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I'm worried about Karl
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=687		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  budzy [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  I'm worried about Karl
At the end of last season I thought we had gun player ready to explode in 2005 by the name of Karl Norman.
Considering that he hadn't played competitive footy prior to the Wizzer cup since rnd 16 last year because of a broken hand, I thought Karl would be jumping out of his skin waiting to get back to playing what he's naturally good at...footy.
It seemed to a few observers that Karl was a bit down during the wizzer and that worries me. Is he injured? We need Karls height and mobility now that Tbirds out. Can anyone shed any light on what the problem is if there is a problem? Karl should be flying at the moment imo.
Author:  Elroy [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Karls first 2 games of 2004 were his best for Carlton.

From what I hear, he is a bit of a wild child, loves hitting the piss, partying etc. I am Karl's age and it's just what guys are like at 22 (aren't we, boys?) You can take the boy out of Wangaratta but you can't take the Wangaratta out of the boy.

He needs to focus all his energies on footy, and whilst he has ability, he likely lacks thorough preparation e.g pushing himself hard on skills, fitness etc.

He will be a suitable replacement for Thornton, if he really wants to be.
Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:59 am ]
Post subject: 
No maturity and probably got carried away with the fact he is an AFL player and making the list is good enough...you have to ask the question does Karl really understand the opportunities he has in front of him.
His off field behaviour has been ordinary and he would be on his last chance..
Doesnt seem to play like a CHB either ..more like a HBF who likes to run and not get involved in contested marking situations with bigger players..
I hope he gets in the team to replace Bret Thornton so we can get a handle on where he is at...could be anything or could end up back in Wang playing for the rovers and looking back on what might have been when he finally matures...at 194/5 cm and 95kg+ though I'm prepared to cut him some slack and cheer him on for 2005..
Author:  marciblue [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:02 am ]
Post subject: 
That's it Elroy, he just likes to have a good time and at his age I don't think that's a problem. At his age, I was doing exactly the same.
Unfortunately, it looks like it is taking a toll on his motivation and commitment to prepare and perform at AFL level. He clearly looks disinterested and out of form. His VFL form is indifferent also. Bit of a cross-roads situation.

The club knows the type of person Karl is and this situation will be very delicate to manage. Stimulating him again to put in and prepare properly and to generate enthusiasm for the game is not going to be an easy task. I have posted elsewhere that I think that from a skill and talent viewpoint, he is on par with T-bird and if he put in 100% he could be a top-line player. No doubt. Obviously doesn't have the thirst for hard work like Bret does.

He will get a run this week for the Ants and it will be interesting to see how he performs and how his attitude is. We need him in the seniors and I believe he is in our best 22 if he plays at his best. Having said that, the club isn't desperate to do him any favours and can push a harder line on him. He wont get away with it as much as he would've a year or two ago.
Author:  Pickle [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
This is a good thread.

Karl will not be given any favours....nor he should! Now that the club has some much depth he is really going to have to earn it. I'm a big fan of him when his mind is on the job. His first few games last year were quite impressive to say the least. The game against Geelong and then his return game against Essendon* were very good.

He has height, speed, agility and generally he is composed under pressure. I hope he can prove himself to DP and be in the starting line up agains the Roos.

Go Karl!!
Author:  spf [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
No maturity and probably got carried away with the fact he is an AFL player and making the list is good enough...you have to ask the question does Karl really understand the opportunities he has in front of him.
His off field behaviour has been ordinary and he would be on his last chance..
Doesnt seem to play like a CHB either ..more like a HBF who likes to run and not get involved in contested marking situations with bigger players..
I hope he gets in the team to replace Bret Thornton so we can get a handle on where he is at...could be anything or could end up back in Wang playing for the rovers and looking back on what might have been when he finally matures...at 194/5 cm and 95kg+ though I'm prepared to cut him some slack and cheer him on for 2005..


Where are people getting their size stats from? I'm seen this figure "194/195cm" bandied around this site now several times but the listing the AFL and the club have list him as being 190cm. Where did the 4-5 or so centimetres come from? Has Karl had some amazing growth spurt during the off season?

According to the AFL record for 2005 Thornton, Livingston, Waite and Prendergast are all taller than Norman by several centimetres.
Author:  Keith Urban [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Remember too that Karl didn't play footy until he was fourteen. His background is a little different when you must also consider that having not come through the under-age comp. he must sometimes wonder if he really belongs. I think it's too early to judge. I think he's lazy on the track, but so was Fev and perhaps this will change with age. Hope he has some good mentors down at Optus.
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
spf wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
No maturity and probably got carried away with the fact he is an AFL player and making the list is good enough...you have to ask the question does Karl really understand the opportunities he has in front of him.
His off field behaviour has been ordinary and he would be on his last chance..
Doesnt seem to play like a CHB either ..more like a HBF who likes to run and not get involved in contested marking situations with bigger players..
I hope he gets in the team to replace Bret Thornton so we can get a handle on where he is at...could be anything or could end up back in Wang playing for the rovers and looking back on what might have been when he finally matures...at 194/5 cm and 95kg+ though I'm prepared to cut him some slack and cheer him on for 2005..


Where are people getting their size stats from? I'm seen this figure "194/195cm" bandied around this site now several times but the listing the AFL and the club have list him as being 190cm. Where did the 4-5 or so centimetres come from? Has Karl had some amazing growth spurt during the off season?

According to the AFL record for 2005 Thornton, Livingston, Waite and Prendergast are all taller than Norman by several centimetres.


Don't pay attention to the AFL record or the height listed on the club site.
Karl is exactly 194.7cm as posted by Cazzesman who asked Karl at a club function last year.
Author:  spf [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
phoenix johnson wrote:
spf wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
No maturity and probably got carried away with the fact he is an AFL player and making the list is good enough...you have to ask the question does Karl really understand the opportunities he has in front of him.
His off field behaviour has been ordinary and he would be on his last chance..
Doesnt seem to play like a CHB either ..more like a HBF who likes to run and not get involved in contested marking situations with bigger players..
I hope he gets in the team to replace Bret Thornton so we can get a handle on where he is at...could be anything or could end up back in Wang playing for the rovers and looking back on what might have been when he finally matures...at 194/5 cm and 95kg+ though I'm prepared to cut him some slack and cheer him on for 2005..


Where are people getting their size stats from? I'm seen this figure "194/195cm" bandied around this site now several times but the listing the AFL and the club have list him as being 190cm. Where did the 4-5 or so centimetres come from? Has Karl had some amazing growth spurt during the off season?

According to the AFL record for 2005 Thornton, Livingston, Waite and Prendergast are all taller than Norman by several centimetres.


Don't pay attention to the AFL record or the height listed on the club site.
Karl is exactly 194.7cm as posted by Cazzesman who asked Karl at a club function last year.


Fair enough Phoenix but I'm wondering how the stats can be so wrong? If Karl is the size you say and he's now listed as 95Kg he would be a far more effective match up down back on say a Barry Hall than Brett Thornton.

Don't get me wrong I'm not doubting the beliefs of people who post here but I must admit I'm slightly dubious when it comes to Karl Norman. I'd be asking the club in fact I think I will because this has got me curious now.

How can the stats for the AFL (bearing in mind the media use these as well) be so wrong? A 4-5 cm discrepency is quite a bit and if they are wrong to that extent then the entire lists they have are nothing more than a vague guide at best. Surely the clubs must have to measure and weigh their lists and submit this to the AFL?

When Karl Norman came to the club he was listed as 190cm and 87Kg then last year he was 190cm and 91kg as listed in the 2004 AFL record. This year he's listed 190cm and 96kg in the 2005 AFL record, so ok he's putting on weight as you'd expect with the increased training etc. But at 22 years of age is it normal for that kind of growth spurt?

A nearly 5cm increase is a fair bit I'd have thought.

Still if this is accurate 9kg and 4.7cm in his time at the club is quite impressive really. This guy is nearly the size of Barry Hall.

I'll post back to the board with what I find out with regard to the lists submission etc.
Author:  molsey [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Its a common question spf and a source of much hope in players of all sides. Whilst Cazzesman and PJ are surely right - Livo, Thorny, Norman etc are far taller than I and I am 185cm (proven when standing next to them), there is a feeling that the club (singular) downplays height for some unknown reason. I think its more likely that they just down update the records for growth when we recruit them at age 18 say. Livo is a good 2 inches taller than me and Norman is taller than him, so I'd say 194 is bang on right.

However, what we often forget is that surely other clubs would be in the same boat. Their heights are likely to be as historic as ours.

And as for playing Norman on Hall... well, its not height that would stop you doing that, its surely size??
Author:  maxyblue [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
spf,

according to the official listing, quentin lynch is only 2cm taller than livo :shock: :lol:
Author:  spf [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
maxyblue wrote:
spf,

according to the official listing, quentin lynch is only 2cm taller than livo :shock: :lol:


Yeah I think that says it all really doesn't it! There's no way Livingston is 2cm less than Lynch. The game on Saturday clearly showed at least 4-5cm difference (possibly more). With both their arms up Livingston was never going to outreach Lynch.

I think this must be league wide but still I am curious, is this something the clubs have instigated (ie: false information to the opposition) or the AFL just haven't bothered - or probably a bit of both.
Author:  dannyboy [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think its the fisherman's rule applied in reverse.
Author:  spf [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
dannyboy wrote:
I think its the fisherman's rule applied in reverse.


LOL :D Well said Dannyboy.
Author:  Laserkid [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
My take on things for what it's worth.
The only reason why we are concerned about Karl is that there has been a massive surge of energy, training and endeviour by many at Carlton. Lance, Waite, Chambers. Walker, Sporny, Livo, Carlos, Wiggo have all added muscle or trained the house down over summer. In actual terms Karl might be standing still, he might even be moving forward, but in contrast to the effoorts to the other guys, he seems to be moving backwards. It may just be be relative and it may just be his immaturity that he does not realise that to stay still, you still gotta move forward. I hope that someone knocks this message into him soon, because he could be a fantastic footballer.
Author:  molsey [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
We gave Livo, Sporn and Wiggler 5 years; Norman in his third can have a couple more!
Author:  spf [ Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Laserkid wrote:
My take on things for what it's worth.
The only reason why we are concerned about Karl is that there has been a massive surge of energy, training and endeviour by many at Carlton. Lance, Waite, Chambers. Walker, Sporny, Livo, Carlos, Wiggo have all added muscle or trained the house down over summer. In actual terms Karl might be standing still, he might even be moving forward, but in contrast to the effoorts to the other guys, he seems to be moving backwards. It may just be be relative and it may just be his immaturity that he does not realise that to stay still, you still gotta move forward. I hope that someone knocks this message into him soon, because he could be a fantastic footballer.


That's a good point laserkid. Karl certainly has the talent to be not just a good footballer (trier/toiler) but a great one (game breaker/influencer). I want to believe in Karl I really do but I just can't right now.

Make me believe Karl....please.
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