Thank goodness TC has not completely let go of its senses.

I did a double take thinking this was a "trade Judd" thread.

I thought surely we need to wait until at least round 3 for that sort of big call.

Carry on...

The thing about Judd though is that he's 27 this year. You'd think trading away all that for Juddy means our premiership window lasts as long as him. We effectively closed our premiership window for at least two years with the trading of Fev. So IMO when we went for Juddy that should have locked in Fev for the remainder of his career. We could win a premiership with both maybe, but most definitely not with just the one of them. With things being the way they are now (no Fev) I would give Judd straight back for Masten, Kennedy and whoever they picked up with 17 because those players would have a better chance (greater window of opportunity) of taking us to a premiership. Lets face it, Juddy has three years max at his best. Do you honestly think we'll win the big one in the next three years? If we don't, the Judd trade will be a failure. The board/MC have contradicted themselves bigtime on this one.

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

Two great things have happened at the Carlton Football Club in the last 10 years.
1. Richard Pratt's return.
2. The recruitment of Chris Judd.

One man has left a legacy off field and the other will leave a legacy on field and I am not just talking about how he plays football.

Ans the saddest thing is that Carlton did not sort the Fevola problem earlier.

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"our electorate seeks less to be informed and more to be validated." Sad times.

Did not sort the Fevola problem earlier

How about we all agree that when Fev f*cks up again that he was unsortable.

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

Judd's influence on this team will continue long after he's retired.

He was brought in not just for his superlative footballing ability, but to provide "do as I do" leadership for the likes of Murphy, Russell, Gibbs, Kruezer, Yarran, Joseph, Armfield, Etc, Etc, Etc.

The guys of that age are the ones who'll be in their absolute prime when Juddy is on his last legs, and they'll be the ones who'll be delivering us (hopefully) a premiership or two.

And they'll also be the ones who'll be mentoring the next generation of Blues... kids who are currently 13-15 years old.

After the club's appalling job at list-management, we were left with a massive leadership vacuum, and we risked bringing in a whole bunch of talented youngsters, and never developing them to their full potential.

Judd was/is an important plank in that. He helped us out of a very dangerous spiral.

Sure it sucks that we had to give up a couple of quality youngsters to get him, but no matter how much Kennedy and Masten (or I guess Rhys Palmer) develop, we need to understand that we really had no choice. No choice at all.

Please.

Did we trade for Shaun Burgoyne or Chris Judd?

You're blithely assuming that Fevola would have had his best ever seasons in 2008 and 2009 without Judd playing with him.

Gibbs, Murphy, Kennedy and Palmer would have us struggling to a bottom three finish like Richmond with Deledio, Cotchin, Vickery and Martin.

If we were still a bottom side and a leaderless rabble like Richmond, I wouldn't hesitate to give up Kennedy and pick three (or Henderson and pick 12) to bring Judd to Carlton to sort us out on the field. Everyone is obsessed with being good in three to ten years and not winning games that helps fast track the development of Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer, Yarran, etc.

You need to picture how supporters would post if we had Palmer and Kennedy instead of Judd, but were a bottom side.

They can't even take losing a rising 29 year old moron who could play for Henderson and Lucas.

Deep. Well said

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

That's all fine but did you guys actually read my post or did you just see it as an attack on Judd (which it isn't). I'm merely pointing out that the board have contradicted themselves with the trading of Fev. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

Lets just wait until end of year.

Nobody knows what will happen in 2010 without Fev, it's all based on assumptions at this stage.

what i read into woosha's comments:

1) open endorsement to tanking

2) tacit expression of blues fair trade policy with respect to the judd trade ... explicit acknowledgement would be far too fuzzy and warm for woosha. footy therapy is far better served by firstly squealing how you was robbed, then shouting from the rooftops that you're better off now so eff off ...

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... an eagle flew out of the night. he was something to observe, came in close i heard a voice, bending stretching every nerve, had to listen had no choice ...

What a load of crap. It is this type of attitude which has lead to Fev thinking he is untouchable and can do what ever the hell he wants, no matter who he hurts or how bad it reflects on the club. The guy was on his LAST CHANCE and went out and made an absolute idiot of himself and the club at the Brownlow (and no, I don't think for a second that we have heard about everything he got up to that night)

And we didn't just recruit Judd to open up the premiership window. In my eyes it was more about getting leadership into the club, someone who can show the young guys how it is done and get the most out of them. Do you REALLY think that both Murphy and Gibbs would have polled equal 9th at the Brownlow without Judd's influence at the club ???

It was also during the initial stages of the club addressing the player's culture at the club (we have all heard about the "no more fries" story). Pratt brought the swagger back to the club, and a level of off-field professionalism which wasn't there before. Judd has done the same for Carlton, bringing a level of on-field professionalism which just wasn't there before he came to the club. It is for this reason that KEEPING Fev would have been a contradiction to the statement that the MC/board made when they recruited Judd. Instead of reinforcing the new level of professionalism required to be a part of they club they would have been reinforcing the old unprofessional attitudes which the likes of Fev and Houlihan have thrived in at the club during the bad old days ............

Yeah Maybe. Don't be so shocked! Remember these guys were high level draft picks. Who taught Judd to play? Surely these guys can work it out for themselves.

The trouble with this forum is it over worships Judd. I for one remain unconvinced of his value. This year will be the true test for what he brings to the club. As for Fev, if he screws up at Lions then OK I'll accept he is an unmanageable rabble. *But* if he has an incident free career at Brisbane then one really will have to question Carlton's leadership, management and culture. I suspect Fev is the type of fellow you have to properly manage, do it well and he'll be an excellent team player, let's see how the lions go about it.

Time will tell.

But Fev's now been given the arse by us and sent elsewhere permanently. You can't take his behaviour at Brisbane and just say well he would have been like that if we had have kept him - the fact that he was booted out is obviously going to change how he behaves. If he had have survived at Carlton after Brownlow night then he would believe (rightly) that he could get away with anything. Trading him tells him that this is actually not the case and he needs to change.

Another article that includes Notte, but excludes Armfield from the deal.

Amazing that during trade week everyone was queuing up to pot us about how arrogantly we were treating the deal in regards to refusing to offer Pick 1 and including 'crap' like Kennedy in the trade, now everyone is climbing over themselves to remind us about how good JK is going to be, something we could have told them as far back as '06 and '07.

Like MaxyBlue said, it's an article that basically endorses tanking and bottoming out yet it's written in a 'pro-Worsfold' tone

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"They're [REDACTED]'

You're entitled to your opinion, but .

They're really keeping Fevola on his toes by giving him a three year deal.

You'd be the only one. What more could you want from a player?

Would Warnock, Mclean and even Hadley have moved to Carlton if Judd had really become a Tiger?

Or a Bomber?

I'd answer in the negative.

I agree that the forum overworships Judd too. He is a star dont get me wrong but he is certainly not the messiah and for people to dismiss other's thoughts with the ol' "hey it's Chris Judd" just doesn't sit right with me. Also those who claim we didn't just recruit Judd to win a premiership you are wrong and Judd himself said his time here would be seen as a failure if we don't win the big one. That came from the "messiah's" mouth.

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

As a champion player and leading footballer he has to say that.

I think the mere fact this site gets so stroppy when we lose demonstrates the real value - lifting out of the bottom rungs of the latter. Credibility. Challenge. Cockiness. Could the Blues and us have withstood another few years at the bottom? How hard would that have been?

It was the recruitment of a champion player to kickstart out recovery. if we win a premiership out of it then that would be the cherry on the cake.