R19: Carlton vs Sydney (post match discussion)

mots · **Joined:** Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 pm **Posts:** 832

Psyc, I know your right in what you say. Confidence and self belief in anything you do is crucial to a successful outcome. I don't know whether the players believe in what Ratt's is trying to instill into them or not but there is definitely a lack of cohesion out there at present. From my observations he seems to shuffle the deck chairs an awful lot similar to what Danny Frawley used to do at Richmond before the crunch came. Maybe Ratt's is not sure either in what he is trying to do. Only the inner sanctum would know.

Hornet · **Joined:** Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm **Posts:** 7439

Teams that do the 1 %ers go a long way in the modern game.

The blocks/sheppards, the little knock-on's (Thornton) to advantage, situational awareness, sacrificial acts that don't count in the stats book etc.

We as a club are extremely poor in this area...

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

Saying all this, I was still happy to see the potential of our "kids". In general I d think we have quite a bit of talent and a good list. We just need better leadership and better systems / discipline.
You take our team with most of the players fit and hand it to "horse" or Woosha etc. and you see a great change. I love Ratts as a person, but he is not a top coach. If we get the right changes in the football department and a whole pre-season, you will see a similar turn around like at the Crows. Actually think we have a better list than them.

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

mots wrote:

Psyc, I know your right in what you say. Confidence and self belief in anything you do is crucial to a successful outcome. I don't know whether the players believe in what Ratt's is trying to instill into them or not but there is definitely a lack of cohesion out there at present. From my observations he seems to shuffle the deck chairs an awful lot similar to what Danny Frawley used to do at Richmond before the crunch came. Maybe Ratt's is not sure either in what he is trying to do. Only the inner sanctum would know.

Exactly right. If you look at what's happened in games and each week we are trying something different and changing things all the time. Once sides picked us apart earlier in the year we were shot. Injuries have only hidden the truth.

Ratts has no set game plan. We are not well drilled in different situations. We aren't cohesive.

Go see Sydney, Collingwood, Hawthorn etc. they have a certain game style and plans that they stick to regardless. We don't.

I have said it on numerous situations when you have an inexperienced coach and an inexperienced list learning together it simply cannot work.

The club is rudderless.

A classic example is what has happened at Adelaide & Freo this year. They both had popular coaches, that worked hard and the players liked but now they have experienced coaches with set rules, structures and game styles they are much better sides.

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

mikkey wrote:

Saying all this, I was still happy to see the potential of our "kids". In general I d think we have quite a bit of talent and a good list. We just need better leadership and better systems / discipline.
You take our team with most of the players fit and hand it to "horse" or Woosha etc. and you see a great change. I love Ratts as a person, but he is not a top coach. If we get the right changes in the football department and a whole pre-season, you will see a similar turn around like at the Crows. Actually think we have a better list than them.

Hey! That's just what I wrote. :thumbsup:

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

ThePsychologist wrote:

mikkey wrote:

Saying all this, I was still happy to see the potential of our "kids". In general I d think we have quite a bit of talent and a good list. We just need better leadership and better systems / discipline.
You take our team with most of the players fit and hand it to "horse" or Woosha etc. and you see a great change. I love Ratts as a person, but he is not a top coach. If we get the right changes in the football department and a whole pre-season, you will see a similar turn around like at the Crows. Actually think we have a better list than them.

Hey! That's just what I wrote. :thumbsup:

But this time I was first..... :smoking:

ThePsychologist · **Joined:** Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 am **Posts:** 7893

I agree about the list. I listed a top 30 in the best 22 topic. Add a couple of recruits and some top kids based around a good and consistent game structure we could easily be top 4 in 2013.

teknodeejay · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:30 pm **Posts:** 2897

I'm not sure what the MC were planning during the week but it wasn't for Sydney that's for sure.

If they did they'd know that Sydney love to get the ball to the back of the contest and focus on quick movement by hand to clear congestion.

So instead of working out a way to try and stop that we let Sydney get quick handballs out.

We allowed Sydney to create a loose man in their D50 which destroyed us.

Couple that with our flapping crap disposal and its surprising that we could have been within 20 points if not for Bells lack of awareness not to kick the ball through the sticks and instead take a bounce 15 meters out

It turned into a 12 point play. Sayonara.

CK95 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:22 pm

Agree...how does Sydney's list stack up against ours? Not vastly better I would have thought. Roll on 2013...

teknodeejay · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:30 pm **Posts:** 2897

What's the status on Jamo?

Done like a Christmas turkey?

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

teknodeejay wrote:

What's the status on Jamo?

Done like a Christmas turkey?

Hamstring AFAIK so depends how bad. Anything from 2 weeks to rest of season I assume.

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:37 pm

mikkey wrote:

mots wrote:

Sydney , If our skills are rubbish how do we improve them.

Bad skills happen when there are no "easy" options to kick to and you are under pressure. The lack of system without the ball gets people to loose confidence and having no good options leads to mistakes. Todays game showed how a better set-up and work without the ball "nurture" skills. Look how well skilled we look when we dominate a game. It is not the "skill" itself.

When you 30 to 40 meters out in front of goal having a set shot and you miss everything or dont make the distance that is a skill error when you are 20 meters in the clear streaming forward and land it straight on a swan chest that is skill error
When you win a free kick in the centre and kick it out wide to 2 or 3 swans without a carlton player with in 30 meters that skills

When you look across field and see no options you kick it down the line to contest not stand there like a stunned rabbit and get caught

Scotland had 5 meters on and opponent and handballed back to no one except swans he could have kicked down the line to a 50/50

We have bad skills and bad decision makers you cant coach instinct and skills come from practice and that is an individual thing that players should take on board themselves

Im not mad on Ratten as a coach but there is some really bad footballers in that side

3 x no 1 picks and an Irish rookie is a better kick

Juddy&theKruezers · **Joined:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:12 pm **Posts:** 4426

Sydney Blue wrote:

mikkey wrote:

mots wrote:

Sydney , If our skills are rubbish how do we improve them.

Bad skills happen when there are no "easy" options to kick to and you are under pressure. The lack of system without the ball gets people to loose confidence and having no good options leads to mistakes. Todays game showed how a better set-up and work without the ball "nurture" skills. Look how well skilled we look when we dominate a game. It is not the "skill" itself.

When you 30 to 40 meters out in front of goal having a set shot and you miss everything or dont make the distance that is a skill error when you are 20 meters in the clear streaming forward and land it straight on a swan chest that is skill error
When you win a free kick in the centre and kick it out wide to 2 or 3 swans without a carlton player with in 30 meters that skills

When you look across field and see no options you kick it down the line to contest not stand there like a stunned rabbit and get caught

Scotland had 5 meters on and opponent and handballed back to no one except swans he could have kicked down the line to a 50/50

We have bad skills and bad decision makers you cant coach instinct and skills come from practice and that is an individual thing that players should take on board themselves

Im not mad on Ratten as a coach but there is some really bad footballers in that side

3 x no 1 picks and an Irish rookie is a better kick

So no way to improve those skills?....we just have a crap list?....

Gavstar22 · **Joined:** Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:18 pm **Posts:** 283

Our shepherding is feeble, any attempt made looks half hearted.

Still not working hard enough for teammates.

Sydney's work ethic and team culture is head and shoulders above us.

(Gibbs best carlton player according to afl.com......)

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:04 pm

Juddy&theKruezers wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

mikkey wrote:

[quote="mots"]Sydney , If our skills are rubbish how do we improve them.

Bad skills happen when there are no "easy" options to kick to and you are under pressure. The lack of system without the ball gets people to loose confidence and having no good options leads to mistakes. Todays game showed how a better set-up and work without the ball "nurture" skills. Look how well skilled we look when we dominate a game. It is not the "skill" itself.

When you 30 to 40 meters out in front of goal having a set shot and you miss everything or dont make the distance that is a skill error when you are 20 meters in the clear streaming forward and land it straight on a swan chest that is skill error
When you win a free kick in the centre and kick it out wide to 2 or 3 swans without a carlton player with in 30 meters that skills

When you look across field and see no options you kick it down the line to contest not stand there like a stunned rabbit and get caught

Scotland had 5 meters on and opponent and handballed back to no one except swans he could have kicked down the line to a 50/50

We have bad skills and bad decision makers you cant coach instinct and skills come from practice and that is an individual thing that players should take on board themselves

Im not mad on Ratten as a coach but there is some really bad footballers in that side

3 x no 1 picks and an Irish rookie is a better kick

So no way to improve those skills?....we just have a crap list?....[/quote]

It us something the individual player has to take upon themselves
Like a kicker in the NRL
A shooter in Netball
A golfer working on his swing
Skills come with practice practice practice
Not twitter twitter twitter

Bluey44 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:08 pm

FFS

Can people PLEASE stop praising us for putting up such a good effort against the "Top Team"

Sydney won a premiership in 2005 and now they are back up the top without bottoming out.

Why aren't we the top team?
Why do we always have excuses?

Today was predictably bland icing on a bland season.
Optimism is needed, but we also need to take a f-ing hard look at ourselves.

camel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:27 pm

mikkey wrote:

I thinks a game looks very different on TV compared to being there. Being present, what stood out for me was that the Swans always seemed to have more people around the contest and more options when moving the ball. We often stopped when getting the ball because there was no one to play to. It does not help that our delivery by foot was really bad.

What was the defining difference was that the Swans worked far harder off the ball. They ran harder and created the options. We did not and Murphy without the ball was disappointing and so were others. Our work rate was better the last 2 games and by not working hard by spreading or staying with your opponent made it so easy for them to control the game.

It was very frustrating to watch the non-ball carriers when Swans turned it over or we were playing out of defense. On the opposite scenario you have 4-5 Swans running hard leaving their opponents behind and opening us up like soft butter. They should have won by 10 goals but relaxed in the last qtr.

What I saw on the telly pretty much matched your description. Although, didn't get to see much of Murph off the ball, obviously, so thanks for the extra info.

Swans moved the ball too easily, too often today. Esp inside 50.

camel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:29 pm

BigKev wrote:

Oh - and I don't think anyone's mention it : Armfield.

Continue to be more and more impressed with this lad. Three highlights from him spring
to mind today. A great long running goal, (one/two's with his teamates). A great defensive
lunge to stuff up a Swan shot a goal. A very couragous running back with the flight attempt
at a mark, (clipped in the head and goaled from free kick).

He still stuffs up disposal from time to time, but less so. Faith has been shown in this lad and
he's getting better and better.

Yet, according to the Swans fans via twitter Army took a dive in that marking contest?! :lol:

aramari · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:31 am

Pklz wrote:

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Pklz wrote:

I was quite impressed with Davies given the limited time he had on the field.

Which of his changers impressed you the most?

He doesn't have a clanger next to his name. Embarrassing for you. Nice goal assist though.

To have a clanger you need to be able to gather the ball, not fumble, bumble, panic and flail.

17th Premiership · **Joined:** Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am **Posts:** 2770

Would have been nice to see some crumbers front & centre at marking contests.
More skill drills over summer.
More game plan drills (got to have a game plan + tools/appetite to adapt).

Love Casboult and Bell. Casboult/Waite/Walker/Eddie/Garlett could prove an awesome forward line next year. (I know Waite won't play for a whole year... so we have to rotate others through there: Henderson, Hampson, Waite, Mitchell, even Bell...?)

R19: Carlton vs Sydney (post match discussion)

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