SOMEBODY has to be held responsible for our sudden lack of success after the early promise.

If it was a normal Company with falling sales; you'd be after the Sales Manager....if the books didn't balance...The Accountant.

Ultimately though; the buck stops with the President (with appologies to Harry Truman).

I've never been a follower of "'The Boys Club'' running the CFC mantra; but I'm starting to wonder.

Yes; I know we're in the 8.....but is that all there is?......I'm apprehensive about this Essendon* match; let alone a Final.

Unfortunately; I've been spoiled when I recall Grand Final Days when Carlton had the Firsts...Seconds, and Thirds competing.

Now......we've got a Reserves side that's playing similar footy to the Seniors....is David Teague the answer?

It's as though a disease has spread through the whole Club; where despair and ennui has replaced flair and enthusiasm.

Even if we win this week; I'll still be convinced that we need a complete cleanout.....prove me wrong guys!

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

actually Josh I wouldn't have a clue if Ratts can coach or not

but I do think as an untried coach he must be given time and allowed to @#$%&! up

to just cry sack the coach doesn't do it for me - I understand the pain of losing, I @#$%&! hate it.

but to sack the coach may do nothing more than extend the years of not being a serious contender

while i do think the club as a whole has serious issues and if you go right back I have always agreed with people like Synners about Sticks

I actually think he needs to be removed before anything else...Its not that I know anything about presidents either

but

Brittian Pagan Ratts whose next
is begining to feel a bit Richmondish

we need to change the culture of this club

i think that has nothing to do with Ratts as a coach


and I have always thought Ratts needed experience around him as he develops.


hope that clarifies things


oh and if you sat behind me on saturday you'd have heard me screaming 'Sack Ratts!!!!'

footy does that to you.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

The sack the coach line is lame. Someone even wanted him to fall on his sword. Great stuff !

The players are already mentally soft. Time to pander to them once more some suggest. Or worse send them the message that if things are not going to plan just quit. Lame lame lame.

For once i just want the club to roll up its sleaves and work work work . No looking for easy answers or attempted shortcuts or passing the blame or making a stupid decision just to please the goons in the outer.

Would be great if the supporters got behind the coach and pushed the players to lift and work their hearts out to get out of this mess.

The tired old line of "we are turning into richmond " normally makes me roll my eyes but this time it suits the situation. We really are turning into richmond.

Danny - Ratten has had 3 years now to show that he has what it takes as a coach. Twice his contract has been extended before it should have been (not his fault) without him showing any worth. The question is how much time you give him, given that if he is not the answer, then we risk blowing a Premiership window because the players aren't developed properly. Already there are disturbing signs from players like Gibbs and Murphy in how they play, signs that we desperately don't want to become habits.

IMHO, Ratten has shown nothing, and we cannot afford to waste another year finding out what we almost certainly already know.

Your comparison to Richmond is unfortunately too close to the truth, and that is disturbing. The whole culture must change, starting at the very top. We agree on that. Kernahan must go, I've been saying that for years (I voted against him when the Collins board challenged the Elliott board in 2002, and voted against him the last time he was up for re-election). There needs to be a shake-up of the entire Board, and the '95 clique disbanded. I worry that Ratten is part of that clique. I worry about how much say Fraser Brown has behind closed doors.

Josh - you heard anything besides there being a revue at season's end?

Club29 - I agree we need to roll up our sleeves and work, but we need the right people driving that. And part of the work, work, work ethic is not taking short cuts. That means if they do decide to change coach, they do a proper, thorough, exhaustive search, not jobs for the boys. In fact, we've never done an exhaustive search.

It also means not trying to buy our way out of this (Pavlich).

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Will Ratts conduct it? Or Sticks?

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"I had to eat"

Well maybe if Ratten starts showing balls and dropping big name players at the expense of short term gains, more supporters would rally behind him. This week it should be Gibbs. he can rot in the ressies until he realises that Ratten, unlike all the other coaches he's ever had, aren't just seduced by his skills. I'm guessing he's had it easy all his life and no one has challenged him. And if he sooks, trade him. Let's stand for something FFS.

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If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!

Who is gonna do the review Doc. ?

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All my dangerous friends

he's had 3 years

and until 7 weeks ago everyone was astonished at the improvement

now he has hit the wall - so have the players

can he and they overcome it?

we shall see

but whether he does or not

our window ain't open for 2 more years so that's just bullshit about the window.

for @#$%&!'s sake get a grip. We haven't even got a forward line ready for finals yet and you're thinking the window is open.

It isn't

and that aint no fault of ratts

and i still insist if ratts is the wrong man

and his contract was wrongly extended twice

why would you want to ditch him and let the same people choose the next man!!!!!!!!

it just seems farcical to me.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Didn't say our window was open Danny, I said we risked blowing a window. Apologies, maybe I wasn't as clear as I should have been. What I meant is that if we don't get the right development into the players now, we risk not having a window in the future. I have said a number of times on the forum that I think our window is at least 2-3 years away.

They say in football that if you focus on the process, the results will come. I agree with this. But what if the process itself is wrong? This is my worry.

I was not astonished at the improvement until 7 weeks ago. I didn't think we were brilliant in round 1, we were crap for 3/4 in round 2 and were awful in round 3. Round 4 (Adelaide was ok, but we were lucky Adelaide didn't kick straight). Rounds 5 and 7 are obviously the standouts, where we played great football. Round 6 we were terrible (Collingwood) for 3.5 quarters. We were lucky to beat Port in round 7 (1 good quarter of football). Hawthorn we were awful, and the win against WC was pedestrian. Melbourne wa also ordinary till Judd stepped in, and since North, well, we all know what's happened.

The truth of the situation is that we have won 9 games and lost 9 games. None of the games we have lost were 'honourable losses', and we were spanked in many of them (Collingwood twice, Dogs, Sydney, Hawthorn, North). Of the games we have won, you could argue that we played well in 3 (Rich, Geel and St K), and prety average in the rest (Bris, WC twice, Melb, Adel, Port). To me, that's a pretty uninspiring season, especially if you take away the Geel and St K games (which of course you can't, and shouldn't. But perhaps they do cloud the story). Never have I thought or said that our improvement was astonishing.

And I have been saying for years that we need to get rid of Kernahan. IMHO, they both need to go.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

Let's get Vossy to do it

[/quote]
Well maybe if Ratten starts showing balls and dropping big name players at the expense of short term gains, more supporters would rally behind him. This week it should be Gibbs. he can rot in the ressies until he realises that Ratten, unlike all the other coaches he's ever had, aren't just seduced by his skills. I'm guessing he's had it easy all his life and no one has challenged him. And if he sooks, trade him. Let's stand for something FFS.
[/quote]



Ratten's inability to get through to his players is my main gripe along with the non-existant gameplan and forward structure. Gibbs has been poor to very poor in most games this season and he remains an untouchable. I don't believe that he has ever lined up for the Bullants since arriving at the club and maybe believes that he is above all that. Time to take the opportunity to bring him back to earth I believe. A strong coach would do this, Ratts won't therein lies the problem.

Maybe he is being primed for a trade to the Coast or Adelaide (Dangerfield & Tippet thanks!!) either way this must have an effect on team moral and the other players.

I have heard that self-confidence and belief are at all time lows and this also reflects on the coaches ability to motivate and support his group. Players are literally paralysed with fear of failure and are playing self protective footy ignoring the team and looking after number one. A strong coach wouldn't put up with this and turn it around. It seems that Ratten and his assistants have no idea on what to do.

I agree with this...

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre

Ratt's press conference after the game is effectively his last roll of the dice. I am sure in a few of the losses prior to this game he felt like publicly berating the players but has decided to protect them. This time he has publicly called them insipid and soft to everyone in the football world. If the players this Friday and for the remainder of the season don't respond in an appropriate manner then he is a dead duck.

Ratten is a problem but it won't make a difference if we replace the coach without surrounding him with top assistants and a good tackling coach. The other key issue is we have too many board members who have no real football experience. The best and brightest Carlton people: Walls, Maclure, Ahmed Farrad to name a few have nothing to do with the club. Wayne Hughes and Justin Cordy get pass marks in my opinion.

This passage from Doc is one thing that has been sticking in my head the last few days. Been studying leadership as part of my masters recently so its caught my eye.
Heard a "snipit" on MMM this morning where they played a sound grab of Danny Giansiracusa talking about Leading Teams and the work they did at the Bulldogs.

Hi statement was along the lines of "Leading Teams works well if ALL the players and coaches embrace it". Obviously!! He also mentioned how it was confronting to the players and used of an example of how they confronted Brad Johnson and his "issue" of trying to win games off his own boot. Now he's become more a team player etc etc etc.

I can see how, if this program isn't embraced by ALL, relationships between players and coaches can quickly become damaged. Now i'm not saying this has happened, but something like this could easily happen if some of our boys are too "precious" or not man enough to take on this confronting type of leadership/ownership.

Who the heck is Ahmed Farrad?
Are you trying to say Ahmed Fahour?

And what position did HE play?

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/

I think we all agree that Farrad has gone backwards under Ratten.

Farrad was a disgrace to the Carlton jumper. Their was know more soft unaccountable hack then him. He should of been traded. And We would of never of one a premiership with him. And any1 who disagrees has serious mental issues (with apologies to really wealthy posters who earn more in a minute than Visy has assets)!!!

_________________
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!!

After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F .........
Visit http://fromthemoshpit.com/