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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:44 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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sigmac wrote:
Weiters back at the expense of Young and also Marchbank is ready to make an apperance .North gave Freo a scare with a 5 goal lead and unless we get on top early ,it might be a grind . I dont mind Fantasia at all,he is finding his feet ,and he did give Harry an accurate kick on the lead ...Im not sure about Williams ,maybe a fit Callum would be a better choice ,with the extra height



I dont think Williams selection has much to do with Marchbank. If Marchbank comes in it is most likely for Kemp's spot. Form and fitness will determine that in the short term.

You haven't been impressed with Zac Williams addition to the team? I'm curious in what you are seeing.

I think Zac and Saad are keepers and if a small was to be dropped from backline it would likely be Boyd, who most fans have in their best 22. In fact, like me, they have both Boyd and Williams in their best 22.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:53 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Braithy wrote:
Rocky Henderson wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Anyone thinking we're going well enough to leave out best 22 players is kidding themselves. It's nice to be 2-0 and have set our season up nicely, but let's be honest, we could very easily be 0-2.

Play your best team. Even if it means someone is unlucky to be dropped. Motlop and Martin are our most dangerous small/med forwards by a distance. They are both automatic selections when fit. I think E Hollands will be the same but I haven't really seen him play so I'll leave that to the side for now


This,
Owies and Durdin just aren't dangerous enough.

Hollands to be the high half forward and Cottrel the defensive forward..



agree owies and durdin aren't anything special as crumbing forwards or defensive pressure forwards. motlop offers more - and hopefully Moir is the small forward we've been craving since garlett and betts left.

fantasia will come out of the team only when martin is fit. the hope is that between fantasia and martin, one is at least fit.


not sure marchbank comes straight in ... knowing voss & how popular marchbank is with the playing group, he probably comes in at kemp's expense. hopefully not tho.

either way this friday we need to make a statement. much has been made that the coaching staff viewed this game as our opening round and trained for it with all that loading in the final weeks of preseason.

sydney, gws and port all look good. be great if we came out and dulled a bit of this all sydney/ interstate gf talk.


Motlop and Martin have x factor. Durdin, Fogarty and Owies are pressure small forwards. Agree we need more goals from our smalls.

Pretty hard for Cottrell to be fixed to a defensive forward role (on a Sheezel type) when he's expected to run his standard 15km up and down the ground, often filling in lanes that attacking HB's (like Sheezel) would be aiming for. I don't think opposition HB's have given us grief thus far, but like you said, we shouldnt take anything for granted.

Endurance runners effectively give us two players. They run 15km and give defensive support in defence, then run back as link men, and finally putting on forward pressure: Acres, Hollands, Hollands, Cottrell give us this advantage. I'd rather have one of the 2 small forwards in a defensive role against Sheezel type. So often the ball heads so quickly to forwardline we dont have crumbers present. Maybe the small can do both roles, rather than the running machines.

Moir is not a small forward. He's 6 foot 2 inches. He's more of a marking HF.

Kemp has been in good form. I prefer Marchbank but it would be savage to drop Kemp given Marchbank hasn't played in match conditions for a month.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:40 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Obvious Weitering to take Young's spot at FB.

Would have hoped Young could take the other KPD on a 200cm opponent, rather than Kemp. I'm not suggesting one has been better than the other. Just match ups.

At the very least, I hope Young is sub incase TDK gets injured or Weitering needs a chop out given he hasn't played since Jan 12.

I hate to think what happens if TDK is injured against Xerri. I can't help feel the need for insurance to cover ruck. Its not an easy position to fill.

We already have 190cm Kennedy playing the SOS role as 3rd tall/ruck. SOS is 194cm tall. We are short on rucks in the 23 without Young.

If Harry has to ruck to cover an injured TDK, I will spew.

Xerri goes in hard and chases ball and man. Loves to lead in with the knee.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 11:14 am 
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Craig Bradley

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kingkerna wrote:
Crusader wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
I don't get the push to drop Owies, from memory kicked the most goals of our small forwards last year, applies great pressure and is a very good set shot.

27 goals from 50 shots last year.

21 shots from general play and, according to the xScore figures, he’s in the bottom ten for medium, mid- and small forwards in the league.

xScore Ratings https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats.html?year=2023
Set Shot: 0.13
General Play: -0.73
Overall: -0.23

It’s just a statistic, but it suggests that he’s a reliable set shot (albeit from one of the lowest difficulty ratings), but an ordinary crumber.

It’s harsh, but if I ask myself ‘would we miss him?’, the answer is no… not while Fantasia is up and going. Owies’ best asset is between his ears & Fantasia has all of that and the bag of tricks.

For mine, our best forward group is going to be Curnow, McKay, Hollands, Cottrell, Motlop, Fantasia + Martin.

Fantasia isn't up and going. I'm not sure what xscore is, I just know he scored more goals than any other small forward for us.

Fantasia is playing isn’t he?

xScore is the expected score, represented as an average, for any given shot on goal.

- Given the actual score is 0, 1, or 6, the average is a value between 0 & 6.
- A 50% success rate would be an average score of 3.
- Although the average doesn’t take into account the type of kick, a large sample of opposite foot dribblers from 50m would bring the average down.
- The xScore data is broken down by set shots and general play.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:33 pm 
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Robert Walls

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bondiblue wrote:
Obvious Weitering to take Young's spot at FB.

Would have hoped Young could take the other KPD on a 200cm opponent, rather than Kemp. I'm not suggesting one has been better than the other. Just match ups.

At the very least, I hope Young is sub incase TDK gets injured or Weitering needs a chop out given he hasn't played since Jan 12.

I hate to think what happens if TDK is injured against Xerri. I can't help feel the need for insurance to cover ruck. Its not an easy position to fill.

We already have 190cm Kennedy playing the SOS role as 3rd tall/ruck. SOS is 194cm tall. We are short on rucks in the 23 without Young.

If Harry has to ruck to cover an injured TDK, I will spew.

Xerri goes in hard and chases ball and man. Loves to lead in with the knee.

One reason Kemp should remain in squad (incl the fact he has been on) is he has talent and could play in a number of positions ie if pushed out by Marchbank, place him as sub.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:31 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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I actually don’t mind the idea of leaving Young in for this one to play with Weitering. I know it won’t happen, but Weiters has had some challenges against the tall rangy athletic type forwards that like to play off and run and jump at the ball. Larkey and the King brothers have all got hold of him at times within games, if not for a whole game. He seems to worry about not being able to match their reach and leap and tries too hard to find body contact and takes his focus off the ball.

I wouldn’t mind Young to play a lock down role on Larkey and let Weiters play more of his intercepting role. Young also gives some insurance for Weitering coming off an 8 week injury, and a backup for TDK in the ruck


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 7:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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bondiblue wrote:
Braithy wrote:
Rocky Henderson wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Anyone thinking we're going well enough to leave out best 22 players is kidding themselves. It's nice to be 2-0 and have set our season up nicely, but let's be honest, we could very easily be 0-2.

Play your best team. Even if it means someone is unlucky to be dropped. Motlop and Martin are our most dangerous small/med forwards by a distance. They are both automatic selections when fit. I think E Hollands will be the same but I haven't really seen him play so I'll leave that to the side for now


This,
Owies and Durdin just aren't dangerous enough.

Hollands to be the high half forward and Cottrel the defensive forward..



agree owies and durdin aren't anything special as crumbing forwards or defensive pressure forwards. motlop offers more - and hopefully Moir is the small forward we've been craving since garlett and betts left.

fantasia will come out of the team only when martin is fit. the hope is that between fantasia and martin, one is at least fit.


not sure marchbank comes straight in ... knowing voss & how popular marchbank is with the playing group, he probably comes in at kemp's expense. hopefully not tho.

either way this friday we need to make a statement. much has been made that the coaching staff viewed this game as our opening round and trained for it with all that loading in the final weeks of preseason.

sydney, gws and port all look good. be great if we came out and dulled a bit of this all sydney/ interstate gf talk.


Motlop and Martin have x factor. Durdin, Fogarty and Owies are pressure small forwards. Agree we need more goals from our smalls.

Pretty hard for Cottrell to be fixed to a defensive forward role (on a Sheezel type) when he's expected to run his standard 15km up and down the ground, often filling in lanes that attacking HB's (like Sheezel) would be aiming for. I don't think opposition HB's have given us grief thus far, but like you said, we shouldnt take anything for granted.

Endurance runners effectively give us two players. They run 15km and give defensive support in defence, then run back as link men, and finally putting on forward pressure: Acres, Hollands, Hollands, Cottrell give us this advantage. I'd rather have one of the 2 small forwards in a defensive role against Sheezel type. So often the ball heads so quickly to forwardline we dont have crumbers present. Maybe the small can do both roles, rather than the running machines.

Moir is not a small forward. He's 6 foot 2 inches. He's more of a marking HF.

Kemp has been in good form. I prefer Marchbank but it would be savage to drop Kemp given Marchbank hasn't played in match conditions for a month.



is he really? he looks tiny.

kemp would be stiff to miss out, and imo marchbank should come back through the two's. but maybe coming back against norf is okay too, considering the block of tough games we have coming up.

fogerty is our best forward pressure guy and maybe our best tackler in our team. in my eyes, he's so far ahead of durdin and owies in the role he brings.

i'm totally spun out about moir and his height.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:42 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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jake_h03 wrote:
I actually don’t mind the idea of leaving Young in for this one to play with Weitering. I know it won’t happen, but Weiters has had some challenges against the tall rangy athletic type forwards that like to play off and run and jump at the ball. Larkey and the King brothers have all got hold of him at times within games, if not for a whole game. He seems to worry about not being able to match their reach and leap and tries too hard to find body contact and takes his focus off the ball.

I wouldn’t mind Young to play a lock down role on Larkey and let Weiters play more of his intercepting role. Young also gives some insurance for Weitering coming off an 8 week injury, and a backup for TDK in the ruck


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Sensible .

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:34 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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CARLTON AFL player No.1238.

Elijah Hollands is confirmed to make his Navy Blue debut in the Good Friday SuperClash against North Melbourne.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:45 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jezzarules wrote:
CARLTON AFL player No.1238.

Elijah Hollands is confirmed to make his Navy Blue debut in the Good Friday SuperClash against North Melbourne.



As expected. He's fit and played both praccy games.
Came 4th, behind Ollie in the club time trials.
He's the type of physical player Vossy loves.
See his VFL GF BOG performance for proof.

Now for the decision on Young. Please don't go with TDK the lone ruck, with Kennedy giving chop out.

I'm sure Weiters will be the only other in and Marchy and Motlop will come through the VFL having missed so much footy.

This week, following 2 poor games, Vossy's chance to drop Fantasia. I'm expecting that too. Can't be seen to be showing favouritism, and 2 players have to make way.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:47 am 
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Fantasia v Cunningham

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:59 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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jezzarules wrote:
Fantasia v Cunningham



Based on output, Cuningham's defensive game has gone through the roof, providing plenty of support through the midfield.

Cuningham, based on form, easily.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:08 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Braithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Braithy wrote:
Rocky Henderson wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
Anyone thinking we're going well enough to leave out best 22 players is kidding themselves. It's nice to be 2-0 and have set our season up nicely, but let's be honest, we could very easily be 0-2.

Play your best team. Even if it means someone is unlucky to be dropped. Motlop and Martin are our most dangerous small/med forwards by a distance. They are both automatic selections when fit. I think E Hollands will be the same but I haven't really seen him play so I'll leave that to the side for now


This,
Owies and Durdin just aren't dangerous enough.

Hollands to be the high half forward and Cottrel the defensive forward..



agree owies and durdin aren't anything special as crumbing forwards or defensive pressure forwards. motlop offers more - and hopefully Moir is the small forward we've been craving since garlett and betts left.

fantasia will come out of the team only when martin is fit. the hope is that between fantasia and martin, one is at least fit.


not sure marchbank comes straight in ... knowing voss & how popular marchbank is with the playing group, he probably comes in at kemp's expense. hopefully not tho.

either way this friday we need to make a statement. much has been made that the coaching staff viewed this game as our opening round and trained for it with all that loading in the final weeks of preseason.

sydney, gws and port all look good. be great if we came out and dulled a bit of this all sydney/ interstate gf talk.


Motlop and Martin have x factor. Durdin, Fogarty and Owies are pressure small forwards. Agree we need more goals from our smalls.

Pretty hard for Cottrell to be fixed to a defensive forward role (on a Sheezel type) when he's expected to run his standard 15km up and down the ground, often filling in lanes that attacking HB's (like Sheezel) would be aiming for. I don't think opposition HB's have given us grief thus far, but like you said, we shouldnt take anything for granted.

Endurance runners effectively give us two players. They run 15km and give defensive support in defence, then run back as link men, and finally putting on forward pressure: Acres, Hollands, Hollands, Cottrell give us this advantage. I'd rather have one of the 2 small forwards in a defensive role against Sheezel type. So often the ball heads so quickly to forwardline we dont have crumbers present. Maybe the small can do both roles, rather than the running machines.

Moir is not a small forward. He's 6 foot 2 inches. He's more of a marking HF.

Kemp has been in good form. I prefer Marchbank but it would be savage to drop Kemp given Marchbank hasn't played in match conditions for a month.



is he really? he looks tiny.

kemp would be stiff to miss out, and imo marchbank should come back through the two's. but maybe coming back against norf is okay too, considering the block of tough games we have coming up.

fogerty is our best forward pressure guy and maybe our best tackler in our team. in my eyes, he's so far ahead of durdin and owies in the role he brings.

i'm totally spun out about moir and his height.


Tiny?

Have a look at the photos of him standing next to Kennedy and even Cripps. He needs filling out, but he's a good mark for a HF not a small. There's plenty of photos of him. Have a look at the footage of praccy game he played and kicked a couple goals. He's not short. He's taller than Martin. just. For all we know he's still growing because he's a young, turns 19yo next month.

Fogarty Owies and Durdin are all different to each other. I don't think we have seen Durdin at his best since 2022. He was the scariest tackler in the team according to his team mates. Super quick to close space and set upon the man with the ball.

I reckon when Durds is up and running he will quickly pass Fogarty. Everyone likes what Fog brings to the park, but he also has many limitations. Expect a changing of the guard during the year to see Motlop and Durdin as the 2 preferred smalls. He'll be back.

For now, its only round 3, and there's plenty of time to see peripheral players in the senior side, just like we have with Carroll. Moir to come no doubt. Wait till Monahan and Wilson find their feet.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:18 am 
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Craig Bradley
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jezzarules wrote:
CARLTON AFL player No.1238.

Elijah Hollands is confirmed to make his Navy Blue debut in the Good Friday SuperClash against North Melbourne.


Great news. He could be an absolute bargain pickup if he fulfils his potential. We could do with one of these after missing on so many early draft picks and getting stuff all for them at the trade table. SPS, Dow, O’Brien, Stocker, Philp have blown some serious assets with next to nothing in return, but Hollands could be one back the other way.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:20 am 
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Craig Bradley
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jezzarules wrote:
Fantasia v Cunningham


Cunners over Fantasia every day of the week. I really want to see him get some decent minutes on ball. I still believe there’s an A grade midfielder in there somewhere


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:35 am 
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Rod Ashman

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jake_h03 wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
CARLTON AFL player No.1238.

Elijah Hollands is confirmed to make his Navy Blue debut in the Good Friday SuperClash against North Melbourne.


Great news. He could be an absolute bargain pickup if he fulfils his potential. We could do with one of these after missing on so many early draft picks and getting stuff all for them at the trade table. SPS, Dow, O’Brien, Stocker, Philp have blown some serious assets with next to nothing in return, but Hollands could be one back the other way.


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So did Hawthorn with Beau Dowler, Beau Muston and Mitch Thorp. And then they won 4 flags…


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:20 am 
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Craig Bradley
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17th Premiership wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
CARLTON AFL player No.1238.

Elijah Hollands is confirmed to make his Navy Blue debut in the Good Friday SuperClash against North Melbourne.


Great news. He could be an absolute bargain pickup if he fulfils his potential. We could do with one of these after missing on so many early draft picks and getting stuff all for them at the trade table. SPS, Dow, O’Brien, Stocker, Philp have blown some serious assets with next to nothing in return, but Hollands could be one back the other way.


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So did Hawthorn with Beau Dowler, Beau Muston and Mitch Thorp. And then they won 4 flags…


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What’s your point? I’m not saying we can’t or won’t have success because of these picks, just pointing out that it would be nice to get one back the other way


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:21 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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bondiblue wrote:

Tiny?

Have a look at the photos of him standing next to Kennedy and even Cripps. He needs filling out, but he's a good mark for a HF not a small. There's plenty of photos of him. Have a look at the footage of praccy game he played and kicked a couple goals. He's not short. He's taller than Martin. just. For all we know he's still growing because he's a young, turns 19yo next month.

Fogarty Owies and Durdin are all different to each other. I don't think we have seen Durdin at his best since 2022. He was the scariest tackler in the team according to his team mates. Super quick to close space and set upon the man with the ball.

I reckon when Durds is up and running he will quickly pass Fogarty. Everyone likes what Fog brings to the park, but he also has many limitations. Expect a changing of the guard during the year to see Motlop and Durdin as the 2 preferred smalls. He'll be back.

For now, its only round 3, and there's plenty of time to see peripheral players in the senior side, just like we have with Carroll. Moir to come no doubt. Wait till Monahan and Wilson find their feet.



nah, durdin is a dud. dudin. he doesn't do anything really well. he's a depth guy at best.

forward depth chart:

Motlop, Fog, Owies, durdin
Martin, fantasia, moir
charlie, harry, tdk


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:08 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Rumours

In Holland Marchbank Weiters
Out ???

Motlop another week

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:23 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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jake_h03 wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
jezzarules wrote:
CARLTON AFL player No.1238.

Elijah Hollands is confirmed to make his Navy Blue debut in the Good Friday SuperClash against North Melbourne.


Great news. He could be an absolute bargain pickup if he fulfils his potential. We could do with one of these after missing on so many early draft picks and getting stuff all for them at the trade table. SPS, Dow, O’Brien, Stocker, Philp have blown some serious assets with next to nothing in return, but Hollands could be one back the other way.


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So did Hawthorn with Beau Dowler, Beau Muston and Mitch Thorp. And then they won 4 flags…


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What’s your point? I’m not saying we can’t or won’t have success because of these picks, just pointing out that it would be nice to get one back the other way


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Probably supporting your point more than anything - I agree that we stuffed up some picks (and/or our development was terrible). Just an observation that successful teams overcome bad picks/choices with good ones. We lucked out with the Weitering draft - Weitering was close to a sure thing although Schache turned out to be a dud at no.2, we could easily have lost Charlie with his injuries, Harry turned out great but many key forwards don’t, and even Cunningham is performing well. Cripps was an amazing win, given no-one else would have drafted him there. Then again, I doubt anyone else would have picked O’Brien where we did and we stuffed up the .stocker trade (but that was 1st year of live trading so I’m disappointed but to angry at that one). SPS and Dow are different - most other teams would have picked them around a similar mark.
Elijah Hollands for not much would definitely pull one back our way!


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Last edited by 17th Premiership on Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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