The recruitment of Judd was not a mistake. In fact it was fantastic recruiting and should’ve been a masterstroke. The only downside to Judd’s arrival was the clubs inability to build a team around him to have a genuine shot at a flag in years 2010/2011 as he was approaching his final years of peak output. And the clubs inability to facilitate this is really another sad chapter in a wider incapacity to properly recruit and develop players and teams at Carlton. Hopefully the era of Malthouse and Buttifant sees a change to this ongoing ineptitude!

So instead of having a team capable of having a crack in those years (2011 wasn’t bad but for our mid-season slump!) we failed to capitalise on having Judd at the club and now he is nearing retirement and we are facing another build up to challenge again. Three years to get a team around Judd was more than enough time.

Unfortunately I still see too many gaps in our list and team to be considered a genuine threat. Too many players still yet to take the next step and progress at a rate seen at other clubs

So the recruitment of Judd wasn’t the issue, it boils down to our player development as always

Good post MarkNo3. Just shows you can twist stats anyway you want to prove a point.

No doubt we need to improve in the recruiting/list management department - thats been discussed at length - however the Under 23 Geelong v Carlton thing doesn't really mean much.

Geelong have a lot of players around the 22 year old mark. We have a heap in the 23/24 range, hence the stats look bad on paper.

The likes of Gibbs, Kreuzer, Curnow, Robinson, Everitt, Henderson, Yarran, Tuohy and Garlett are hardly finished despite the fact they dont fall into the AFL Prospectus' age comparison theory that was mentioned earlier.

For the side to improve significantly it must come from this group, regardless of how many kids we have on the list....

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But they have welter of terrific junior players coming through like Motlop, Chritensen, Duncan, Menzel, Murdoch, Smedts, Guthrie, Caddy, Horlin- Smith. I think they're doing OK.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

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Building a team by developing kids drafted in 2009 and 2010 to be a premiership contender in 2011 would be quite a miraculous achievement. Unfortunately, having traded out Kennedy we punted Fevola at the end of '08 meaning we were left of any key forward potency. In hindsight we should have been looking at trading our 2007 number one pic for another star such as Pavlich. Whilst Kreuzer had plenty of potential, it was highly unlikely, without injuries, he would've been at Pavlich potential by 2011. Injecting at least one more experienced star into the 2008 side would've made quite a difference come September 2011. So in a way, recruiting Judd whilst rebuilding, wasn't the smartest thing to do. We should've said, "@#$%&! rebuilding, Judd wants to come to us, he'll improve us in the next three years by 25% lets try and find another 20% right now and go for it!"

Really?!!

We're comparing drafted talent between Carlton and Geelong over the past 5-7 years now??

c'mon guys

@ verbs, probably moreso our recruits from 06, 07, 08 who with proper development could’ve made more of Judd’s arrival

Mick is a very smart man. According to the HUN (FWIW) our best team will go a long way into September. He's recruited some B/C grade talent as back-up and has some good talent under 21 to blood this year when possible.

Next year's draft will be an important one.

Injuries to key players will determine how well we go this year.

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judd is an issue
money in salary cap
kennedy
number 3 pick
number 20 pick


thats not the only reason why we didnt build a team around judd but its a flower good reason.

robbed peter to pay paul

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Great points marci and verbs. Hindsight is great but I couldn't agree more.

Quite aside from premierships - and I know it is always about premierships and team success - the arrival of Chris Judd and watching him at his peak has been perhaps my greatest joy in watching football over the last 6 years. Judd has given me the sort of pleasure I had watching Jezza as a kid, and Kouta in that sublime period in 2000/2001. The champs electrify the experience of watching football. Winning is joyful no doubt but flags in an 18 team competition are going to be harder and harder to procure. If flags are your only joy the road ahead will largely be one of disappointment.

Recruiting Judd was a masterstroke, recruiting Ratten a disaster.

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Unless youre successful and been playing finals, you should have a balanced smattering of players at every age group .
If you dont you have been doing something wrong

There is a reason why Geelong dont have a middle tiered age group... they were busy winning flags
We have a very unbalanced list not only in age groups but also positions

We have been busy recruiting rucks in a spate... Warnock Jacobs Kreuzer and Hampson all in the same period.
Then our much spoken about half back flankers.... a real flood of those
Then the small forwards
Then we have the talls in the one draft
Right now its slow inside mids by the dozen

All of that screams terrible recruitment and list management

Youre never going to create a side capable of winning flags with that kind of knee jerk mentality...
why cos theyre not all going to be capable of playing in the team at the same time. Its overload!

At the same time.. were not taking the kinds of players youre supposed to have ... versatile runners with skills.

Looks like pushing shit up hill.

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Drafting Judd is the masterstroke!!!... recruiting him isnt so much....

We won nothing more than eliminational finals

yes the same people who made the judd decision made the ratten decisions... clearly not in touch with whats required to win flags

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Gee sorry 'recruited' .

The same people? Probably not entirely. I doubt Swan was instrumental in getting Ratten to sign on the dotted line. Pratt thought Fev was critical and we had to keep him regardless of his on and off-field antics. You're never going to win a flag with that attitude.

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yes... but you have to draft the judds ... and he isnt a once in a lifetime player
in this day and age if youre going to trade and pay for them... ur going overs.
that means u upset the apple cart

judd was more a marketing thing from a club that had no confidence in itself.
we still dont....

we will always be looking to trade for the next judd because we have no belief in ourselves.

consider buddy leaving the hawks.... can u imagine if he was ours what we would have done to keep him???

mortgaged the farm and sold the family jewels.

the whole of the hawthorn club including supporters just moved on....

they believe in their powers

half way through the season in a season sticks told us judd might retire(in HES NOT SETTING THE WORLD ON FIRE ANYMORE EITHER... ITS BEEN TWO AND A HALF YEARS.. we made him our highest paid player yet again....

its a nice snapshot between the two clubs

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I agree to an extent. We had a chance to get the #1 pick this year but wouldn't stump up what was required (allegedly). But If you think JK would have us any closer to a flag right now I think you're kidding yourself. It would be nice to have your cake and eat it too, but I'll take Judd over JK and Masten any day.

But that's history - now we've proven we're prepared to let club 'icons' go (betts) in order to improve our list. IMO that's a big step forward.

I love Eddie but he was getting us nowhere and I'm more than happy to see him replaced with Thommo.

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Anyone with half a brain or greater could see it coming a mile off. Carlton weren't ready for that kind of trade.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

2 points
1 I would rather build a side slowly to win the ultimate prize. Kennedy and potentially 2 good players would be at their peak now not 30 and passed their best. Armfield has been a reasonable bi-product of the trade but I doubt he has the skills to be in a premiership 22. You don't win flags these days with trades like the Judd trade.
2 Geelong thrashed us at VFL level last year and we had about 15 senior guys playing for us that day. Only Bell and Watson looked AFL material. Geelong had a dozen or so.
THATS BECAUSE THEY RECRUIT BETTER

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

It's hard to counter argue

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

I'm hoping that Mick can make players out of a fair portion of the following:

Menzel
Buckley
Lucas
Watson
Docherty
Cripps
Temay
Bootsma
Giles
Holman
Bell
Graham
Casboult
Sheehan
Byrne

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dane's trolling again