TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Marketing and Membership

It would be interesting to see what type of memberships arent renewing.

is it your normal silver 11 home game member? or is it your higher social club 17 game membership?

Im once again a social 17 member however, at times i question why i am.

Its not the performance that concerns me, well it does, but aslong as i can afford to get membership i will, but from what happened last year there isnt any real benefit to being a social club member like there was when we where at OO.

Last year i was social 17 and gen blue member - gen blue was a joke, i went to one event and that was the Pre OO Last Game and it was okay and i got a cool stubby holder but far more imo needs to be done regards membership.

IMO - the club has to make massive strides over the next few years to improve the membership becuase at the moment we are miles behind what others are getting.

And it may be selfish or not - but for $460 bucks i expect more than what im currently getting. It gets a little tiring to hear constantly, the club needs you, you should get membership regardless, and to a certain extent i agree, however, there has to be benefit to the members putting up their hard earned.

We had a great social club at OO - can we reproduce that? I dont know, i dont think we need to as no matter what we do it wont be as good as what we had at OO - however, something has to improve greatly IMO - at the moment, they only reason anyone has to be a member of the club is their loyalty to it.

an example - the social club member token - what a F@%&#! embarresment. Change the "06" Its F@%&#! a disgrace. My brother in law has been a Collingwood Social Club for years, and he has each token he has set up in a display case and it looks awesome, he has been a member for 10 or so years and has done the case in such a way that he can continue to add to it with his "yearly" social club member token.

What can i do, get my nose peirced and put it there. Its little thinks like that, that are just a joke. F@%&#!, make some money out of it. I would gladly pay $5 - $10 extra a year if it meant i got a unique social club token every year that i could set up in a similair fashion to what my brother in law has.

quite frankly, what we get as members, just isnt good enough.

Prez, good ideas like many others on this site. But I think you are wasting your time if you think there is any chance of something like this to get anywhere currently.

Firstly - there is not enough staff at the club to develop any new ideas or look at suggestions. Secondly the Board would only look at the cost of any initiative not the potential revenue. So if anything costs money upfront they wont do it. It's all about cost cutting - not investing for growth.

if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they?

mjonc wrote:

if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they?

The kind that will get us to 35k+ members.

I downgraded my membership from a Social 11 to a Silver 11 this year.

I don't make it to as many games as I'd like to each year due to conflicts with my own games, etc. So I know up front I won't be getting full value from my membership, but I felt the social club membership last year offered very little over a normal membership.

Collingwood has a dedicated social club facility in the new stand for home AND away games at the MCG. I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't have much trouble believing it's a fair way ahead of the Sticks room.

At the moment they seem to just offer the very minimum they can get away with. And that's not attractive to me at all.

Maybe I'm a different breed, but if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they?

mjonc wrote:

Maybe I'm a different breed, but if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they?

Correct me if I am wrong here, but anybody with the slightest interest in Carlton and money in their pocket is the kind of member that we need. Dare I suggest that after a couple of wooden spoons, Black Friday and a string of ordinary financial results, that the true blue-bloods are currently the member base.

If the club is going to grow its membership it is the seasonal, swinging or undecided 'supporters' that you need to convince to dip their hand in their pocket. As most of us have already said, we buy memberships out of loyalty, good memories, friendships, obligation whatever. We dont need convincing and although we'll whinge about it, no lanyard, no sticker and some old SOS 300 game hats that they have had out the back of the Carlton Shop, re-badged as member hats would probably get us over the line. Blue Blood die hards are not the marketer's challenge. Every club has these guys. The Kangaroos have these supporters, the Bulldogs have these supporters, Fitzroy had these supporters. Every club can rustle up about 10,000 or so of them. It is not the bottom 10000 that you have to work for it is the top 5000, the last few new members.

If we dont have any new ideas and dont improve, then we might just end up like the Kangaroos etc. Our problem is that we have a huge supporter base, just not many of them pay up as members. Getting them to take the plunge is the problem that we need to solve.

Mordan wrote:

Collo stated last night that the Club has tried continuosly to get a better deal with social club facilities at the MCG, however Carlton has been told that NOCLUB will get a deal like Collingwood at the MCG.

I've been in the Collingwood social club at the MCG during a Melbourne vs St Kilda game last year. The difference is you can watch the game from the bar and it smells of poo. Any social club is what the supporters make it.

Anyone who has ever been camping would understand its not the trees your surrounded by, its the stories around the camp fire that make it memorable. That's what the club needs to focus on again, developing the atmosphere, the stories and I'm sure it will be embraced no matter the facilities.

Author:	CarltonClem [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:46 am ]
Post subject:	Marketing and Membership
As many of you know, I shamefully admit that I'm a Swans member. I just got the second of their 2 packages today and comparing the two memberships, putting loyalties aside, the Sydney Swans package is far more enticing from an objective point of view. They have about 5 bumper stickers or other type of stickers to promote the Swans gospel, they have transport guides (yes, ok, Carlton members know how to get to the G and to the Dome but it would be nice for their interstate members of which I am one), they have parking vouchers for their members, the layout is more professional and better designed. The Carlton package came in a boring brown envelope with nothing stating it was from the CFC whereas the Swans stuff came in a red and white nicely designed envelope with pictures of their premiership winning team and proclaiming what the envelope was about. And why does everything come from Kouta? The Swans stuff is signed for the Marketing Manager. I don't get a rush or thrill just because Kouta sends me membership details. I'd rather the marketing department say "we designed this, ask us" rather than Kouta saying "call the membership department if there are any problems". It's just these little things that make the membership not very appealing. If I wasn't a die-hard Carlton supporter, then I would suggest that on viewing another club's membership package, I wouldn't get the Carlton one based on presentation or professionalism. Fix up the marketing and membership department now Collo!

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:52 am ]
Post subject:
i posted this in the other thread about membership, but thinks its more relevant here after reading this post Quote: It would be interesting to see what type of memberships arent renewing. is it your normal silver 11 home game member? or is it your higher social club 17 game membership? Im once again a social 17 member however, at times i question why i am. Its not the performance that concerns me, well it does, but aslong as i can afford to get membership i will, but from what happened last year there isnt any real benefit to being a social club member like there was when we where at OO. Last year i was social 17 and gen blue member - gen blue was a joke, i went to one event and that was the Pre OO Last Game and it was okay and i got a cool stubby holder but far more imo needs to be done regards membership. IMO - the club has to make massive strides over the next few years to improve the membership becuase at the moment we are miles behind what others are getting. And it may be selfish or not - but for $460 bucks i expect more than what im currently getting. It gets a little tiring to hear constantly, the club needs you, you should get membership regardless, and to a certain extent i agree, however, there has to be benefit to the members putting up their hard earned. We had a great social club at OO - can we reproduce that? I dont know, i dont think we need to as no matter what we do it wont be as good as what we had at OO - however, something has to improve greatly IMO - at the moment, they only reason anyone has to be a member of the club is their loyalty to it. an example - the social club member token - what a F@%&#! embarresment. Change the "06" Its F@%&#! a disgrace. My brother in law has been a Collingwood Social Club for years, and he has each token he has set up in a display case and it looks awesome, he has been a member for 10 or so years and has done the case in such a way that he can continue to add to it with his "yearly" social club member token. What can i do, get my nose peirced and put it there. Its little thinks like that, that are just a joke. F@%&#!, make some money out of it. I would gladly pay $5 - $10 extra a year if it meant i got a unique social club token every year that i could set up in a similair fashion to what my brother in law has. quite frankly, what we get as members, just isnt good enough. IMO - members arent renewing for one simple reason - there is no benefit of renewal. Memberships and Marketing are at the worse they have ever been.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:58 am ]
Post subject:
an initinative if you will Social Club Board of Honour 10 Years Continous Membership 25 Years Continous Membership 50 Years Continous Membership etc.. and have the club put something on for the actual members at no or very little cost to the members. None of the $100+ shit to attend an event the club should be paying for as a gesture to you for your continued and long membership. Give the members the ability to have a social club token for each year they are members and have a unique Social Club Number that is theirs exclusively forever. In a similair fashion to how the Australian Cricket Team has a number on the hat for players as they join the ranks of the Australian Cricket Team. Get it sorted and sort it by when they joined, how long they have been members etc.. e.g. Say i am the 6000th Social Club Member to have join the ranks of the Social Club - Well every year i recieve a new Social CLub Token with my unique number and then on a celebration year i get a special Social Club Token or whatever. Thats just an example of what they could possibly do - becuase at the moment, it feels a little like im just giving my money and being told to piss off. add to that, for normal members, i.e. Silver you could do something similair but maybe not as formal. I dont know something like a jumper signed by their favorite player or something for 10 years, a umper signed by the team for 25 years ro something. 50 years, maybe a dinner with their favorite player or something. i dont know - the ideas are limitless really, but alot more needs to be done. Infact, i really like the jumper idea - even if they charged for it, a jumper signed by your favorite player and framed after being a member for 10 years and you pay for it, something like $250 (none of this $600 business) with a personal message from the player or something. @#$%&!, with all these ideas, i should be in marketting

Author:	CarltonClem [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:18 am ]
Post subject:
Good posts Prez. The Swans Social Club is in Kings Cross - and I assume would get a lot of traffic to make money from. Maybe we use the money that we can gain from the AFL buying out our lease to buy at least a floor or two, or better yet, a building where they can lease out a couple of other floors in the middle of the Melbourne CBD somewhere between the G and the Dome, convenient for matches played at both venues.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:36 am ]
Post subject:
the more i think about it, the better i like my idea but seriously, the possibilites are endless. and would probably entice more interstate supporters to get on-board if they no - after a certain amout of years they would get a signed jumper so something that they can display on their wall at home with pride and i say "ive been a member of the CFC for ten years" and have something to show for it. So say after 10 years they offered this. What cost would it be for the club? Very little i would imagine. A Silver Membership is around the $120 mark? So for a supporter that is going to attend very few games they are paying $120 for next to nothing so after 10 years the supporter has given $1200 to the club basically and it would cost the club, lets say $200 to produce the jumper i was suggesting. So after 10 years - you have $1000 that you would otherwise not have. Combine that by 1000 extra members over that 10 year period and its an extra revenue of $1,000,000 for the club for doing next to nothing other than offering an incentive for members to keep renewing even though they are from interstate. If i was interstate - i would jump at something like that and im sure most would as well. Lets say its 2, 3 or 5k extra members they get, the benefits are massive to the club - and really it would be such a simple thing to introduce as well i would imagine.

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Marketing and Membership http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8996	Page 1 of 5

Author:	mikkey [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:45 am ]
Post subject:
Prez, good ideas like many others on this site. But I think you are wasting your time if you think there is any chance of something like this to get anywhere currently. Firstly - there is not enough staff at the club to develop any new ideas or look at suggestions. Secondly the Board would only look at the cost of any initiative not the potential revenue. So if anything costs money upfront they wont do it. It's all about cost cutting - not investing for growth.

Author:	2ndeffort [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:50 am ]
Post subject:
Good post guys. I scanned through the AFL Membership package a couple of days ago and it looked to be streets ahead of ours too. I am only an 11 game silver member and I am lucky if I get to 1 game every 2 years. I have little kids and play sport myself on weekends so footy is not often an option. Basically I dip into my pocket out of loyalty. This year I got my membership card and lanyard, a book on where I can get discounts and a letter telling me that I can get my hat when I turn up to one of the first 8 games. Given that I'm buying out of loyalty, I've probably already gotten everything that I can get. I am probably like most on here a die hard fan and although I'll whinge, I'll also cop it and front up again next year. But there would be plenty that wont. The tipping in $$ for little return has a limit. I know that the $$$ must be in short supply down at OO, but something to recognise the people that stay 'True Blue' in the darkest hours would be a good idea. I have the feeling that, since my credit card payment already cleared I am already forgotten until next year. Perhaps if I can borrow an idea from The Prez, I know they give members a discount on merchandise from the Carlton Shop. Maybe they could offer members the option to have their guernesy etc autographed for no extra fee by their favourite player. Buy it via the online shop, put in your membership No and a player's name and get it autographed for free as a member. If you go along to the family days/junior members days you can normally get them signed for free anyway, so surely it wouldnt cost the club any extra, but might give a bit of incentive. Also, with those members caps, how about havein a 2,5,7,10,15,20 year emblem on the cap. Maybe a gold bit around the 20, silver around the 15 etc. Sounds a bit silly, but hanging in there for the silver cap might be the lever needed to keep a 13 year member hanging in there through tough times. They could even get some cheap CFC badges made up (like the ones in last year's membership package) and send them out at the end of the season unnanounced as a thank you for sticking with us through the hard times. How about a campaign where members could nominate a player to support. I know there are formal sponsorship programs as per our Bower support, but how about members being able to nominate a player as part of their membership. This nomination might then give them some kind of access to the player, maybe a stock letter/badge etc and a monthly mass mail-out e-mail etc on their progress. Members might be able to send e-mails/SMS to their player via the same kind of thing they do with the hero texts for the athletes. If nothing else it might give players the idea that there are real people out here counting on them and following them. It might give marketing staff an idea on who their most marketable players really are, it might give younger players more exposure to the public and most importantly it might give members a feeling that their membership gives them more access to the club than just the opportunity to tip $$ in. All of this for very little (I'd imagine) money.

Author:	mjonc [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:55 am ]
Post subject:
I have no idea what your guys are on about? Their is plenty of value in a social club membership, for example at the end of last nights AGM the bar was opened with FREE beer On a serious note, I upgraded from silver which is $250 for adults to Social Club so I could associate with people i have met from this site, and also input more money to the club. I'm not about wanting return on investment, I'm about my club being around for my unborn kid to watch Murph run around as Captain in 5 years. Maybe I'm a different breed, but if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they? The members who were at the AGM last night raised the same concerns, but you can basicaly guarantee that those members will always be members even if we received a Carlton membership that looked like the Bullants membership card only.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:04 am ]
Post subject:
mikkey wrote: Prez, good ideas like many others on this site. But I think you are wasting your time if you think there is any chance of something like this to get anywhere currently. Firstly - there is not enough staff at the club to develop any new ideas or look at suggestions. Secondly the Board would only look at the cost of any initiative not the potential revenue. So if anything costs money upfront they wont do it. It's all about cost cutting - not investing for growth. and there in lies the problem doesnt it. whats the phrase, you have to spend money to make money. but alas, i think the members are getting close to having enough of crying poor and what something to happen. mjonc, i agree and disagree, yes there are those of that will always be members (money permitting) however, we get next to nothing from our membership, sure i get along and enjoy going to football and having a beer and a laugh with people i have meet through the site, but that is the point. sites like this probably do more for the club regards membership than the club does itself, and thats flower shit house. i guess, overall, im just feed up with this game, and find it harder and harder ever year to enjoy the game. between what the AFL wants the game to become, and how the club has been run over the last 10 years (Elliot has to answer, but the current board has to answer as well as they have been there for 4 years) i look forward to the start of the A-League, im just about had enough of this game. and the constant reports of the game being as healthy as it has ever been has me stuffed, becuase i dont know anyone, anywhere that enjoys the football as much now as they did, 5 or 10 years ago. I certainly dont and clubs across the board need to be doing more for their members. The plead for us to be members, yet, there has to be a reason, beyond loyality, to be a member, currently, our membership is nothing more than layality i would say for 90% of the supporters.

Author:	marciblue [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:05 am ]
Post subject:
Whether it is futile or not, I think this is the type of constructive criticism and feedback the club would need. You should send an email to the club. I do agree with the sentiments in this thread though. I couldn't believe the club sent a lanyard for 2006 without the 2006 fixture!

Author:	jimmae [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:09 am ]
Post subject:
mjonc wrote: if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they? The kind that will get us to 35k+ members.

Author:	mjonc [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:18 am ]
Post subject:
jimmae wrote: mjonc wrote: if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they? The kind that will get us to 35k+ members. I have spare sticker if anyone knows anyone who wants an extra one when they buy their membership.

Author:	Mordan [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:19 am ]
Post subject:
I downgraded my membership from a Social 11 to a Silver 11 this year. I don't make it to as many games as I'd like to each year due to conflicts with my own games, etc. So I know up front I won't be getting full value from my membership, but I felt the social club membership last year offered very little over a normal membership. Collingwood has a dedicated social club facility in the new stand for home AND away games at the MCG. I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't have much trouble believing it's a fair way ahead of the Sticks room. At the moment they seem to just offer the very minimum they can get away with. And that's not attractive to me at all.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:22 am ]
Post subject:
Mordan wrote: I downgraded my membership from a Social 11 to a Silver 11 this year. I don't make it to as many games as I'd like to each year due to conflicts with my own games, etc. So I know up front I won't be getting full value from my membership, but I felt the social club membership last year offered very little over a normal membership. Collingwood has a dedicated social club facility in the new stand for home AND away games at the MCG. I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't have much trouble believing it's a fair way ahead of the Sticks room. At the moment they seem to just offer the very minimum they can get away with. And that's not attractive to me at all. exactly mate, and there in lies the problem IMO

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Author:	2ndeffort [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:26 am ]
Post subject:
mjonc wrote: Maybe I'm a different breed, but if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they? Correct me if I am wrong here, but anybody with the slightest interest in Carlton and money in their pocket is the kind of member that we need. Dare I suggest that after a couple of wooden spoons, Black Friday and a string of ordinary financial results, that the true blue-bloods are currently the member base. If the club is going to grow its membership it is the seasonal, swinging or undecided 'supporters' that you need to convince to dip their hand in their pocket. As most of us have already said, we buy memberships out of loyalty, good memories, friendships, obligation whatever. We dont need convincing and although we'll whinge about it, no lanyard, no sticker and some old SOS 300 game hats that they have had out the back of the Carlton Shop, re-badged as member hats would probably get us over the line. Blue Blood die hards are not the marketer's challenge. Every club has these guys. The Kangaroos have these supporters, the Bulldogs have these supporters, Fitzroy had these supporters. Every club can rustle up about 10,000 or so of them. It is not the bottom 10000 that you have to work for it is the top 5000, the last few new members. If we dont have any new ideas and dont improve, then we might just end up like the Kangaroos etc. Our problem is that we have a huge supporter base, just not many of them pay up as members. Getting them to take the plunge is the problem that we need to solve.

Author:	mjonc [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:02 am ]
Post subject:
2ndeffort wrote: mjonc wrote: Maybe I'm a different breed, but if people don't buy a membership due to a lack of stickers or function rooms, then you would have to ask what type of supporters are they? Correct me if I am wrong here, but anybody with the slightest interest in Carlton and money in their pocket is the kind of member that we need. Dare I suggest that after a couple of wooden spoons, Black Friday and a string of ordinary financial results, that the true blue-bloods are currently the member base. If the club is going to grow its membership it is the seasonal, swinging or undecided 'supporters' that you need to convince to dip their hand in their pocket. As most of us have already said, we buy memberships out of loyalty, good memories, friendships, obligation whatever. We dont need convincing and although we'll whinge about it, no lanyard, no sticker and some old SOS 300 game hats that they have had out the back of the Carlton Shop, re-badged as member hats would probably get us over the line. Blue Blood die hards are not the marketer's challenge. Every club has these guys. The Kangaroos have these supporters, the Bulldogs have these supporters, Fitzroy had these supporters. Every club can rustle up about 10,000 or so of them. It is not the bottom 10000 that you have to work for it is the top 5000, the last few new members. If we dont have any new ideas and dont improve, then we might just end up like the Kangaroos etc. Our problem is that we have a huge supporter base, just not many of them pay up as members. Getting them to take the plunge is the problem that we need to solve. I disagree, the marketers challenge is the Social Club members. Swinging supporters will come with results on the field. Its the social club members that impact hard on the financial reward of members, not so much the swinging supporters. A few figures for you: Social Club - 1000 members lost equates to around $500k Silver Members - 1000 members - $260k Blue Members - 1000 members - $60k IMO focusing our marketing budget on swinging supporters who will sign up with better results on the field is a 50/50 proposition, focusing money towards promoting the social club so we re-sign the 1000 members we have lost makes more sense to me.

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:07 am ]
Post subject:
Great initiative starting this thread CC. Thanks for highlighting our current plight and for the good ideas Prez. 2nd effort and Mordan thanks for bringing our reality home for others to understand and empathise with. Perhaps the marketing people believe that they are getting away with the current minimal offers, and it's commentary such as this that should not EVER be ignored by any marketer worth a grain.... This is free Market Research. If the Marketing Dept had collated competitor offerings for the purpose of a SWOT analysis, they would have a more accurate picture of their positioning in the value stakes. I'm an interstater, and my family in Sydney and Melbourne collectively pay for 12 memeberships. I have a kid named Carlton who is a baby blue, and is also a memeber of the Demons and Saints (courtesy of some brainwashing mates hoping it creates a connection for him, and maybe one day he crosses the floor....no hope), and when I do I receive their packages on behalf of young Carlton it astounds me to see such great value they offer for him, above and beyond the Carlton offer. I can only conclude that this is the value Carlton places on its supporters; and it's embarrassing, as I don't like being taken for granted. At present, buying merchandise from the shop makes more sense to me than memberships, in terms of feeling and looking like a Navy Blue. What I'm suggesting to marketing is to listen to their fans, and conduct some subtle research on it's compeitors offerings to members. Then ask themselves if they are the benchmark of value, or if there are some big gaps that need serious attention and improvement. It is time Marketing did some smart campaigning that extends more as an offer of gratitude to supporters, as suggested above, rather than their current offerings, that seem impersanal. Loyalty is a passionate response, but taking things for granted my wear thin to the point that it may jeopardise their level of passion. mjonc, we are highlighting existing value gaps as members, so there's no questioning our loyalty and committment; or the type of supporter we are. But the club needs to attract another 20,000, and the club is finding it difficult to bridge the gap. We want to attract any members, and if the way to do that is to improve our offers' value, then that is what has to be done, as we don't have the luxury to ignore them. They barrack for Carlton, and that's a good start in my books, but we want them to cross the line and buy a membership.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:09 am ]
Post subject:
i think we need to do both. we need something for the social club members beyond what they are currently offered. we are constantly told we have the biggest supporter base Australia wide yet we doing nothing to entice them to join up other than "be loyal" to the club. same goes for existing members, especially SC who IMO where impacted on upon the most from the move to OO. We had a very very good set up at OO, while it was run down, there was history, their was pride, their was the "Avenue of Stars" as i liked to call it. Since the move, i personally see no need what so ever to continue being a SC member, with the exception of those ive meet through this site. Our SC is next to non existent at the moment, and like i said, with the exclusion of those i go to the football with know, there is just no reason for me to pay 300% more than what i would for a Silver Membership and that is poor marketing by the club. Im actually right into this at the moment, however im a littel busy at work, look out for "my proposal" regards membership tonight and things that the club should/could do and add to membership to entice those that arent and those that are to retain their membership.

Author:	mjonc [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:12 am ]
Post subject:
Mordan wrote: I downgraded my membership from a Social 11 to a Silver 11 this year. I don't make it to as many games as I'd like to each year due to conflicts with my own games, etc. So I know up front I won't be getting full value from my membership, but I felt the social club membership last year offered very little over a normal membership. Collingwood has a dedicated social club facility in the new stand for home AND away games at the MCG. I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't have much trouble believing it's a fair way ahead of the Sticks room. At the moment they seem to just offer the very minimum they can get away with. And that's not attractive to me at all. Collo stated last night that the Club has tried continuosly to get a better deal with social club facilities at the MCG, however Carlton has been told that NOCLUB will get a deal like Collingwood at the MCG. I've been in the Collingwood social club at the MCG during a Melbourne vs St Kilda game last year. The difference is you can watch the game from the bar and it smells of poo. Any social club is what the supporters make it. Anyone who has ever been camping would understand its not the trees your surrounded by, its the stories around the camp fire that make it memorable. That's what the club needs to focus on again, developing the atmosphere, the stories and I'm sure it will be embraced no matter the facilities.