Weighty matters as cautious Pagan eyes new year

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Beat me to it Effes!

I would have guessed that was a Pagan quote without his name attached but this is an interesting quote from the article.

Does Denis even know what he's doing?

Effes,

That's life.

"Im not going to be the man who is remembered for killing Bambi"

Sounds like a job for Sticks....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

He should have an idea about why 2004/2005 ended the way they did... he was the cause of a lot of the pattern of those seasons.

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

Apparently I confused him with this article published the other week. He thought we were successful in 2004, can you believe it?

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg= ... eid=241772

ThaT 'succesful season' cost us 2 gun players...and an opportunity to be closer to the pack.. i for one am very grateful we didnt have another opf those succesful seasons last year....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

REALLY??? Noo!! Surely not!!! You're not suggesting that you WANTED Carlton to finish lowly and recieve a Priority Pick are you Synbad?

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

Well.. we could have been talking about Franklin and Deledio as well as Murphy and Kennedy.......

Cant see how that wouldnt go well for the future...

I mean who is really proud about 2004 today anyway???

Will anyone ever say..."How about that 2004!!! flower fantastic season we had.. gone are the times..."

or

"I remember 2004 ,... ace year!!! 10 wins and a percentage of around 60%...guns all over the park!!!.. what happened???"

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

you know I agree

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me

i do know....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

2004 Wins:

Geelong (4th), Melbourne (5th), West Coast (7th), Essendon* (8th), Roos (10th), Adelaide (12th), Collingwood (13th, twice), Hawthorn (15th), Richmond (16th)

Even if we hadn't have stolen some of those wins at the end of the season, we still would have missed the priority pick by a long way.

Synbad, I know how you feel on this one, but do you give any value to the Club from having a positive end to 2004, given 2002, 2003 and our financial problems at the time? I take your point about whether anyone sees 2004 as positive anymore, but at the time just to win a few games felt good.

Short sighted I know, but I wonder if 2004 helped us in non-draft picks terms?

I just want to apologise now for watching FOX Footy and enjoying our wins in every season except those where we didn't win the premiership.

Gee, that 1999 season cost us so many good players who knows where we might be right now.

_________________
In WADA we trust

molesy does a businessman start up a business in an elite end of town.. say the Paris end of Collins street by opening up a 2 dollar shop?
Were in the most elite sporting competition in Australia.. and we were trying to turn the ship around while having a bare cupboard!!!
Noone cares about 10 wins.

I can guarantee you.. the impetus the club would have had by coming last and picking up Franklin and Deledio compared to what we did is chalk and cheese...

The club must realise that if it ever wants to be elite again.. and get financial it must go out and stock up with the product people pay money for....


Its no good going to each AGM and having the club announce how we just wiped off another 500k from the debt each year... (but we have a side going nowhere)....because when the day comes that we announce were debt free.. we will be a nothing club and yesterdays fish n chips wrap up paper....


If we had a plan of youth and just kept plugging away at bringing gun kids in to go with the Walkers Murphys Waites etc.. and people can see were finding tomorrows stars they are patient.

The problem is the club has no faith in us.. so is just wallpapering the cracks .. sooner or later theres nothing left to wallpaper... and it all falls over!!!.. all ebcause they dont want to be seen as a failure!!!

Well so far theyre all failures!!!.. and that tenth makes no difference.

they should look long term and understand their job is to suffer for a few years so the next lot that come in can have an easier job.

They will be remembered for the platform... instead they want to be remembered for mediocrity!!!

they should just face it.. there is only pain for a bit.. but while there is going to be pain ANYWAY.. do it properly!!!

The rest is shortsightedness and it shits me!!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Wake up!!! ..............were last!!!!

Just another example of low standards.... and how far wer have fallen.. when we will take any win... no matter how we win.. the other club is injured.. or luck.. or theyre just plain shit!!!./.. over greatness!!

Sad...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Who knows where we would be now if we had only won 5 games in 2004? With the injection of talent, we may have finished 13th in 2005, or 14th. We may have won one or two more games. Maybe not. It's impossible to tell. All there is is what was what back when.

Id love to know.....

Would people swap Lance and Kouta (to some our best 2 players).. for Deledio and Franklin????

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Would you swap Voss for Deledio? Buckley, Harvey?

By the way I think Tambling will be better than those 2.

Yes i would... but i dont barrack for Collingwood or Brisbane i barrack for Carlton...

And our short sightedness is killing us.. i dont care what other clubs do...

One thing is for sure wed have a tighter ship with Buckley and Voss running the show than Kouta and Lance..

Some people can do it just because of what thyre like...

Theyre both competitors..

We lack competitors..

Thats why we get thrashed alot!!!.. and they dont get thrashed as often...

I think our percentage over 4 years makes us the most thrashable team for a long long time....

I put that down not to having a shit list.. which we clearly have.. but due to the lack of competitiveness and drive the team has.. and that comes from the main men....

Carlton is right down there with Fitzroy and Freos least competitive sides...

Fitzroy because it was dying... and Freo because it has no culture..


Whats our excse??

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

How does winning games in 2004 correspond to a Lance and Kouta versus Deledio and Franklin argument. If these two players turn out to be as good as Lance and Kouta the Hawks and Tigers will be smiling.

To get Deledio we would have had to win 7 less games. There were 3 teams with PPs in that year so we might have had picks 4 and 8, not just 1 and 4.

Keep talking in hypotheticals, you're sounding more like a Saints or Cats fan every day. If only we hadn't won this game, or if only we' hadn't kicked that goal ... FFS just support the team and relaise we're now heading in the right direction after years of mismangement and suffering.

West Coast didn't need the handout mentality ... they bottomed out, drafted Judd and Sampi and used their facilities, smart trading, rookies and other draft picks (Cousins, Kerr, Fletcher, etc weren't priority picks) to improve the rest of their list.

PS I'll never apologise for wanting Carlton to win any game ... the sad ones are the ones fervently hoping we'll lose after round 12 every year.

_________________
In WADA we trust