whats that got to do with Oligarchs???
MJ do you even underdstand or have the slightest concept of what were talking about here?
i know swann is gone
i know sticks has to go....
whats that got to do with who runs the club???

youre cracking me up.... youre like Robbo on Fox.. talking nonsense and all around the point.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Your right, a lot of people point to the 90s as still being part of the golden age, but in reality the issues began around 1989, and we were able to get back up between 1993-96 on the back of some smart recruiting, existing legends from the 80s, and some young guns we brought though the under 19s setup.

Trouble was we never embraced the draft to get success so got into the mindset we didn't need to. Sure we did well with campo, McKay and hamill. But 1995 solidified the notion to those at the club that we would be successful just because we were Carlton.

We came back for another crack between 1999-2001 with the same mix as we had to get success in the mid 90s just less good, and with bugger all coming through outside the seniors. 2002 was the culmination of the best part of 15 years completely neglecting the draft and realising there was a salary cap and that 80s chequebook methods no longer worked.

So we completely fell apart from the most powerful club (in terms of success and support) in 15 years, and we know what happened next.

Hawthorn had an even swifter fall from their top perch nearly merging in 1996. At the time thought they didn't have the supporter base we did, but the near death experience galvanised the fan base and got good people in charge, which has continued ever since.

It's a long way back, we are caught in no mans land at the moment, in real sobering terms we are no bigger than 5th in terms of big clubs in Victoria perhaps even 6th below Geelong.

We have people running our club who think the name Carlton is a right of passage to be successful, simply by existing. I've had enough and unfortunately it might take a season finishing 15th for those running the place to see they need to bugger off and see what a mess they have made.

Mr Chatfield you make some Sensible insightful comments

...and for that alone my friend you will be rewarded with some wisdom from the GREAT SOCRATES 2500 years ago

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

Trivial Polemical Score update:

Mr S. 27
Mr MJ. 3

(Mr S, you have been losing some of your intensity lately, you let Mr MJ get in 3 short jabs, lift your game Mr S)

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

What's Plato have to say on the matter?

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

The point is synbad you said they ruled the club and kept all these stooges including kernahan to enable them to do so. So if that's the case why are all their power base going. I will tell you why because they don't control the place and will go as well.

I don't know, what would one of Socrates's students have to say?

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

so-crates

excellent !!

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

All Oligarchs eventually fall, or are surgically removed via attrition or grass roots revolution

there is expulsion method, via the use of equal force such as the Putin removal of 18 corrupt Oligarchs in Russia who were robbing the country blind and sending profits off shore

Carlton doesn't need a Putinisation at the top, because its just a sporting club that is still in debt to the tune of 5 or 6 million (its a myth that Board members and presidents put in MONEY into clubs - what they do is attract sponsors, and sometimes use their own corporate structures to sponsor and assist the club. But they definitely gain more than they put in. No corporations or private body continues sponsoring or advertising when there is not direct benefit. Even when they give to Charity, they get a tax break and its usually done with fan fare rather than anonomously. So donations are for tax purposes and for marketing of their brand, personal image and empire)

What this board is banking everything on, including their own asses is Mick Malthouse pulling off a short term miracle. Short term fixes ever work, they merely create more long term problems

(and that's exactly what the Elliott Board tried to do, when they dragged in Pagan, even though they really wanted Leigh Matthews, who didn't want to leave Brisbane yet)

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

No Kernahan is their useful idiot.
And yes there are other useful and non useful idiots on that board...

But you have not once illustrated how they(the Carlton Oligarchs ) dont drive the footy club between them....

You havent because you cannot.

People get invited on by either of those two camps.
People that attempt to go in through a vote are blocked. heaps of evidence re that if we care to revisit what happned last couple of elections.
The entire weight of the footy club is galvanised to keep them out
Ridiculous!!!
Plus were told ... "there wasting good carlton money".. if the club doesnt have enough money to allow elections.... it should just put out a sign "TYRANNY"

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad you have studied the board a lot harder than most of us here. Are you happy to put each individual board member under the Synbad microscope? I would be interested to know what you think of each board member and rate them out of 10 and list the good things and poor things they have done for the club and whether they are needed in the future. Surely all of them cannot be bad and there are some board members doing a great job for the club.

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It is not as bad as you are lead to believe.......it is %$#^& worse!!!

whos going to go???
them or their influence and power???

half the board or more are direct appointees of either the Pratts or the Mathiesons.
The other half fall into line behind them or one or the other....

They dont need to be on the board to run the club......

There is no independent bloc of board members on that board...... the useful idiots are just that.
Unless u can display how the club actually runs along right now.....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I'd be in favour of this too, if you're not already worn out, Synbad. I'm not sure we need to see much more of the argy bargy with MJ, as enlightening as it has been.

I'm sure plenty of us would like to know more about Harry Mitchell, but that might be PM stuff.

Most of us are far removed from the inner workings, but we would like to know what our glorious leaders are up to, from outside of the bland glossy PR pieces they feed us.

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'People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.'
Soren Kierkegaard

Synbad,

You maintain your position by asking me to prove otherwise and never bring any evidence to support your own other than flimsy suppositions and theories that you present as facts. I on the otherhand gave a very reasoned response based on evidence in my first post.

As an example of your case

You say Ahmed is on the board because he is a Box customer of Visy. What crap. He is on there because he is competent. Did you use the same arguement when Elliot was our president and head of Fosters. Fosters was a huge box customer

You say Kernahan is a stooge of the board. How is he a stooge of the board when he predated them and they tried to move him on?

You totally ignore the composition of the board. You ignore the constitution and just invent a conspiracy theory regarding control and then don't exercise your rights to be involved or change the status quo.

I agree you can question the boards competence on football matters and agree change is needed. I don't believe matheson/Pratts want anymore than club success and am grateful for the financial turnaround they helped deliver. What I am absolutely against is your development of a culture of resentment that scapegoats the clubs onfield performance on Matheson/Pratts

I think its condescending essay time again!

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dane's trolling again

do you know anything about cooking?
Its all in the ingredients.. they must be fresh.. they must work in harmony with each other.therefore there must not be any overwhelming ingredient... they must give complexity and texture.. the taste will therefore have great flavour..complexity and furthermore you shouldnt have to use too many ingredients... and that be delicious .

Do you know what it i to put a soup on for a few hours and you have some very bland ingredients mixed in with some very overpowering ingredients?
If you dont know what youre doing.. ...............................each ingredient has been meticulously chsen to add something unique to the dish....


Ok, this is what you get...!... the bland is all woven in together with more bland into a slop of nothingness and there are a couple of overpowering ingredients that have completely overwhelmed, vanquished and dominated the dish into a uninviting, foul, unappetizing , distasteful dish... that you just know has to be thrown out.....


No different....

Carlton there is no hero of the dish.... its just sludge that resonates bitterness

Home Eco 101

dane i am an expansionist... my material is very enhanced .. and i need to join the dots for people.. therefore i need to expansd
how can i be a minimalist or a concisest when i have some extraordinary views on things that to you seem so simple... and yet theyre not.

if i see things from complete left field and you cannot.. i need to therefore expand so as you can see things for what they are more clearly.

surrey is a concisest.
"We are shit because .. well look at the heavyweights and see what they have done"
youre a concisest... as you dont tell anyone why you bag them... you just do if they criticise the club.

i can expain and expand.. and allow people to see what i am thinking and why...

because i make no bones about expanding to allow others to understand.

if i just said.. sticks is shit!
and watson is no good...
id be a minimalist

but i tell you why exactly...

understand???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Mr S is in supreme culinary form this evening ladies and gentlemen.

In the mass media propaganda model, what you describe is referred to as concision

It works very well for publicizing repeated spin lies in the media that interviewees can reiterate in a few minutes or between commercial breaks.

Example. Let's say the topic was on the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the USA at the end of ww2. The propaganda model is that these nukings were needed to end the war, and save lives. Only need a minute to say these lines.

If you wish to go deeper and portray a more balanced and honest narrative, then you will need lots of time, examples and evidence.

And the mass media never provide that opportunity.

That is what concision is.

So Mr S you continue your elongated epitaphs and mono logs leaving a trail of carnage behind you with slaughtered carcasses lining the streets of hades.

For that alone you deserve a quote from the great one....

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

actually.. i have shown how the pratts and mathiesons are board stacking and how anyone coming through the electoral process is blocked..
that means its 2 families that basically control the club
what you claim is sheer folly

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad,

Last post you talked about cooking. Your previous theory was that the board was stacked with cardboard box customers. This is not the case as Fahour is their based on ability (You support him). Now tell us clearly how the board has been stacked in clear simple terms

eg Board member a) was dropped onto the board and has yet to face a vote of the members because of reason xxxx with evidence
Board member b) etc. etc.

Put all your reasons evidence out there. No hints. No I am alluding to this or that. Just facts

Once again this is not a debate about competence. We both agree that competence is lacking in terms of the football area of our board. This is not a debate about influence. We both agree that Matheson/Pratt have influence. Control and conspiracy is your contention so put it all out there.