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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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dooky wrote:
Interested to hear peoples thoughts on Thornton's standing in the team. I for one have done a complete 360 in my opinion on him (as I have with D Armfield).

The fact that he is no longer that no. 1 defender in a team that was getting flogged week in week out has done wonders for his confidence and it shows in his general demeanour on the ground. Body language much much better than it was back in those days.

He is the only true player that we can AFFORD to have do a job at either end when need be. (Waite can play in the backline but why would we do that, and Henderson can play forward but right now the more games he plays settled in defence, the better for his own confidence and long term worth to the team). Ratten talks about the need for players to be versatile and play in multiple for positions. For the most part I think its a rubbish thing to say because each player performs better in one specific position over another, however his comments make sense when injuries occur etc etc. I actually think Thornton is the one exception to this though.

As a forward, Thornton clearly gives us another important marking option down there, which we know we are thin on. Waite, resting ruck when he's not on the bench, and Walker as quasi-tall down there isn't enough and doesn't cause too much discomfort for opposition defences in terms of their own KPDs needing to match up. Thornton is the man to exploit matchups in our forward line and if not for himself then at least maybe he takes away a better defender from Walker.

He can mark over his head quite comfortably and is a decent set shot. Having said all this, his defensive pressure is where he leaves abit to be desired and needs to improve.

As we know, IF need be he can do a job in defence.

People knock him for his short pass 'sideways' game. I actually think he's one of the better kicks in the team for spotting up passes under 30m and to me it just shows he understands what tempo football means. Slowing things down can be just as important as all out attack if its an appropriate time in the game for it. Gibbs understands this too. Not everyone can and/or needs to be a linebreaker.

I don't think it necessarily comes down to a Thornton v Bower debate for a spot in the team. But if it does, would take Thornton every day of the week for the versatility he offers. Bower was great yesterday but his position is easily replaced by a Laidler, Duigan, Tuohy and even Russell :yikes: .

In a team light on with senior players, he at least brings experience to the table (almost notched up the 200 games) if not leadership.

We are not dealing with the pre 2011 Bret Thornton anymore, he is an entirely different proposition now.

Trust me I never ever ever thought I'd be saying this. Ever. But the guy needs to play each week from hereon in.


Yes, terrific contested mark one-on-one or in a pack, probably better than any we have when he's up forward. Adds the extra tall dimension I think we miss up forward.

After the smashing he gave Essendon* in the EF up forward they would've been happy he wasn't there. As good an exhibition of contested marking I had seen from a Carlton forward in ages in the EF.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:41 pm 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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So is this a fully ticketed match?

Bloody expensive just to reserve a seat even as a home & away member!!

Why do even bother paying for our memberships when you have to pay an additional $25!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Yazzamatazz wrote:
So is this a fully ticketed match?

Bloody expensive just to reserve a seat even as a home & away member!!

Why do even bother paying for our memberships when you have to pay an additional $25!!!!


I dont think it is Yazza, not for a Monday night anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:22 pm 
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formerly Yazzamatazz
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Cool, I hope not.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:14 am 
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Horrie Clover
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In: Judd, Waite, Curnow
Out: Lucas, Bootsma, Armfield

Lucas - not doing enough or showing enough desire, happy to cruise around looking for uncontested posessions, GWS 1st year midfielders made him look very average and just one posession in the second half was a disgrace.
Armfield - looks ordinary since the Coll injury and must be hampered as he has lost his zip.
Bootsma - junior

I'm guessing that StKilda will try and choke the game down with massive numbers and congestion around the ball so it will be tough, our players dont like this type of game at all.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:05 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Megaman wrote:
What exactly happened to his foot?

I heard someone say he has a bit of toe.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:07 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue Tongue wrote:
In: Judd, Waite, Curnow
Out: Lucas, Bootsma, Armfield

Lucas - not doing enough or showing enough desire, happy to cruise around looking for uncontested posessions, GWS 1st year midfielders made him look very average and just one posession in the second half was a disgrace.
Armfield - looks ordinary since the Coll injury and must be hampered as he has lost his zip.
Bootsma - junior

I'm guessing that StKilda will try and choke the game down with massive numbers and congestion around the ball so it will be tough, our players dont like this type of game at all.

All the more reason to retain Armfield. He loves the hard, close stuff and has the pace to break free of it.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:32 am 
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Harry Vallence
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I would like to see both Ellard and Curnow in the team.

out- Bower, Bootsma and Duigen

in- Waite, Judd and Yarran

Duigen has been out of sorts and needs to find some form in the VFL. Russell is in better form.
Bootsma is obvious and Bower played ok against GWS (wowee) but I still think Thornton is ahead of him.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:44 am 
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John Nicholls

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TheSwan wrote:
I would like to see both Ellard and Curnow in the team.

out- Bower, Bootsma and Duigen

in- Waite, Judd and Yarran

Duigen has been out of sorts and needs to find some form in the VFL. Russell is in better form.
Bootsma is obvious and Bower played ok against GWS (wowee) but I still think Thornton is ahead of him.


I guess Ellard can do what Carrazzo does and Curnow can do what he has been doing so the balance isnt really thrown out providing we surround them by quicks like AJ , Armfield and Garlett. I still worry that the lack of pace leaves holes in our defence. Perhaps that wont be such a worry on ES. Other than that those changes sit ok with me.
Id even look at using TBird as Sub so we have loads of run from the start and TBird as insurance for a tall at either end.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:49 am 
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Harry Vallence

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TheSwan wrote:
Bower played ok against GWS (wowee)


Meanwhile Ellard, fighting for his spot picked up 14 touches in 96% TOG.

Bower stood up in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when the rest of the team was down, and Ratts gave him 4 votes.
There are a lot of players to drop before him.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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I would actually consider bringing in Brock for Ellard to go head to head with Hayes (ducks for cover)


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:11 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Jez1966 wrote:
I would actually consider bringing in Brock for Ellard to go head to head with Hayes (ducks for cover)


Surely you jest?

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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jake_h03 wrote:
Jez1966 wrote:
I would actually consider bringing in Brock for Ellard to go head to head with Hayes (ducks for cover)


Surely you jest?


No, he has been playing well in the seconds, had the week off last week so will be fresh (just like Judd) and has the body to match Hayes in close and both not overly quick (so they have that in common).


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:22 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Jez1966 wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Jez1966 wrote:
I would actually consider bringing in Brock for Ellard to go head to head with Hayes (ducks for cover)


Surely you jest?


No, he has been playing well in the seconds, had the week off last week so will be fresh (just like Judd) and has the body to match Hayes in close and both not overly quick (so they have that in common).


He has been dominating the 2s since he came to Carlton and is yet to show he can match afl intensity and speed. I've been extremely patient with Brock. Everytime he goes back and tears up the 2s and then gets picked for the seniors I get excited that this time will be different, and everytime I'm left disappointed and reminding myself not to get sucked in next time.

Lenny is in great form, he's st kildas most important player and putting Brock on him is straight from the blueprint of how to lose this game

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Blue Tongue wrote:
In: Judd, Waite, Curnow
Out: Lucas, Bootsma, Armfield

Lucas - not doing enough or showing enough desire, happy to cruise around looking for uncontested posessions, GWS 1st year midfielders made him look very average and just one posession in the second half was a disgrace.
Armfield - looks ordinary since the Coll injury and must be hampered as he has lost his zip.
Bootsma - junior

I'm guessing that StKilda will try and choke the game down with massive numbers and congestion around the ball so it will be tough, our players dont like this type of game at all.


Armfield, oh FFS..


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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jake_h03 wrote:
Jez1966 wrote:
I would actually consider bringing in Brock for Ellard to go head to head with Hayes (ducks for cover)


Surely you jezt?


efa

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blues Clues wrote:
Blue Tongue wrote:
In: Judd, Waite, Curnow
Out: Lucas, Bootsma, Armfield

Lucas - not doing enough or showing enough desire, happy to cruise around looking for uncontested posessions, GWS 1st year midfielders made him look very average and just one posession in the second half was a disgrace.
Armfield - looks ordinary since the Coll injury and must be hampered as he has lost his zip.
Bootsma - junior

I'm guessing that StKilda will try and choke the game down with massive numbers and congestion around the ball so it will be tough, our players dont like this type of game at all.


Armfield, oh FFS..


I think Lucas has trouble running out a game and if you watch the GWS game he had a heap of possies in the first 1/4 and a half and kicked 2 goals.

I'd keep him in the 22.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Blue Tongue wrote:
In: Judd, Waite, Curnow
Out: Lucas, Bootsma, Armfield

Lucas - not doing enough or showing enough desire, happy to cruise around looking for uncontested posessions, GWS 1st year midfielders made him look very average and just one posession in the second half was a disgrace.
Armfield - looks ordinary since the Coll injury and must be hampered as he has lost his zip.
Bootsma - junior

I'm guessing that StKilda will try and choke the game down with massive numbers and congestion around the ball so it will be tough, our players dont like this type of game at all.

All the more reason to retain Armfield. He loves the hard, close stuff and has the pace to break free of it.


Armfield looked very fast last week. Watched the replay a coupla times, and his pace was important.

Agree with BS. Even more important in this game when you need fast players to break through Lyon's net...which our pace will stretch imo...that is if we pick players with pace.

Lucas hasn't done that much for me in the H & A, and imo hasn't really lived up to the form he showed throughout the preseason (ref: Harker). I'm sticking with him (thus far) because I want to see that pace of his create some havoc on the opposition. Does seem to be a bit of spectator. But, like all kids, the more games you put into them the better product they will become.

Geez Bootsma looked good last week, but then again in that last quarter we pressed the shit out of the Giants and Bootsma wasn't really tested defensively. Beautiful run and one two doen the wing.

I don't think the MC will risk Yarran, but am led to believe Waite, Judd and Curnow will be selected.

I'm guessing the great game Bower and Russell played last week will be rewarded, as I think both of them in form will be valuable to the team now and in the finals.

I'm guessing that Bootma, Ellard (despite highest tackle count) and Joseph will be ommitted, (and I also though Joseph's running and linking game was very good, and he too looked to be in form, albeit against the cellar dwellers.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
Given Dennis restricted Scully to 13 possessions last week, it's safe to say he'll be playing.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Blues Clues wrote:
Blue Tongue wrote:
In: Judd, Waite, Curnow
Out: Lucas, Bootsma, Armfield

Lucas - not doing enough or showing enough desire, happy to cruise around looking for uncontested posessions, GWS 1st year midfielders made him look very average and just one posession in the second half was a disgrace.
Armfield - looks ordinary since the Coll injury and must be hampered as he has lost his zip.
Bootsma - junior

I'm guessing that StKilda will try and choke the game down with massive numbers and congestion around the ball so it will be tough, our players dont like this type of game at all.


Armfield, oh FFS..


And your changes this week are......?


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