I think went Waite went down we had to put Thornton back as a true defender more and we lost his drive. Yes Bower delivers substantial run but you have to be mindful that he's also taking KF#1 (Franklin) and some times will be limited in his ability to run off. That being said God Love him he keeps on running.

So yes we did have such a defender but IMHO we lost a lot of run from defence overall.

Fair enough. There's good and bad chipping though I guess - you can make ground with the little chip kick but if you're not challenging the defensive zone with either upfield movement or good aggressive movement from the defenders (either making ground with running or with a direct kick). You see the Swans go their sweeping left footers to cross the field and make good aggressive distance.

You just can't stop the Bower from rebounding no matter who he plays on and whatever your perception is. Bower breaks lines, so does Russell in the last 8 rounds (post Waite).

Rebounding didn't just die or subside when Waite got injured as well as Jamison too.....Army does breaks lines too. Add Scotto....perception is reality Molsey. Sure we lost it from Waite but we didn't lose it from the backline in general.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Yes but that's not really a chip, it's more of a sweep. Not enough sweepers in the backline. Russel's the only one cleaning house. Everyone else is off playing golf.

_________________
STURDYISM!!

A week ago I read Ratten had no gameplan. This week I learn he has.

1 week is a long time on Talking Carlton.

Bring on the Tigers

_________________
Delulio is a member of TISM

yes, I didnt explain myself correctly. The chip and the sweep are the mechanisms of the switch or attempted set-up. We have some chip kickers and the time in the air those kicks take frustrate us all and dont really look like they're setting anything up. The good directed kicks to strong leads or advantaged situations are what its all about in these Hawks / Swans / Saints game plans.

Agree, we rarely kick in front of someone on a lead.

Its often kicked on their heads, where the opposition can easily spoil.......

Bondi, perception is reality but my perception is different to yours. No doubt we have players who break the lines, can break the lines, but if we play Armfield as hard tag, Joseph on hard tag, Bower on the best defender and we accept Jamison doesnt attract the ball (avg 8 stats per game or so) then we lose drive. Russell can break the lines with his top notch kicking but he does suffer, as we all do (and one of the key themes of this thread) that his 40 metre passes either foot might only make 10 metres in territory.

My view is from mid-year last year, after Waite's injury, we lost drive and direction from defence. It could have been Coaches blocking us better but when Thornton had to go to key defence rather than the floating 3rd defender, we lost drive. His stats, as did Bowers, dropped after that phase.

I never said drive dropped away entirely but said that we missed Waite from defence (and from all over really). No doubt Bower likes to run with the wind and nothing will stop that.

While the defence did well last year there's always a lot of improvement in how we can use possession that we get in the back half to set up well to half forward. The Swans game didnt show me much improvement, but you were there and i was interested in your comments in the game review. It also looked like a thin ground on TV so I wasnt sure if that was a factor (Cobwebs also a factor).

Fair enough and you're right perception is an individual thing.

I don't think we lost drive from defense so much so that the defense came out of the defensive half with no direction.

I thought the major problem was more to do with the 'go to men' and their average efforts with positioning and presentation of a target for the defenders to go to.

But you are right we did lose Waite's influence everywhere.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Again I probably agree with the general theme of your post there Teddy, just not some of the fine detail


Agreed that players aren't rocket scientists (although how many people are ) but I do think that football as it stands now requires players to think about the game more than ever before. Thus the snazzy little lecture theatres. It must come as a shock for many of those who snuck out the back to have a kick instead of concentrating on the homework.. make it to the AFL...and back to school and tactics lessons You can't dumb it down too much because other clubs aren't. Just need those leaders I mentioned in an earlier post to keep those slow learners up to scratch

Some of that is about players getting stuck in the process and losing sight of what the process is actually trying to achieve

Interesting topic, apologies for not reading all of the history. As a Mr average out in suburbia, I cant remember a pre-season so dull and uninspiring. Even when we were getting pole-axed in the pagan years there was always some kind of story to keep us punters rolling up. Maybe I am sooo far out in suburbia that I've missed it all but this year there has been nothing, no encouraging signs, no new players that appear better than expected and worthy of genuine excitement, nothing except a sigh of releif that we arent being dragged through the gossip columns since dumping Fev, well at least I've seen nothing anyway.

Obviously there are the reports of February Brownlow medallists, record skinfolds etc but every year you hear about these. Every draftee is a steal, every player sets a PB on the training runs, this happens every year in the media. I hope that this is all part of some larger deception plan by the Carlton brains trust because as Mr Joe average there isnt much to get excited about. Some of the posters on here rate their reason for excitement as being that there is a chance we could go either way, good or bad! I dont want that, I want to be excited becauser I know I get to roll up every week and watch our boys smash whatever mob of dolts they roll out against us!! I dont get excited by a chance that we might go backwards! I get excited because I want to see results, I want to get arrogant again, I want to laugh at St Kilda supporters again, I'm sick of talking about our team in terms of how much potential or good they are GOING to be!!!

In 30 something years I cant remember a season where I have been so uninspired. Normally I am counting down the minutes to the 1st game and agonising over the team. This year I cant even get excited about that. This year I'm hoping for the best but expecting worse than last year. Frankly, after the trough we've been through I was hoping for a little more than a development year, especially after last year's encouraging improvement.

_________________
"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

I blame the retirement of Mike & Dan for the lack of pre-season fluff articles to which you refer.

I must be old because I remember a time when you didn't even start thinking of footy until the beginning of March and no one gave a hoot about what was happening preseason

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Nah...they were never very good...welll - I guess Dan was ok...but Mike? Fluffier than a poodle in a mohair bodywarmer eating a french omelette.

No arguments here

I do feel however that the absence of Mike & Dan will cost the club at least 5000 members.

funny how football can do this to a man.

Modern technology allows for ease of communication on a massive scale.

The lack of meaningful communication (other than the increasing pleas for money) with members at grassroots level is, IMO, poor and in large taking them totally for granted.

The lack of communication together with the erosion of grassroots democracy is my reason for not renewing.

While membership levels may reach last years figures, I'd suggest they'd reach far greater heights with greater respect and effort directed at grassroots supporters Australia wide.

_________________
There's so much I could say...

im more excited for the start of the formula 1 season this weekend than the start of the footy season in a few weeks

_________________
*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Wait until the shower pic`s come out. We will be glad we got rid of them.