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teknodeejay
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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The biggest injuries are not physical ones. They are the mental injuries. And Carlton have plenty of them.

Weak, disinterested, no belief, no confidence... that's just the symptoms.

The root cause is the administration.

If we lose the next four on the trot as I suspect we might, shut the doors. Put in place a plan for 2013 and start playing it. Take as early a pick as you can get in this draft, and just sit it out for next year.

Ratten, you f***ed up... just admit it. Your grand plan A which has no B is done, and not even your players believe in it anymore.
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4thchicken
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Robert Walls

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We can now add scotland to the injury list - calf - 3 weeks
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mikkey
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Interesting, listening to the radio stations, I just laugh at the "experts". They are getting into the players, not the coach and that we have a worse list then Tigers etc. hey are so superficial and knee jerk. One thing I still cant understand is how well we played in the first few rounds and how bad we play now - effort wise.

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jim
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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4thchicken wrote:
On structure.

Prior to the start of the season, MOST people on this board would have had carlton's starting back 6 along the lines of

FB - laidler jamison touhy
HB - yarran henderson duigan

Anyone vehemently disagree with that?

Of the above back 6, laidler, henderson and duigan are injured atm and prior to the port game, Yarran had played <1 game in the past month due to injury (as a sub).

Of the options that would normally come in to fill up our back line, thornton, white and davies are all unavailable due to injuries.

Bower, watson and mccarthy (development player) were the only other defenders that were available - 2 of which played.

Again, does anyone disagree with that?

If you look up forward and our key forwards - prior to the season, MOST people would have had waite + one other tall as the key forward. True?

Assuming Rowe was the 1st choice to complement waite...
CHF - Waite - injured
FF - Rowe - unavailble

mitchell (2nd choice) - unavailable
casboult (3rd choice) - injured
kreuzer (4th choice) - injured
thornton (5th choice) - injured

Its basically hampson and not much else available to be picked atm.

Again - does anyone vehemently disagree with the above?


I agree wholeheartedly. Not only do we have injuries in our most important structural area we have important players with no real preseason. Not only that all our depth is injured. Sides can only cover injuries depending on who and what is injured. For example, Pies have 4 blokes that can play in key defensive positions well and still have their 2 big KP forwards, Pendlebury, Thomas etc...Not only that once these blokes get back it'll still take few weeks. It's that tough season every club moving up seems to have. Emotional ranters need to take a chill pill and b a bit more analytical. If people think we can cover all that and play well they're dreaming. If people think a coach, that took us from nothing to playing for top spot 3 weeks ago, is going to get sacked with those handicaps well really, they have no idea.

Only thing I will say is we can not fly the white flag and play with intensity. Mightn't win but try to do better.

Just heard on SEN Scotland is out for 3 weeks with a calf injury. Add another!
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frank dardew
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:07 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Well done 4th and Wookie for the case for the defence
I agree injury list shocking and of course objectively is having an impact
However when I saw the game last night it was very hard with the effort put in last night and the ineptitude of the structure ball handling and general football nous not to question what the hell is going on with players and coach -this is not an isolated instance
We have played one good match for the season against Collingwood
This club and team must do better the season is effectively gone and we have gone backwards from last year
No one should be able to hide -people blaming Watson and Bootsma is ridiculous -have a look at the end of the season at the coaches the senior and middle tier players and those in the board room
Talk to Malthouse Roos etc we need a circuit breaker
We still may limp into the finals maybe but after all those first round draft picks and rebuilding under Ratts we are not hard nosed enough strong enough in character nor seem to be at the cutting edge of football strategies or professionalism
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isdonis.george
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Location: Balwyn
Parko, Walls, Barassi are all strong communicators, clear firmly spoken, decisive.

Ratts is a good bloke but everything seems to be a bit this and maybe a bit that, I suppose,... probably ....

Juddy picked up the same mood in the presser.

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Synbad
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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isdonis.george wrote:
Parko, Walls, Barassi are all strong communicators, clear firmly spoken, decisive.

Ratts is a good bloke but everything seems to be a bit this and maybe a bit that, I suppose,... probably ....

Juddy picked up the same mood in the presser.



i suppose.......

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Donstuie
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Has anyone considered though that perhaps our injury problems are also symptomatic of bigger problems at the club? Year after year we lose key personnel, seem to have our team put out of balance regularly and "1-2 weeks" turning into "5-6 weeks". We always excuse our fitness staff, why?

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Rexy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:35 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Injuries don't help, but in our case the FD simply haven't got the 2012 strategy right it seems.

The playing group seems to have been physically trained and prepared for a certain game style that has been successfully nullified by opposition teams.

Seems our players aren't and haven't been prepared for the game style the opposition is successfully dictating to us.
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Effes
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Forget the injuries - there were some passages of play last night which to me indicated there are serious issues.

In the first quarter Garlett had a shot on goal from about 40m out and didn't even make the distance. We had no one on the goal line and Port took an uncontested mark. When you take a defensive mark on the goaline the umpire will instruct the forward to move back a few metres to give the defence a chance to kick out. Paul Bower was told repeatedly to move back a few metres. He did not respond to the umpire and the result was a 50m penalty to Port.

a) We didn't have anyone on the line when Garlett had his shot
b) Bower gives away a 50m penalty

a) and b) are nothing to do with football talent....all to do with how well a team is drilled. Doesn't matter if you are player #2 or #32!!!! They are @#$%&! basics of football and Bower has been in the system long enough to know better. Our other 'forwards' have been in the system long enough to know that you have someone on the goaline!

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Michael Jezz
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
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You explain to me how we went to wa in a final without Kreuzer, Gibbs, Waite, Jamison on one leg and Thornton knocked out and lost by 3 points, to then losing by 10 goals to port and I will consider injuries. We are gone as an organisation if we use injuries to mask poor coaching, player development and an indecisive board
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BigGartos
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
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frank dardew wrote:
Well done 4th and Wookie for the case for the defence
I agree injury list shocking and of course objectively is having an impact
However when I saw the game last night it was very hard with the effort put in last night and the ineptitude of the structure ball handling and general football nous not to question what the hell is going on with players and coach -this is not an isolated instance

Thanks 4th for a clear analysis of the injury situation and for your follow-up Wookie.
There is a bit of an aura about the idea of not using injuries as an excuse and it's funny how sensitive people are about not appearing to be doing it! But, there is a difference between using injuries as an excuse and using them as a factor in poor results. There is no question our injuries are a factor.
But as others have said, there is no excuse for the rubbish of the last month because these performances have many contributing factors, including lack of sustained effort, poor decision making on both sides of the fence and lack of playing for eachother: these are not injury related.
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Stefchook
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
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teknodeejay wrote:
If we lose the next four on the trot as I suspect we might, shut the doors. Put in place a plan for 2013 and start playing it. Take as early a pick as you can get in this draft, and just sit it out for next year.


I don't want to wait another 4 weeks. I want the plan for 2013 to start now. This year's already gone. With current injuries, form and complete loss of confidence, we're no chance against the good sides coming up.

I don't expect to win many more games now. I don't even care all that much if we win. But I want to see intent, hunger and aggression. I want to see fringe players tried, before they get delisted. And I want to see some kind of development plan for the future. On the ground and off.
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Stefchook
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 8163
frank dardew wrote:
We have played one good match for the season against Collingwood


For the season and the pre-season.

As someone else posted in one of the threads, for a team that almost got over West Coast and the umpires in an away final, with Gibbs, Kreuzer and Waite missing. And with Thornton off the ground injured before half time in that game. Things have fallen apart dramatically. And in an awful worry. Clearly something's wrong in the state of Denmark ...
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Rexy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Stefchook wrote:
teknodeejay wrote:
If we lose the next four on the trot as I suspect we might, shut the doors. Put in place a plan for 2013 and start playing it. Take as early a pick as you can get in this draft, and just sit it out for next year.


I don't want to wait another 4 weeks. I want the plan for 2013 to start now. This year's already gone. With current injuries, form and complete loss of confidence, we're no chance against the good sides coming up.

I don't expect to win many more games now. I don't even care all that much if we win. But I want to see intent, hunger and aggression. I want to see fringe players tried, before they get delisted. And I want to see some kind of development plan for the future. On the ground and off.

who's plan, is the question that has to be decided first - does a Ratten lead FD get another crack ?
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Blue Revival
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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injuries, yep, we've got plenty. But where is our on field leadership when the odds are against us? someone, other than Judd. i'm not seeing anyone lead the way. i find this very disturbing.

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Hornet
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Rexy wrote:
Stefchook wrote:
teknodeejay wrote:
If we lose the next four on the trot as I suspect we might, shut the doors. Put in place a plan for 2013 and start playing it. Take as early a pick as you can get in this draft, and just sit it out for next year.


I don't want to wait another 4 weeks. I want the plan for 2013 to start now. This year's already gone. With current injuries, form and complete loss of confidence, we're no chance against the good sides coming up.

I don't expect to win many more games now. I don't even care all that much if we win. But I want to see intent, hunger and aggression. I want to see fringe players tried, before they get delisted. And I want to see some kind of development plan for the future. On the ground and off.

who's plan, is the question that has to be decided first - does a Ratten lead FD get another crack ?

If we start to plan for 2013 now, it will just be another 'get out of jail free' card for the coached and MC...

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JK
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:37 pm 
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formerly Josh Kaplan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:19 pm
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What is the point of this thread? How does it help our current situation? Is it not just offering more excuses for a football club that is, by all measures, mediocre.
I remember when we lost the Brisbane final in 2009 we could all take solace in the far that we were 'building' and that 2010 would be better.
When we finished 2010 in the same position as 2009 we were told that 2011 will be better because we are gaining 'finals experience.'
When we went one step further in 2011 the sentiment was that 2012 is our year.

Meanwhile the same worrying patterns continue to present themselves.

We are still unable to handle any form of expectation, we are still too reactive in the coach's box, we have been unable to develop adequate midfield depth, we have no identifiable 'structure' either defensive or offensive, our players, for the most part, pick and choose when to go depending on the week and the opponent, we have been unable to string large brackets of wins together, we have failed to beat a real quality side at their best for as long as I care to remember.

Changes are a necessity.
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j.scarponi
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:38 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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West Ciast are in dire need of changes too - they lost to Brisbane.
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club29
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:40 pm 
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John Nicholls

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On paper last night our team looked rubbish. There was no reason to feel that it would beat Ports team. It was a terrible looking team and then on top of that the good names on the team sheet all played seriously bad games. So the ten goal loss is the result.

The fact that our team did look so bad even with the big 8 outs is the reason most are upset. Ratts has put his faith in the wrong bottom end players and some flaky top end players and that is his downfall. No plans or gameplans would work with last nights 22. Icke should be held responsible. List management has not been good. I am glad Icke is gone and can see why he was sacked. Hope Mckay can put things right.
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