hawthorn celebrations at their family day on TV the day after the GF, my wife commented "Do you notice there's no grog to be seen? None of the players are wearing sunnies either, wearing sunnies always gives a look of arrogance. It was the same after the GF last year too".

That's good culture right there I guess, or the impression of same.

Dylan Buckley.

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We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.

I remember prior to draft day in 2007, vic metro coach at the time, david dixon, describe Matt Kreuzer, as the player with the biggest heart, in all of his years of junior football coaching. A big wrap for coach of multiply winning Vic Metro team in U18 champs.

Let's hope the big fella can get a decent run at 2-3 years of injury free football.

I've said it before, besides Judd and Daisy, our entire list of players have never played 4 quarters of hard football, especially our current senior players.

We just have this shitty, lazy culture with this list of players, there is a big "yeah I've done enough for today" attitude during games.

Not going to achieve anything with this leadership group. I am happy for Waite to go, the sooner we replace this senior list the better.

You have to ask yourself the simple question
Why are in the bottom half of the comp given where we were eight years ago.

Culture
Hawthorn celebrated with its fans with no grog in sight, no sunnies and backward baseball caps

Our culture over the years has been shit
Pompous players
Shit recruitment
Shit coaches


Pretty simple
Our President has done very little to address the issues
Trigg shows @#$%&! all
It seems to me that none of the cultural issues have been fully addressed
We are rebuilding from the ground up so McKay and Waite is gone which is a start

We have always had a problem with hats.

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dane's trolling again

Could 2014 see the greatest ever change to a list in the history of the modern era?...Just a thought...

Seriously, other than a total of 33 players:
Walker, Menzel, Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Simmo, Buckley, Kreuzer, Yarran, Docherty, Cripps, Rowe, Giles, Holman, Hendo, Bell, Graham, Everitt, Curnow, Thomas, Jamo, Casboult, Touhy, White, Carrazzo, Wood, Johnson, Sheehan, Byrne, (Watson, Ellard, Armfield and Mclean will probably be kept)....the rest will likely go.

That means that 12 players will be gone in one year! (Lucas, Warnock, Robinson, Temay, McInness, Garlett, Scotland, Waite, Reynolds, Cachia, Bootsma and Duigan)...So are we likely to see ANOTHER 4 (Warnock, Robbo, Jeffy and Lucas) players depart the club before next season?

SO, we will pick up 5 kids in the draft and rookie a further 2...or perhaps the club will trade the picks for players from other clubs?...

Don't forget in 2013 Mick chucked out a large sum of players...

Another 3-4 years until we challenge for a flag!....It took Mick 8 years at Collingwood (correct?)...

..third year wasn't it?, for back to back grand final matches, losing the first match by a small margin, due to some heroics from the Brions champ team..

..as for Dylan Buckley, small sample size but he is SoJ, so I reckon 'winning culture' is in his blood.. ....he's like a terrier.. ....take over jeffy's role I say, and further build up his tank cos he is one that will be able to go into the middle in a couple more years, no matter his size he is tough as nails and the more inside he plays the more ferocious he will be.. ....and he has pace to burn..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

A winning culture is not in the profile of teams who are bent over by the AFL without a whimper.

We would receive at least a 3rd rounder if we were to trade Waite.

Getting nothing for our 'best' KP after paying top dollar for years to keep him rested on the side lines. No doubt he has preserved his body from all that rest and is worth a 2 year contract to play with NM.

We were bent over by AFL over salary cap issues in 2002...unprecedented penalties. Crows get slap over the wrist over Tippett illegal payments in 2013. AFL force us to Dome without a whimper.....

Now Waite leaves because of the AFLs FA movement and we get no compo pick? Without a whimper?

Time to dispute and appeal the decision Carlton.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue