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Synbad
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
The sky fell?

and then/????

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verbs
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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We wept.
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Hornet
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
The sky fell?

and then/????

injuries...

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Juddy&theKruezers
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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verbs wrote:
We wept.

So we've been Aladeened or to be more up to date we've been scarponied....

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verbs
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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So what's the explanation for going from a kick from being in the top 4 to a likely 10th finish?
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j.scarponi
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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West Coast got the wooden spoon due to injuries and Woosha almost got the sack as did Bomber...when all their cattle were up and firing a year later they finished top four... coincidence?
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Juddy&theKruezers
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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verbs wrote:
So what's the explanation for going from a kick from being in the top 4 to a likely 10th finish?

Umps?....

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verbs
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Davies?
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GWS
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bluechucky wrote:
moshe25 wrote:
BOUNCE by Matthew Syed.

Read it. It will explain everything, particularly why Roos and Malthouse managed to win flags with less "talented" lists, and why Lyon almost won 2 flags with a list containing the likes of Blake and Dawson and Ray.


yeah I've bung on about that book to anyone who will listen too. Great read. Trying to get my hands on Outliers too which it references.


Outliers is good (I've read all the Gladwells and that's probably the best) but Bounce is extraordinary.

As far as I'm concerned Syed completely proves his argument with quite amazing evidence where Gladwell tends to riff on a theme and raise ideas.

Both good reads but Bounce is actually in the best five books I've ever read and I have a suspicion it may end up being one of those books that has real long term significance.

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hustla
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Call it whatever you want; systems, structures, game plans, when you go about divising your own strategy (coach), you have to know the positives and negatives of that strategy before you implement it. It is a basic principle in everyday life and in business.

In our situation it seems we are at a loss to combat the opposition's tactics against us even though they've been implemented against us since round four. Therein lays the problem.

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club29
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:58 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Pies have just lost pendles as well....that's basically their whole midfield taken out now....have a feeling they won't be shedding tears or using injuries as an excuse....


They did when we flogged them.
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verbs
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:59 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Pendlebury out, Swan in. Lucky buggers.
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Synbad
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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club29 wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Pies have just lost pendles as well....that's basically their whole midfield taken out now....have a feeling they won't be shedding tears or using injuries as an excuse....


They did when we flogged them.

sounds tough ... "Flogged them".......!!!

Problem is they steadied and we are dropping like ..........................a lead balooon.

but yeah.... "Flogged them"..... so cool....!!!... has a kind of cool snap to it... "We flogged them".... we flogged 'em!!"

We can now go around and say "We flogged youse!!"

:lol: :lol:

Just get your head around where were at.. and where theyre at since the "We flogged them"

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Roy
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:07 pm
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Ratten said at the pre season launch that he wanted the players peaking at the pointy end of the season.

We have had form dips in the 2nd half of each season for the past 3 years. Ratten knows what he is doing.
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club29
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:17 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Synbad wrote:
club29 wrote:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Pies have just lost pendles as well....that's basically their whole midfield taken out now....have a feeling they won't be shedding tears or using injuries as an excuse....


They did when we flogged them.

sounds tough ... "Flogged them".......!!!

Problem is they steadied and we are dropping like ..........................a lead balooon.

but yeah.... "Flogged them"..... so cool....!!!... has a kind of cool snap to it... "We flogged them".... we flogged 'em!!"

We can now go around and say "We flogged youse!!"

:lol: :lol:

Just get your head around where were at.. and where theyre at since the "We flogged them"


Go easy Synbad. Your mind is playing games on you there.

A comfortable 10 goal win then. Sorry if my terminology bothered you so much that it set you off.

My point is they used injuries as an excuse. You yourself even used it as an excuse for them. :lol:

Now you won't even admit that we would be a better team with Murphy Carrazzo Henderson Waite and Kreuzer in the team. Not even a little bit.
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BigKev
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Roy wrote:
Ratten said at the pre season launch that he wanted the players peaking at the pointy end of the season.

We have had form dips in the 2nd half of each season for the past 3 years. Ratten knows what he is doing.


They'll be the fittest spectators at the 'G the way they're going.
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Juddy&theKruezers
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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BigKev wrote:
Roy wrote:
Ratten said at the pre season launch that he wanted the players peaking at the pointy end of the season.

We have had form dips in the 2nd half of each season for the past 3 years. Ratten knows what he is doing.


They'll be the fittest spectators at the 'G the way they're going.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre
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Blueboy74
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Kouta wrote:
Blueboy74 wrote:
Kouta wrote:
WC weren't without Lynch, Darling and Kennedy. Club wouldn't have tipped Waite, Rowe, Casboult and Mitchell to all be unavailable at the one time. The Eagles' midfield has remained in tact


Kouta thats's assuming that Waite along with 3 guys that haven't played a game would have had any more of an impact anyway.

As for their midfield, we are missing Murphy and Carrazzo, yesterday they didn't have Shuey, but can still run with Priddis, Masten, Swift, Rosa, Selwood, Selwood, Kerr and Gaff. Then there is also Koby Stevens who cant break in there. Sure they lost to Brisbane yesterday, but it's the trend and not the one of effort that we are dealing with here.

Injuries would be an excuse for why we aren't going to win the flag, but not an excuse for not being able to be competitive against Adelaide and in particular Port.

Duigan, Laidler, Henderson, Waite would of course of made a difference at either end, but nothing would have changed in the middle. Even without Kruezer, Warnock/Hampson should still easily have covered for Renouf/Redden. If not, then why bother investing so much in draft picks etc on ruckman. Worrying that we got done badly by the Saints who went with Jason Blake, and Adelaide who went with our 4th choice guy from 2010.

Carrazzo/Murphy was all that missing from the midfield, and in fairness they were missing McCarthy who has been good all year and on top of that Boak has announced that he is going in for surgery to have a foot problem fixed that has been holding him back all year which makes the effort even worse.

Hartlett, Thomas, Stewart, Ebert, Cornes, Pearce, Broadbent even Pfeiffer! looking good against us cant all be traced back to injuries.

You're taking a liberty to say that Waite plus one power KPF wouldn't make a difference. No one tipped that Crameri would step up and be this good. Or that Dawes would help take the heat off Cloke and get a big defender. Even Leigh Brown played his role to a T as a ruckman/third tall forward. Not saying that Mitchell is a star, but he was reportedly looking good before his injury. Walker gave his contested marking a wrap before his latest injury. Think Casboult's marking was reportedly even better than Mitchell's. Structure was better in that final against WC with Setanta our tall target.


Fair enough, rather than saying that those guys wouldn't have made an impact, I should have said that we're assuming that they would have made the kind of impact that we would be expecting/demanding to reach our goal of a Top 4 side.

The names you mentioned we could liken Rowe to, but not Mitchell and Casboult. Brown had a stack of experience, and Crameri and Dawes were 22-23 before they made themselves known at AFL. Dawes' 2010 was his 3rd season, so I'd be saying that if we want to compare then we should be happy if Mitchell became a 30 goal key forward in 2014 taking into account that last year (and half of this year) has been a write off.

As you mentioned Brown played his "role" to a T, but that then takes us back to the talent, structures, roles, game plan, argument that we are always wondering if we actually have.

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verbs
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Judd no like structures:

Quote:
"If you're just standing in the spot, ticking off the structures, sometimes that can be lost. So if anything I think we should almost worry less about structures and more worry about playing with a bit of freedom, winning those critical contests and playing with reckless abandonment.

"Because, yes, while structures are important, structures don't pay the bills.''


http://m.news.com.au/Sport/fi1615806.htm
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Synbad
 Post subject: Re: System Vs Talent
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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the coach should talk about that!

Judd is saying the players are not playing with freedom?

wow!

what's he saying and whatever it is that's the coach job!

this is messy!

its a bit like us in tight! everyone is in there doing there own thing.

wow!

the club is suffering directional problems and totally stressing out!

dogs breakfast! sounds like leadership trouble and terrible communication and direction.
panic button has been hit!

Judd just overrode the coach and what he has been saying.

which goes to prove rats has lost control.

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