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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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BigBlueWave wrote:
Anyway ... against Port we had 14 senior players unavailable ... against Geelong we will have 11. I know some of you blokes don't think that has any effect but I do. An argument can be mounted by saying we don't have enough depth ... and thats probably true ... but fair crack of the whip????


Those numbers seem very high, who are these 14 and 11 senior players that you speak of?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:16 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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woof wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
Anyway ... against Port we had 14 senior players unavailable ... against Geelong we will have 11. I know some of you blokes don't think that has any effect but I do. An argument can be mounted by saying we don't have enough depth ... and thats probably true ... but fair crack of the whip????


Those numbers seem very high, who are these 14 and 11 senior players that you speak of?



I stand corrected ... 13 last week ... 10 (possibly 11) this week.

Last week
Andrew Carrazzo, Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Nick Duigan, Lachie Henderson, Matthew Kreuzer, Jeremy Laidler
Marc Murphy, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Bret Thornton, Jarrad Waite, Simon White

This week
Andrew Carrazzo, Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Jeremy Laidler, Heath Scotland,
Marc Murphy, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Jarrad Waite, Simon White .... (possibly Thornton as well).

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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Posts: 21
moshe25 wrote:
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I give up.


Thats a slight over reaction IMO

Something wrong with having an opinion that differs from "the entire Club" is disfunctional thinking....

The club goes through a spell of 8 games and its lets open the flood gates and fix all the massive issues.

I dont believe its that complex but if you think so?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:33 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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BigBlueWave wrote:
woof wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
Anyway ... against Port we had 14 senior players unavailable ... against Geelong we will have 11. I know some of you blokes don't think that has any effect but I do. An argument can be mounted by saying we don't have enough depth ... and thats probably true ... but fair crack of the whip????


Those numbers seem very high, who are these 14 and 11 senior players that you speak of?



I stand corrected ... 13 last week ... 10 (possibly 11) this week.

Last week
Andrew Carrazzo, Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Nick Duigan, Lachie Henderson, Matthew Kreuzer, Jeremy Laidler
Marc Murphy, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Bret Thornton, Jarrad Waite, Simon White

This week
Andrew Carrazzo, Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Jeremy Laidler, Heath Scotland,
Marc Murphy, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Jarrad Waite, Simon White .... (possibly Thornton as well).

WTF does this have to do with the topic, let alone the title, of the thread??????????

Gee, has anyone seen the TV show Awake? It's really good. A pity they cancelled it after only one season, because I thought it was really quite good. Anyway, I reckon Julia might be lucky to make it to the next election. Do you guys prefer the iPhone or Android? I'm not sure. I've been using iPhone, but .....

I reckon New York is a much more interesting city than LA. But how much longer are the media going to keep saying Essendon* is brave?? Drives me crazy!!!

Concrete Blonde - Joey. I sometimes just play it continuously. What about you guys? What are you listening to? HDR really ruins many pictures. McLean?? You're kidding! Fast twitch muscle fibers!!! We got dudded by Adelaide over Sauce. Sauce? I read it in the Herald Sun. No, wait - I didn't. I wasn't willing to pay a penny to read that filthy rag!

Now, where were we? Oh yeah, the culture and environment of the Carlton Footy Club.... Ah, flower it. Who gives a shit?? Not this punter. I think I'll just go back to supporting the Zebras and wait patiently for the NFL to start, so I can watch my other team implode and make it a double for 2012..... GO COWBOYS!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Why isn't it topical? Because it doesn't fit your cutesy metaphor? Maybe the tank and water isn't really dirty, but the big fish all got a rare disease, and the little fish are finding it difficult to adjust?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Bruce Comben

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Was it just me or were early indicators of the culture and environment pre being smashed by Essendon* one resembling positivity and high engagement.....

Why was there no concern then - because all at the club seemed from the outside in felt good and positive about the future, there was a good feel about the club, a reasonable belief, a reasonable envirmonment....


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Gilly34 wrote:
Why isn't it topical? Because it doesn't fit your cutesy metaphor? Maybe the tank and water isn't really dirty, but the big fish all got a rare disease, and the little fish are finding it difficult to adjust?

The topic is the culture and environment of the Carlton Footy Club. The cutesy metaphor is irrelevant. There are a million threads devoted to why we lost to Port Adelaide. This isn't one of them.

I'm happy to debate the injuries and how missing Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Simon White from our best 13 players really impacted us causing us to lose by 9 goals against the 15th placed team, but not in this thread.

This thread is discussing why Carlton as a footy club has underperformed since 1995 (notwithstanding an unexpected GF in 1999 and some bad luck in 2000). Reducing it to what ailed us in one game, or in one set of games, or in fact in one season, loses sight of the bigger picture. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark.

And you know what? We might even win on Friday, and we might win the next four, and we might make the 8 after all, and we might even sneak into the top 4, and hope against hope, we might pull off a miraculous premiership, and then we might even win 3 in 5 years!! Well, I give you all carte blance to slag off at me and tell me I'm a flower-wit and see ME next Tuesday.

And believe me, I really am a rose-colored glasses supporter. Ask GWS. Ask Synbad. I always argue that it's not as bad as it seems. We had a nearest the pin sweep on Saturday night. Synbad won tipping Port by heaps. GWS was second tipping Port by 1. Everyone else tipped Carlton by a little bit. Moshe tipped Carlton by 60!!!!! Did my five bucks cold. And in all my 3 tipping comps, I'll probably tip Carlton on Friday. And I'll be there and get stuck into those supporters that leave at 3/4 time when we're 10 goals down, because since my first game in 1964, I have NEVER left a game early. And as I said to someone else on Saturday: "Doesn't matter where we are, I always think we're gonna win. I have these feelings. I'm a romantic. I reckon Ratts and Juddy will fire them up, and we'll smash 'em".

So that's me, my religion is Carlton, my family is Carlton, my grandson came to the Richmond game with me dressed up in Carlton gear - he was 10 weeks old at the time; Carlton is in my heart. But when I think with my brain, as opposed to my heart, and when I look with my eyes, I see something is not how it should be. And if we don't make a noise about it, it might go on for another 16 years. Because here's the fear I have:
- In 3 years, no more Juddy, Scotto, Simmo, Waite
- In 6 years, no more Walker, Murphy, Jamo
- If no success in next 2 years, great signings like today's won't happen, and this great bunch of kids we've been building since 2005, will fall apart, we'll bottom out, and have to start again - and then another 16 years doesn't seem so fancilful.

So, that's what I'm discussing. If you don't agree or you have another opinion - fine. Discuss it. Give me your views. But don't come into the thread talking about other stuff - we already have that covered......

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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moshe25 wrote:
Gilly34 wrote:
Why isn't it topical? Because it doesn't fit your cutesy metaphor? Maybe the tank and water isn't really dirty, but the big fish all got a rare disease, and the little fish are finding it difficult to adjust?

Quote:
The topic is the culture and environment of the Carlton Footy Club. The cutesy metaphor is irrelevant. There are a million threads devoted to why we lost to Port Adelaide. This isn't one of them.

I'm happy to debate the injuries and how missing Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Simon White from our best 13 players really impacted us causing us to lose by 9 goals against the 15th placed team, but not in this thread.

This thread is discussing why Carlton as a footy club has underperformed since 1995 (notwithstanding an unexpected GF in 1999 and some bad luck in 2000). Reducing it to what ailed us in one game, or in one set of games, or in fact in one season, loses sight of the bigger picture. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark.

And you know what? We might even win on Friday, and we might win the next four, and we might make the 8 after all, and we might even sneak into the top 4, and hope against hope, we might pull off a miraculous premiership, and then we might even win 3 in 5 years!! Well, I give you all carte blance to slag off at me and tell me I'm a flower-wit and see ME next Tuesday.

And believe me, I really am a rose-colored glasses supporter. Ask GWS. Ask Synbad. I always argue that it's not as bad as it seems. We had a nearest the pin sweep on Saturday night. Synbad won tipping Port by heaps. GWS was second tipping Port by 1. Everyone else tipped Carlton by a little bit. Moshe tipped Carlton by 60!!!!! Did my five bucks cold. And in all my 3 tipping comps, I'll probably tip Carlton on Friday. And I'll be there and get stuck into those supporters that leave at 3/4 time when we're 10 goals down, because since my first game in 1964, I have NEVER left a game early. And as I said to someone else on Saturday: "Doesn't matter where we are, I always think we're gonna win. I have these feelings. I'm a romantic. I reckon Ratts and Juddy will fire them up, and we'll smash 'em".

So that's me, my religion is Carlton, my family is Carlton, my grandson came to the Richmond game with me dressed up in Carlton gear - he was 10 weeks old at the time; Carlton is in my heart. But when I think with my brain, as opposed to my heart, and when I look with my eyes, I see something is not how it should be. And if we don't make a noise about it, it might go on for another 16 years. Because here's the fear I have:
- In 3 years, no more Juddy, Scotto, Simmo, Waite
- In 6 years, no more Walker, Murphy, Jamo
- If no success in next 2 years, great signings like today's won't happen, and this great bunch of kids we've been building since 2005, will fall apart, we'll bottom out, and have to start again - and then another 16 years doesn't seem so fancilful.

So, that's what I'm discussing. If you don't agree or you have another opinion - fine. Discuss it. Give me your views. But don't come into the thread talking about other stuff - we already have that covered......



Good on you Moshe. :thumbsup: Great post.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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BigBlueWave wrote:
woof wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
Anyway ... against Port we had 14 senior players unavailable ... against Geelong we will have 11. I know some of you blokes don't think that has any effect but I do. An argument can be mounted by saying we don't have enough depth ... and thats probably true ... but fair crack of the whip????


Those numbers seem very high, who are these 14 and 11 senior players that you speak of?



I stand corrected ... 13 last week ... 10 (possibly 11) this week.

Last week
Andrew Carrazzo, Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Nick Duigan, Lachie Henderson, Matthew Kreuzer, Jeremy Laidler
Marc Murphy, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Bret Thornton, Jarrad Waite, Simon White

This week
Andrew Carrazzo, Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Jeremy Laidler, Heath Scotland,
Marc Murphy, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Jarrad Waite, Simon White .... (possibly Thornton as well).


Your list of players out is embrassing....
Some have never even shown anything in the ressies.
Some woulldnt get a game
Some are always getting dropped.

WOW!!!.... just wow!!... thats all we have missing??

And were complaining??

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4426
Synbad wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
woof wrote:

Those numbers seem very high, who are these 14 and 11 senior players that you speak of?



I stand corrected ... 13 last week ... 10 (possibly 11) this week.

Last week
Andrew Carrazzo, Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Nick Duigan, Lachie Henderson, Matthew Kreuzer, Jeremy Laidler
Marc Murphy, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Bret Thornton, Jarrad Waite, Simon White

This week
Andrew Carrazzo, Levi Casboult, Marcus Davies, Jeremy Laidler, Heath Scotland,
Marc Murphy, Sam Rowe, Jordan Russell, Jarrad Waite, Simon White .... (possibly Thornton as well).


Your list of players out is embrassing....
Some have never even shown anything in the ressies.
Some woulldnt get a game
Some are always getting dropped.

WOW!!!.... just wow!!... thats all we have missing??

And were complaining??


I must say we do exaggerate who we have missing....we're even adding guys yet to play a game....how can you be missing someone who wasn't there to begin with?....for me the big outs are Murph(we were already playing crap before he was injured) and Laidler....the others are hit and miss and as sinners said even if fit would struggle to get a game....

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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wooooooosh


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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There is a half a dozen bone fide footballers in that list.
Its alot...

One of them is Kreuzer... we have 2 other ruckmen
2 of them are half back flankers... we have a score of them

Ok were missing 3 or 4...3 without waitey... the 3 year contract man....

But a baanced list wouldnt tip over and fall off the cliff.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Gilly34 wrote:
wooooooosh

wooooooosh me no woooooooshes. It didn't go over my head. I could say "wooooooosh". You've missed my point.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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moshe25 wrote:
Gilly34 wrote:
wooooooosh

wooooooosh me no woooooooshes. It didn't go over my head. I could say "wooooooosh". You've missed my point.


I'm not whooshing you :razz:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:05 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Regardless of the names of who is out, we have just come off a big loss and ignoring the maybes like Henderson who may or may not play injured, we only have Lucas and O'Keeffe as players with experience available to select from. Ie we are basically at our limit, stretched to breaking point.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Gilly34 wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
Gilly34 wrote:
wooooooosh

wooooooosh me no woooooooshes. It didn't go over my head. I could say "wooooooosh". You've missed my point.


I'm not whooshing you :razz:

Oops.. :oops: :oops: well then, you should now whooooooosh me...... I missed that. I think this is all getting to me.... Chillax Moshe - it'll all turn out!!! :smoking: :smoking:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:28 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Synbad wrote:
There is a half a dozen bone fide footballers in that list.
Its alot...

One of them is Kreuzer... we have 2 other ruckmen
2 of them are half back flankers... we have a score of them

Ok were missing 3 or 4...3 without waitey... the 3 year contract man....

But a baanced list wouldnt tip over and fall off the cliff.


The list is unbalanced. Errors along the way. Misread the talents on our list and what we required.

Synbad, Would you agree that we would play better if we had the team that 'comfortably beat collingwood' available at the moment?
.........just a little better.. maybe?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:53 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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moshe25 wrote:
WTF does this have to do with the topic, let alone the title, of the thread??????????

Gee, has anyone seen the TV show Awake? It's really good. A pity they cancelled it after only one season, because I thought it was really quite good. Anyway, I reckon Julia might be lucky to make it to the next election. Do you guys prefer the iPhone or Android? I'm not sure. I've been using iPhone, but .....

I reckon New York is a much more interesting city than LA. But how much longer are the media going to keep saying Essendon* is brave?? Drives me crazy!!!

Concrete Blonde - Joey. I sometimes just play it continuously. What about you guys? What are you listening to? HDR really ruins many pictures. McLean?? You're kidding! Fast twitch muscle fibers!!! We got dudded by Adelaide over Sauce. Sauce? I read it in the Herald Sun. No, wait - I didn't. I wasn't willing to pay a penny to read that filthy rag!

Now, where were we? Oh yeah, the culture and environment of the Carlton Footy Club.... Ah, flower it. Who gives a shit?? Not this punter. I think I'll just go back to supporting the Zebras and wait patiently for the NFL to start, so I can watch my other team implode and make it a double for 2012..... GO COWBOYS!!!!


Beautifully said. Williamstown over Gryffindor by 600 points. Sebastian Back to have the Quaffle on a string.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Posts: 6406
Moshee the word is inference
Something is wrong within the club.
Its been like this for a long time.
Last year we just wall papered over the cracks
Ratten met his KPI by smashing a pathetic Essendon*
BFD

The first thing you do is get rid of Kernahan and get someone whose has experience in looking after a multi million dollar company. Knows about getting ahead of the pack and pricks the imaginory bubble which gets people within the club thinking outside the Carlton culture
The fish rots from the head
Have a look at how Sticks got the top job
Have a look at how Ratten got his job
How easy it was
It inspires mediocrity
It filters down
Into the players veins
There simply wasnt any pride because ultimately the majority know they will play Friday night

Dont want to go on about Gibbs too much but seriously he has been pathetic this year and I reckon we havent got what we wanted from him so far.
So he gets a two year deal
@#$%&!
The players are too soft dont hurt enough after a loss
The coach says at 3 quarter time just go out and play footy
I say @#$%&! again
That is unbelievale form a senior AFL coach

How much more of this shit do we supporters have to put up with

Many supporters have blind faith
I dont. I know something is wrong and the frist thing you do is get a person who wont put up with this shit


Last edited by keogh on Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Horrie Clover

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Synbad wrote:
j.scarponi wrote:
Sticks is doing a crap job - like what? What decisions do you want him to make? Cant just say it and don't know what it is.

Name me one thing we lead the AFL in aside from debt.


Injuries

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