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The emperor has no clothes ($18m worth of no clothes)
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Author:  simonverbeek [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  The emperor has no clothes ($18m worth of no clothes)
Just watched the first On the Couch episode of the season, and the guest was that pr1ck Demetriou.

When Wallsy asked what the league can do to help Carlton, Demetriou explained that we're in such a difficult situation because we are the only club in the league that pays for ground upkeep and makes no revenue on the ground.

He said we pay 1.8 million a year on PP with no return. In his words - "Carlton start $1.8m a year behind every other club". 10 year deal - that's 18 million dollars lost.

To the board of the Carlton Football Club -

DID YOU NOT @#$%&! THINK OF THIS BEFORE YOU SIGNED AWAY 18 MIL?????????

Our ground switch deal which was touted as the deal to save the CFC, has been shown to have no clothes.

Personally, I was not against the move because I begrudgingly accepted it was inevitable (Carlton was my favourite place to watch footy, but I knew we had to move on and head must rule over heart).

MAybe the board calculated that the gains over 10 years would outweight this 18 mil loss, but it seems like A BIG @#$%&! HOLE, COLLO!

I am losing faith... someone tell me they didn't overlook this.
Author:  AGRO [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The emperor has no clothes ($18m worth of no clothes)
simonverbeek wrote:
Just watched the first On the Couch episode of the season, and the guest was that pr1ck Demetriou.

When Wallsy asked what the league can do to help Carlton, Demetriou explained that we're in such a difficult situation because we are the only club in the league that pays for ground upkeep and makes no revenue on the ground.

He said we pay 1.8 million a year on PP with no return. In his words - "Carlton start $1.8m a year behind every other club". 10 year deal - that's 18 million dollars lost.

To the board of the Carlton Football Club -

DID YOU NOT @#$%&! THINK OF THIS BEFORE YOU SIGNED AWAY 18 MIL?????????

Our ground switch deal which was touted as the deal to save the CFC, has been shown to have no clothes.

Personally, I was not against the move because I begrudgingly accepted it was inevitable (Carlton was my favourite place to watch footy, but I knew we had to move on and head must rule over heart).

MAybe the board calculated that the gains over 10 years would outweight this 18 mil loss, but it seems like A BIG @#$%&! HOLE, COLLO!

I am losing faith... someone tell me they didn't overlook this.



That C&#T Demetrispew - doesn't tell the whole truth (as per usual).

The AFL were never going to fixture any more AFL games at Princes Park post 2005 and they new the situation - Demetrispew was the one holding a gun to Carlton's head, we had to try and make the best available option whether it was at MCG, The Dome or a mix of both.

The Spew is a lying sack of miserable dog turds. :evil:
Author:  jimmae [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
The local council (City of Melbourne) forced Carlton's hand too, don't forget.

It wasn't a case of OO not being viable as a venue, moreso these two parties denying them the opportunity to let it continue being an up to date venue. The only thing the council would let pass was to redevelop it into a training facility that also serviced low-key matches (TAC, Resevers GF, etc).

The lease runs until 2035 so it's actually $52.2 mill over 29 years by those figures. We may still hang on to PP (as it is now known again) yet, let's wait and see what the package is for the Blues. Originally it was going to be financial assistance from the council and the AFL, I believe.
Author:  camel [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
So how does Essendon* get revenue from Windy Hill? Hawthorn at Glenferrie? Kangaroos at Arden Street? Richmond at Punt Road? St Kilda at Moorabbin? Bulldogs at Western Oval? And who pays their upkeep?

Moreover, why does CFC not get any revenue for any TAC/NAB/VFL games played at Princes Park?
Author:  jimmae [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
So how does Essendon* get revenue from Windy Hill? Hawthorn at Glenferrie? Kangaroos at Arden Street? Richmond at Punt Road? St Kilda at Moorabbin? Bulldogs at Western Oval? And who pays their upkeep?

Dons - Fitness centre and memberships

Hawks - Have you see the surface at Glenners? Especially lately. They're shifting to Waverley and they're being bank-rolled by Jeff Kennett's charisma.

Richmond - would get some money for the cricket and VFL matches played on there I'd say.

Saints - don't they share it with the Dees? It's Junction Oval yeah? Cricket's played there too.

Bulldogs - Federal Government recently but the place is in worse condition than PP.

Bulldogs also extend their hand for handouts.

The question is, now that PP is no longer a match day venue - are we doing our best to minimise upkeep costs? Save for the goal squares, the surface is comparable to the MCG still.

We should be holding the AFL to ransom if they want to keep the ground as a match venue, not the other way round. Surely the Club isn't burning cash trying to keep the surface in AFL nick.

camelboy wrote:
Moreover, why does CFC not get any revenue for any TAC/NAB/VFL games played at Princes Park?

That's pretty poor by Football Vic and the AFL if that's the case. Doubt it though.
Author:  1AW_rules [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
jimmae wrote:
Saints - don't they share it with the Dees? It's Junction Oval yeah? Cricket's played there too.

St Kilda is based at Linton St, Moorabbin.
Author:  jimmae [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
1AW_rules wrote:
jimmae wrote:
Saints - don't they share it with the Dees? It's Junction Oval yeah? Cricket's played there too.

St Kilda is based at Linton St, Moorabbin.

Where do they train though?
Author:  Synbad [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
The question was asked about how much maintenace of the ground cost... after throwing a few figures in the air and arghhhhing and errrrrring they said $800k but if we had more things we would have to pay 1.8 mill..... :lol:
Author:  1AW_rules [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
jimmae wrote:
1AW_rules wrote:
jimmae wrote:
Saints - don't they share it with the Dees? It's Junction Oval yeah? Cricket's played there too.

St Kilda is based at Linton St, Moorabbin.

Where do they train though?

They train at Linton St.
Author:  ballistic blues [ Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
they will have to tear down most of the surrounding stands and utilise whats left.


Like at windy hill, half the stands have been demolished the rest have be used as offices, the football department, a function center, pokies, restaurant, hall of fame, merchandise shop/membership. Then theres the indoor pool and gym thats open to public and has a pricey membership fee. They also host EDFL finals and grandfinals, they have a 20/20 cricket game there

a good set up they got down at windy hill.
Author:  strangeblue [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:55 am ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
Moreover, why does CFC not get any revenue for any TAC/NAB/VFL games played at Princes Park?


What revenue? If the break even figure is so high - how the hell are we gonna make any money on 2000 people...?
Author:  woof [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:30 am ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
So how does Essendon* get revenue from Windy Hill? Hawthorn at Glenferrie? Kangaroos at Arden Street? Richmond at Punt Road? St Kilda at Moorabbin? Bulldogs at Western Oval? And who pays their upkeep?


Which one of those clubs has a 12 million dollar grandstand at their ground with 7 million dollars debt attached to it?
Author:  jimmae [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:12 am ]
Post subject: 
The debt is 3 million plus interest off the other 4 million... we got an advance.

Or was it the other way around?
Author:  ballistic blues [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Essendon* have a good thing going at windy hill, the function center booked out most weeks, the pokies are busy, they have good faciltiies in the gym and pool
Author:  bluegirldanielle [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:37 am ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
Moreover, why does CFC not get any revenue for any TAC/NAB/VFL games played at Princes Park?


Similar thing was mentioned last night & I may not have this totally right so hopefully someone will correct me :wink:

Apparently those who use the ground for training, playing etc pay what's called a volutary tenancy fee or something like that. They didn't elaborate on what that means but I took it as those who use the ground pay what they want. Collo said this was not ideal as they are paid much much less than what they want to charge however this is something they want to negotiate with the AFL as well.

I'm not really sure why this negotiation wasn't done with the AFL 5 or 6 years ago - we could have made a killing!!
Author:  jimmae [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
ballistic blues wrote:
Essendon* have a good thing going at windy hill, the function center booked out most weeks, the pokies are busy, they have good faciltiies in the gym and pool

That's because the EFC* is perfectly nestled in an area packed with nursing homes. The gym is one of the better large scale ones in the area. Fitafex is just down the road though (shameless plug for a family friend). Better classes there.

<--- Ascot Vale boy.
Author:  Rod Waddell [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:14 am ]
Post subject: 
While we were developing our neat little legends stand, Essendon* were developing their neat little entertainment complex. At this stage you'd have to say they spent their $$$ more wisely.

In any case the Pies were in a precarious position when Eddie got in. He managed to turn it around with his vision, energy, contacts, etc. Our board has been unable to do so.
Author:  bluegirldanielle [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Rod Waddell wrote:
While we were developing our neat little legends stand, Essendon* were developing their neat little entertainment complex. At this stage you'd have to say they spent their $$$ more wisely.

In any case the Pies were in a precarious position when Eddie got in. He managed to turn it around with his vision, energy, contacts, etc. Our board has been unable to do so.


Yes & the reason given was because Eddie was able to use the TV to generate the change. While that is true to some extent, there is a massive gap between our board & theirs.
Author:  billc3 [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Simple answer

Bulldoze a few stands and allow the homeless and druggies to come and live under what's left....
Author:  jimmae [ Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:32 am ]
Post subject: 
bluegirldanielle wrote:
Rod Waddell wrote:
While we were developing our neat little legends stand, Essendon* were developing their neat little entertainment complex. At this stage you'd have to say they spent their $$$ more wisely.

In any case the Pies were in a precarious position when Eddie got in. He managed to turn it around with his vision, energy, contacts, etc. Our board has been unable to do so.


Yes & the reason given was because Eddie was able to use the TV to generate the change. While that is true to some extent, there is a massive gap between our board & theirs.

Touche Danielle but on Rod's point at the time construction was underway for the stand Docklands was but a twinkle in the eye. The AFL are but a fickle beast and backflips have been the order of the day for a long time.

I mean look at the new scholarship initative in Sydney. Might be highly regulated but it's still giving clubs some cheque book powers and the ability to play ducks and drakes with the draft.

The AFL used the excuse that it "gives the recruitment teams a chance to compete more aggressively than currently possible in the draft." While true that turns us away from how imbalanced the Sydney area could become.

If it goes out of control, Sydney will cry and then the AFL will backflip because they want to grow the Sydney market and they have already said the best way is the Sydney brand. Then to compensate they might offer Sydney some zoning rights again.

Then the other 15 clubs cry and zoning is implemented across the board again, resulting in the draft being made into a joke again. Poorer clubs get smashed by the tactics the powerhouses implement.

It's almost like the fashion industry, trend comes in, trend falls out in what seems like anywhere from a 10 to 30 year cycle.

Anyway, our time to cry has come again and if we cry enough the AFL might pay us to maintain PP as a reserve and help us develop it into a training facility AND leave us with control of the lease.
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