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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:58 pm
Posts: 539
I rate our list,recruiters,managers 5out of 10. dale $700 thousand easy trade,again everitt and doc gave our picks tell me what is so hard about doing this. We better hope daisy ankle is okay. no bruce or a savage or adams swap player for a pick (hampson) something better. Any way hopefully everything will work out.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18024
ThePsychologist wrote:
I'm okay with getting Docherty, Thomas I'm not sure nor Everitt.

Does this mean the Coaching & List Management group believe we are close to a premiership?

Thomas at his best is a gun but in my opinion his best his behind him and he has 3 years maximum at the top. Docherty is a talent and at 20 is a worthwhile pickup. Everitt has been plagued by inconsistency his whole career and cannot play "tall". Everytime he has he has struggled. Concerns me that I hear McKay say he could be a swingman with Henderson. Seriously!! :banghead:

Also, no improvement in the draft. AGAIN. Pick 13 & 39 plus the above players isnt that good IMO. Did we try and get more picks inside Top 20? We lack genuine A grade talent through the middle. Our No. 1s Kruezer, Murphy & Gibbs are now in their prime and need to improve.

I really wonder where our list is. MM says we lack midfield run. I don't believe we have addressed it. Also, not one key position player. We will again be relying on Watson, Casboult & Rowe to step up.

Be interesting to see how it plays out but I get the feeling we are still caught in no mans land.


Unfortunately I cant disagree with any of that. Are we contending? Are we rebuilding? Do we have a long term plan or are we living for today.
If there's a strategy in place, its not apparent to me. Docherty was a good get but the rest is hopes and prayers.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Who says you need to pick? You build for today and build for tomorrow, and only make the really bold move if it's a win/win or you can cover your arse 18-24 months down the track.

Some of the older players are going to have to be on board with that after this coming season though.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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You only build for today if you believe you can contend for a flag. Otherwise you plan to build a list that can win one.
We seem unsure and so we're hedging our bets IMO. That's not management and leadership. Its uncertainty and guesswork. Do you think we have a defined strategy Jim that has achieveable short and long term goals?
Are you seeing any evidence of one?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Back in reality
I still think we're protecting the quality on our list and attempting to acquire more. If we felt the list was trash we'd trade up and take the short term hit.

The goal is to not repeatedly middle-out like we have. We need to repeatedly finish top 6 because then we have the currency in players to upgrade picks as needed.

I'm very much a believer in the idea that with the right mindset, good analysis and management of contracts, you can regenerate a list while still looking to compete in finals. It's the failure to keep things ticking over or a complete disaster injury/development wise that brings a club to its knees.

We look like we extracted value in this trade period, and we've got 3 decent selections to work with, as well as multiple strategies and opportunities with pick 69 if the pool is shallow. I'm happy with that. Still plenty of broad strokes and finer detail to work on in this picture. :P

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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pew1 wrote:
I rate our list,recruiters,managers 5out of 10. dale $700 thousand easy trade,again everitt and doc gave our picks tell me what is so hard about doing this. We better hope daisy ankle is okay. no bruce or a savage or adams swap player for a pick (hampson) something better. Any way hopefully everything will work out.

:clap: :clap: Really well said!
















































huh???

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2759
FFS we are going to turn over 10 or more players!
This is a big change. Most of those staying are very good to great players. We denigrate our own and glorify average players from other teams.

We don't need to completely overhaul our top 22 in the one off-season!
We are building a team for the next 5yrs and in the meantime, aiming to finish top 8 and possibly top 4.
From there, anything can happen.

Our whole future does not depend on getting a CHF during this trade period. Apart from Buddy, there was nothing there.
J White was the best available and, frankly, if we'd paid overs for him, I would have been pissed off.
I am glad we didn't get Dawes last year. Or Lynch. These are 2nd-stringers past their best. Mitch Clark hardly inspires.
Tippett was a good pick up for Sydney but hey, they went on to lose anyway.
In any event, I don't think there was much around this year that we could say will definitely be better than Casboult or Rowe.
There would not have been much point trading in good players to get higher picks with no guarantee they'd be better than what we gave up. Ok, if we could have gotten a top 10 pick, that might have been good but at what cost?

We have improved our list in the last few weeks, losing one top 22 player and receiving, hopefully, 3 top 22 players with good skills (who were all 1st round picks).
The top 22 player we lost, we can somewhat cover for.
We will pick up another first rounder in a few weeks time. That will mean half our top 22 should be first rounders. That should give us the skills required. Now it's up to Mick to craft a formidable team and coherent game plan.

I don't buy into all this doom and gloom. We are not where we would have liked to be but we were also a kick or so off beating some good teams last year (Ess twice, Rich once) and should have made sure of the StK and Bulldogs games. That's 5 games turnaround which would have put us into top 5 contention - and who here does not think we will be better next year than this year? Yes, we have to nail the wins but if you think we weren't capable of it, you're kidding yourselves. We genuinely struggled against the top 4 teams but were capable of beating anyone else. We should improve next year.

We have every chance of improving our playing level and ladder position next year. And then, we can build a bit more, get another top pick, pick up another free agent, make a couple of trades... we are on the up. Has taken longer than we'd hoped but that is the same for pretty much every team (Hawks would have expected a flag last year, Pies would have expected to win more after 2010 etc...)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
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Don't let the facts get in the way of brain dead hysteria


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm
Posts: 2123
17th Premiership wrote:
FFS we are going to turn over 10 or more players!
This is a big change. Most of those staying are very good to great players. We denigrate our own and glorify average players from other teams.

We don't need to completely overhaul our top 22 in the one off-season!
We are building a team for the next 5yrs and in the meantime, aiming to finish top 8 and possibly top 4.
From there, anything can happen.

Our whole future does not depend on getting a CHF during this trade period. Apart from Buddy, there was nothing there.
J White was the best available and, frankly, if we'd paid overs for him, I would have been pissed off.
I am glad we didn't get Dawes last year. Or Lynch. These are 2nd-stringers past their best. Mitch Clark hardly inspires.
Tippett was a good pick up for Sydney but hey, they went on to lose anyway.
In any event, I don't think there was much around this year that we could say will definitely be better than Casboult or Rowe.
There would not have been much point trading in good players to get higher picks with no guarantee they'd be better than what we gave up. Ok, if we could have gotten a top 10 pick, that might have been good but at what cost?

We have improved our list in the last few weeks, losing one top 22 player and receiving, hopefully, 3 top 22 players with good skills (who were all 1st round picks).
The top 22 player we lost, we can somewhat cover for.
We will pick up another first rounder in a few weeks time. That will mean half our top 22 should be first rounders. That should give us the skills required. Now it's up to Mick to craft a formidable team and coherent game plan.

I don't buy into all this doom and gloom. We are not where we would have liked to be but we were also a kick or so off beating some good teams last year (Ess twice, Rich once) and should have made sure of the StK and Bulldogs games. That's 5 games turnaround which would have put us into top 5 contention - and who here does not think we will be better next year than this year? Yes, we have to nail the wins but if you think we weren't capable of it, you're kidding yourselves. We genuinely struggled against the top 4 teams but were capable of beating anyone else. We should improve next year.

We have every chance of improving our playing level and ladder position next year. And then, we can build a bit more, get another top pick, pick up another free agent, make a couple of trades... we are on the up. Has taken longer than we'd hoped but that is the same for pretty much every team (Hawks would have expected a flag last year, Pies would have expected to win more after 2010 etc...)


Get with the program. It is a miracle that the club even manages to unlock its doors every morning! :thumbsup: :lol:

But seriously, great post!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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To me no doubt the list is improved in structure and quality but the question yet to be answered is have the others improved more than us ?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4058
Location: South Yarra
Rexy wrote:
To me no doubt the list is improved in structure and quality but the question yet to be answered is have the others improved more than us ?


Our list is a mess. We've improved it as much as can be expected given the poor salary cap management and inability to make tough decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14686
Location: The Vodka Train
aramari wrote:
Rexy wrote:
To me no doubt the list is improved in structure and quality but the question yet to be answered is have the others improved more than us ?


Our list is a mess. We've improved it as much as can be expected given the poor salary cap management and inability to make tough decisions.


..won't know until next year, and each team's injury list will dictate much.. ..if yazz didn't have early hammy issues, waite injury setbacks, betts broken jaw, murph busted in half, judd hammy issues early year and niggles later, carrots calfs most of year.. ....

..a full pre-season into murphy, DT, krooz, judd and carrots will have a big improvement in the list already.. ..natural improvement in the younger core like krooz, hendo, touhy, yazz, jeffy [continue 1st half season form all season long], curnow, robbo, army [who i think improves every year] and now everitt [right age and games group].. .... ..and a fair bit rests on watto's shoulders, if he can push hard over pre-season and get himself in a position to be given CHB opportunity we will be looking good..

..what can we expect out of docherty moving ahead?, menz we know is high talent so how much can we count on him in regards to gaining more fitness, cos the skills and smarts are there.. ..will there be more to bell than just a taller version of robbo?, will graham get more opportunity? [i think so], will temay push his way towards making a debut??.. .. ..and of course, pick 13..

..and thats just the players.. ..with i believe a bigger shared buy-in by the playing group, with reinforced expectations and standards, with more time again to learn what the coaches want, and the coaches themselves learning what the players are capable of,, i think we could dramatically improve.. ..we played a lot of dysfunctional footy, but even thru that we now and then put it together, its now about making sure we get that consistency..

..in regards to our improvement vs other teams, i think we'll be good..

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Last edited by Big Kahuna Boot on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2715
aramari wrote:
Rexy wrote:
To me no doubt the list is improved in structure and quality but the question yet to be answered is have the others improved more than us ?


Our list is a mess. We've improved it as much as can be expected given the poor salary cap management and inability to make tough decisions.


I am unsure of what "tough" decisions needed to be made. Can you be specific?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:23 pm
Posts: 158
I hope Casboult can step up. He showed signs but very inconsistent, & has to learn to kick strait. But all this is confidence.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
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marcou wrote:
I hope Casboult can step up. He showed signs but very inconsistent, & has to learn to kick strait. But all this is confidence.

trim down and add something when the ball hits the deck.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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marcou wrote:
I hope Casboult can step up. He showed signs but very inconsistent, & has to learn to kick strait. But all this is confidence.


Back to BASSics I suppose?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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marcou wrote:
I hope Casboult can step up. He showed signs but very inconsistent, & has to learn to kick strait. But all this is confidence.


I wish it was confidence, but it's not. He has a shocking technique that is unlikely to be rectified at the age he is now.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 11671
17th Premiership wrote:
FFS we are going to turn over 10 or more players!
This is a big change. Most of those staying are very good to great players. We denigrate our own and glorify average players from other teams.

We don't need to completely overhaul our top 22 in the one off-season!
We are building a team for the next 5yrs and in the meantime, aiming to finish top 8 and possibly top 4.
From there, anything can happen.

Our whole future does not depend on getting a CHF during this trade period. Apart from Buddy, there was nothing there.
J White was the best available and, frankly, if we'd paid overs for him, I would have been pissed off.
I am glad we didn't get Dawes last year. Or Lynch. These are 2nd-stringers past their best. Mitch Clark hardly inspires.
Tippett was a good pick up for Sydney but hey, they went on to lose anyway.
In any event, I don't think there was much around this year that we could say will definitely be better than Casboult or Rowe.
There would not have been much point trading in good players to get higher picks with no guarantee they'd be better than what we gave up. Ok, if we could have gotten a top 10 pick, that might have been good but at what cost?

We have improved our list in the last few weeks, losing one top 22 player and receiving, hopefully, 3 top 22 players with good skills (who were all 1st round picks).
The top 22 player we lost, we can somewhat cover for.
We will pick up another first rounder in a few weeks time. That will mean half our top 22 should be first rounders. That should give us the skills required. Now it's up to Mick to craft a formidable team and coherent game plan.

I don't buy into all this doom and gloom. We are not where we would have liked to be but we were also a kick or so off beating some good teams last year (Ess twice, Rich once) and should have made sure of the StK and Bulldogs games. That's 5 games turnaround which would have put us into top 5 contention - and who here does not think we will be better next year than this year? Yes, we have to nail the wins but if you think we weren't capable of it, you're kidding yourselves. We genuinely struggled against the top 4 teams but were capable of beating anyone else. We should improve next year.

We have every chance of improving our playing level and ladder position next year. And then, we can build a bit more, get another top pick, pick up another free agent, make a couple of trades... we are on the up. Has taken longer than we'd hoped but that is the same for pretty much every team (Hawks would have expected a flag last year, Pies would have expected to win more after 2010 etc...)

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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DocSherrin wrote:
marcou wrote:
I hope Casboult can step up. He showed signs but very inconsistent, & has to learn to kick strait. But all this is confidence.


I wish it was confidence, but it's not. He has a shocking technique that is unlikely to be rectified at the age he is now.

Worst technique in living memory was Warwick Capper. How he managed to kick straight is a mystery to me.

Levi is a reasonable kick on the run. I think he can be turned around. Even at his age (What is he, 21?)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:14 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Location: Recovering from the 1st effort
Blue Sombrero wrote:
DocSherrin wrote:
marcou wrote:
I hope Casboult can step up. He showed signs but very inconsistent, & has to learn to kick strait. But all this is confidence.


I wish it was confidence, but it's not. He has a shocking technique that is unlikely to be rectified at the age he is now.

Worst technique in living memory was Warwick Capper. How he managed to kick straight is a mystery to me.

Levi is a reasonable kick on the run. I think he can be turned around. Even at his age (What is he, 21?)


What age did Tuohy learn to kick a footy?

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